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Smileymike101 wrote:That would be awesome.Thawk is my worst matchup.Fucking turtle all day.Has DP and grab, so no way to get it.Gief i dont mind.St.fierce keeps him in his leash quite well.
But T.Hawk....grr...No dignity.

Hey, Imma maining T.hawk XD You know, other than EX DP, it has quite crappy invincibility. But who turtles with T.Hawk? O.o

Want to see the replay of the most turtling thawk ever?Remember the match between the 2 hondas, who sit there all the round, not even pushing a buton?He was worse then that.Low incincibility or high, it still antiairs pretty good, while i can't say the same stuff about my shitty ass dp.I have to safe jump that shit.While i can beat with meaty j.hk, the ex version beats my ass if i'm not safe jumping it.Though i am really learning the safe jump.Definetly worth it.It help me vs sagat, cammy ,and hawk and balrog a LOT (and against dan, but who plays dan lol).Option selecting thawks ass and blarog's.

classy.WMV

Some people ...

Maj wrote:classy.WMV

Some people ...

Wow that guy owns :O

I don't understand corners in this damn game. Obviously fireball combos benefit from corners because corners nullify projectile pushback. But why would physical attack strings randomly cause less pushback in the corner?

I don't even think it's all physical attacks. Feels like only certain ones cause less reflected pushback in the corner than they do midscreen, but i can't spot any rhyme or reason to it. Some combos just arbitrarily work better in the corner. Pretty lame.

Something that randomly bugged me was how pushing some one against the "wall" from midscreen would effect things. For example, backthrowing with Rose while midscreen would throw them a much shorter distance because they would grind the "wall" (hitting the edge while midscreen), but backthrowing them out of the corner would throw them a much greater distance simply because there as no wall to slow them down. The only "true" midscreen is when you start with your back to the actual corner, one of the follies of 2.5D, I guess.

Fortunately that doesn't come up too often unless you're dealing with something that causes drastic knockback. The difference is very pronounced with certain throws like Dudley's backward throw and Cody's forward throw. But it generally doesn't factor into ground pushback, thankfully. Although that fake wall does mess with teleport distances, especially backward teleports that are supposed to go full screen.

Speaking of Dudley's throws, his forward throw is actually kinda funny. Makes Gief curl up into a little ball.

Why didn't the developers just have it so that when Rose (as an example) does her back throw, she gets pushed further away from the corner? It might look kinda silly as she would be sliding as she flips the character over her head, but isn't that how they do it with regular pushback, i.e. a heavy hit causes the opponent to reel back pretty far, unless their back is to the wall, in which case the attacker is pushed away from the opponent?

*edit* reread this bit

because they would grind the "wall"

- shouldn't the screen scroll with the action the same way it does in 2d sprite games?

onReload wrote:*edit* reread this bit

because they would grind the "wall"

- shouldn't the screen scroll with the action the same way it does in 2d sprite games?

It's a camera thing I think. Because the camera pans really slow in S/SF4. When Rose backthrows midscreen the opponent connects with a midscreen wall that slows them down a lot (compare to when the opponents back is to a real corner).

In 2D sprite games the camera doesn't pan nearly that slowly, usually if you connect with an invisible wall midscreen the screen pans/zooms really fast until it's maxed, sometimes you don't even touch it and other times it doesn't matter if you touch it or not. It only becomes a wall when the zoom/pan is at the limit and both characters are fully apart.

I could be wrong though, but I really can't think of any other game where the camera pans/zooms so slowly as to create a wall BEFORE both characters are on opposite ends of the playing field.

Huh, so some close-range combos with wallbounce might end up not necessarily being corner only. I can't think of an example off-hand

The panning is the secondary issue. Zooming is the primary one. When you're standing next to someone in SF4, the screen is smaller than when you're standing at maximum range. When you have a move that's designed to knock someone back that maximum distance, the phantom wall gets in the way when the camera can't zoom out fast enough.

In Rose's case, she doesn't cause max distance knockback but there's less space behind her than there is in front of her. Her backward throw causes problems because she swings them fast into less space.

That's the other thing. This problem doesn't come up with most moves - just the ones where the opponent darts in one direction or the other. For example, Rose's MP reflect causes a lot of knockback but it's like floaty knockback, so the wall has time get out of the way. Then you've got moves with sustained spinny knockback like Ryu/Akuma EX Hurricane Kicks, where even if they do run into a wall, they keep going until they stretch out the screen.

Wall bounce is another problem area because they bounce as soon as they touch the wall, so basically every wall bounce move puts the opponent closer to you if you do it midscreen than if you do it with your back to the corner. In fact, doing Denjin ultra with Gouken in the corner putting Ryu right next to him slams Ryu into the ground facing the wrong way without even bouncing back.

In summary, hellafast throws cause problems midscreen. Wall bounce moves cause problems. Most everything else is fine.

It's a minor nitpick. If anything it benefits Rose since you wouldn't throw an opponent out of the corner. And the ghost-wall keeps them close enough midscreen so that you could get okizeme off it, whereas without the wall they are too far away to capitalize. But it's still a nitpick of mine because I don't like it (for no particular reason).

Alright that SSF4 damage challenge we talked about is up now. I probably won't do anything else until after Evo.

Maj, you forgot to ban Maskless Vega

Hm? I never wanted to ban maskless Vega, i just wanted it to be clearer that he needs 950 damage. But i didn't want to make the rules more rigid and i didn't want to add another sentence so i'm hoping people will have it figured out this time.

I was trying to work a way to do this with Rose, but her Super works in a really sucky way

first 4 hits cause stun

final hit causes JP 6 (Or above) which basically means the only move that hits is Soul Sat & SS will only sustain, it won't reset.

Her projectiles do low stun, all of them, her Soul spiral is low stun, her HP Soul reflect does measley damage & low stun & her Soul throw is also low stun. you can increase this with absorption but it's still below minimal. Perhaps it's not possible... i thought she stood a chance with her powered up Super (408) but because the last hit does the beefy damage, you can't bypass that through whatever method without degrading the strongest part of the move.

Mind you Ryu's Super/Ultra shares the same mechanic, if you hit a standing character they will be uncomboable. (Which is why if you trade Ultra go for LP SRK -> Super (Cancel) for max damage.

Maj wrote:Hm? I never wanted to ban maskless Vega, i just wanted it to be clearer that he needs 950 damage. But i didn't want to make the rules more rigid and i didn't want to add another sentence so i'm hoping people will have it figured out this time.

Yeah, I confused it with the 600+ damage thing with ELF and Gief, where it actually mattered

Gah, I noticed that my Gouken solution is extremely similar to a combo in Your day five CV D: The difference is that you used HK tatsu instead of HP facepalm, which made Viper die on the first hit of EX tatsu instead of the last one.

No worries, i'm not keeping track. As long as it's different from a previously submitted solution, it's cool with me. It was nice to start off with a Versus Mode solution too. They really do look much nicer than Training Mode.

Damn, worked out a Shinku combo for Sakura but it does 697 (699 with Haru)... Figured out away to squeeze that extra 3 points but for the love of god i'm not up for it >_<


Also, Maj they must've changed somethings stun rateing in Super because that combo you pulled in the TACV doesn't stun now. (gets to 729) it's a real shame because her HK Tatsu does great damage for a non EX Special

all srks where nerphed in damage and stun, even Sakura's for some reason

starting with a counter hit j. hp might be better then starting with the hadou.

something like
ch j.hp, cl.hp, lk.tatsu, c.hp, ex,tatsu, cl. hk
should stun seth in the same number of hits

error1 wrote:all srks where nerphed in damage and stun, even Sakura's for some reason

starting with a counter hit j. hp might be better then starting with the hadou.

something like
ch j.hp, cl.hp, lk.tatsu, c.hp, ex,tatsu, cl. hk
should stun seth in the same number of hits

Doesn't do the same damage though, starting with HP HAdou does 150/188 on counterhit, then i get the jump in of 100/200. Despite her fantastic basic damage output, it's really hard for her to break that 700 counter.

I could potentially do a projectile start whilst Seth is in dizzy, however to get spacing down for that it's rock hard, i don't have the tools to do those crazy starting points Maj uses, so it's a corner combo.

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I also need a new recording device, i really can't play well in standard quality now, having played in HD for to long. Are there DVD players that record HD TV? even if it downscales? (Probably not the best thread to ask)

meaty full hadoken when he wakes up when dizzy into a dash or jump in shouldn't be too hard.

Doopliss wrote:meaty full hadoken when he wakes up when dizzy into a dash or jump in shouldn't be too hard.

You'd think so wouldn't you think manually timing a Charged Hadou to hit on it's last frame after an EX SRK -> Dizzy, including having the positioning to jump in deep (So the remainder of the combo can hit fully)

is easy... Be my guest

Yeah i'm pretty sure she doesn't have time to jump if you start in the corner and have to walk back for meaty FB positioning. I figured the combo would have to be different in SSF4, but i thought the ability to juggle ultra2 after DP would allow her to reach 700 with a relatively simple combo. I admit i haven't done much experimenting with Sakura in SSF4 though. She's not exactly one of my favorite characters.

There's gotta be easier ones that haven't been done yet. I'm surprised Akuma doesn't have one. He got way over 700 in SF4. And i know Ibuki has one. What about Dan? He did decent damage before and he has a juggle ultra now.

Maj wrote:Yeah i'm pretty sure she doesn't have time to jump if you start in the corner and have to walk back for meaty FB positioning. I figured the combo would have to be different in SSF4, but i thought the ability to juggle ultra2 after DP would allow her to reach 700 with a relatively simple combo. I admit i haven't done much experimenting with Sakura in SSF4 though. She's not exactly one of my favorite characters.

There's gotta be easier ones that haven't been done yet. I'm surprised Akuma doesn't have one. He got way over 700 in SF4. And i know Ibuki has one. What about Dan? He did decent damage before and he has a juggle ultra now.

problem with Akuma is all his combos ended with a Dizzy -> UIltra... his winning factor was the fact that he could do heavy stun with multiple heavy hits, the main reason he's lost his ability to do this now is because they've really cut up his Shaku, 99 damage for the HP version with minimal stun, or high stun for the LP version with shit damage.

might be poosible though