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Maj wrote:More random numbers ...

counterhit j.HP, s.HK xx super, s.HP xx lvl2 MP dashpunch (Seth dizzy), ultra1 = 688 damage
counterhit j.HP, s.HK xx super, s.HP xx lvl2 MP dashpunch (Seth dizzy), meaty lvl3 HP dashpunch, ultra1 = 715 damage (whoo!)

Yeah i think this is all she's got. Anyway i'm done with this. On the plus side, it is midscreen which is nice.

meaty lvl.3 HP Dash punch?

Fully charged Dash Punch (the one that knocks down and does the most damage) and it hits him late, as he's standing up from the Dizzy.

Played a bit of Super today...Makoto is, yeah uh...kinda simple. Only thing I found (that isn't that remarkable) was DudleyRose interrupting her Oroshi, but it pushes them a bit far away. Might combo into U2 though, but 2 moves is a bit boring. I would find it nostalgic of 3s though ;B. (Gonna play with this in a bit.)

Any thoughts on rejump combos? i.e. jump in, jump back up, normal cancel into Tsurugi (air axe kick) then continue the combo?

onReload wrote:Fully charged Dash Punch (the one that knocks down and does the most damage) and it hits him late, as he's standing up from the Dizzy.

Huh, does that cause float knockdown?

Doopliss wrote:

onReload wrote:Fully charged Dash Punch (the one that knocks down and does the most damage) and it hits him late, as he's standing up from the Dizzy.

Huh, does that cause float knockdown?

yeah, that was the first thing that came to my mind too

Btw this didn't work, obviously:

Maj wrote:I think the theoretical best ultra2 juggle combo is lvl3 Focus Attack (trade), lvl3 Focus Attack xx dash, ultra2 xx dash, HP uppunch, HP uppunch, EX dashpunch, EX axekick.

Just takes too long, even with FADC. It looked a few frames off, at least.

Also i tested what i mentioned earlier and ultra2 doesn't preserve the free juggle state when it connects after anti-air lvl3 Focus Attack.

Pokey86 wrote:

Doopliss wrote:

onReload wrote:Fully charged Dash Punch (the one that knocks down and does the most damage) and it hits him late, as he's standing up from the Dizzy.

Huh, does that cause float knockdown?

yeah, that was the first thing that came to my mind too

yeah never mind on the knock down punch...i thought that's what Maj meant......

so maj what the heck is a Lvl. 3 dash punch then?

It goes up to five levels - lvl4 and lvl5 knock down, so lvl3 is the highest you can go if you want to combo into ultra1.

Oh wow, it's kind of funny it has to be charged and meaty for her to even link Hayate->Seichusen (u1). I guess I hadn't realized they nerfed the advantage off Hayate and the startup on Seichusen. Actually, just glancing at her framedata, I guess they were specifically trying to avoid letting her land U1 off a non-meaty without fadc/super, huh. Oh well, I still can't feel sorry for her.

Deejay's backdash is inv on frames 17-27? So he doesn't have startup inv on it, but it's inv during it's ground recovery? wtf, that seems weird.

[edit]: snip - nvm. Yeah they really were careful about u1 links.

Maj wrote:Non-counterhit s.HP xx dashpunch cancel gives +5 because she can link into s.MP but not s.HP. I'm surprised they were that careful because dashpunch cancel doesn't move her forward at all.

Makoto's normals seem to have an unusual amount of active frames, her s.mp for example has 7 compared to most normals that have 2-4. Shouldn't be too hard to land a meaty s.mp into ultra mid combo

It might be possible but it won't be easy either. Mid-combo meaty setups are more about quick startup time on the attack you're trying to land meaty rather than its active period. You'd need Makoto's s.MP to connect after like the 3rd active frame, which means after the 8th frame total. She has nothing above +5 on her sheet. On top of that it's not a friendly hitbox because it hits both high and mid. At least with Cammy's c.HP she hits high, so you could find a couple characters that leaned their head back. It's gonna take more work to find a suitable dummy for Makoto and then she probably won't be able to meaty s.MP off anything except a jump attack.

Speaking of limited combo options, I looked at Hakan yesterday. He makes Makoto look like a KI character.

Yup, not interesting at all. There are a lot more boring combo characters in SSF4 than there were in SF4. Although part of that is because a lot of the returning ones got nothing comboable. Like i wasn't gonna bother doing a Honda combo except i like the way his new ultra looks and someone requested this: j.hp, c.lp EXhhs, c.lp, EXHHS, c.lp, EXhhs, c.lp, EXhhs, c.lp H.hhs, s.hk

Btw Makoto can cancel ultra2 uppunch even if it whiffs. Totally useless for combos but might look funny in a randomness vid if you use backdash to escape a super or something.

Have you experimented with using Hakan's EX oil shower projectile invincibility to create weird meaty projectile hits (on Hakan as the dummy)? It might allow some sort of set-up(s) that are otherwise impossible with a standard wake-up meaty. It's also immune to some number of other special attacks with projectile-like properties, such as M.Vegason's psycho crusher and Viper's air flame kicks. Shrug.

If you're looking to do something with Sagats Angry scar, you could add Sagats Kill combo on Seth, though whether you consider it legitimate is, i guess opinion based. (As it uses 5 EX bars)

I'm sure the combo is easy enough to guess, but it's worth noting it kills Seth

NJ.HP [CH] -> HP SRK (scarred) -> FADC -> A Scar -> EX SRK -> Ultra

works out to about 760 damage. Without scar for the first SRK i think it's 680. That said because of all the damage limitations there really arn't many killer combos these days.

Imo it's legit to do a scar before starting the combo, as it's possible in a real match.

Doopliss wrote:Imo it's legit to do a scar before starting the combo, as it's possible in a real match.

That's my view.

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Though i know it's apparently possible to Ultra after EX upper (grounded) against everyone, but is it "really" possible VS Seth... i mean i must have tried 20 times & i didn't nail it, had one go on Sakura & i hit it.

I wanted to do an Angry Scar combo in Challenge Mode but it's annoyingly restrictive.

Sagat's Level 24 Trial wrote:Crouch M Punch
Low Tiger Shot
EX Focus Cancel
Crouch M Punch
Crouch L Punch
H Tiger Uppercut
EX Focus Cancel
Tiger Cannon

It would've been dope to do Angry Scar, j.HK, c.MP, blah xx LK FB xx lvl2 EX Focus Attack xx dash forward, c.MP, c.LP, blah xx LK Tiger Knee, HP DP xx FADC, ultra2 but of course they had to put that stupid low jab in there. Nothing links out of it and he can only set up meaty LK Tiger Knee with c.MP or s.HK against standing Dan. Anyway i lost an hour trying to make this work but it just wasn't happening.

CPS2 wrote:Just had an idea for a combo, not sure if this is in videos yet. With Juri:

cr.LK, st.LK, cr.MP xx MK pinwheel xx FADC, cl.LK, cr.MP xx MK pinwheel xx FADC, cl.LK, cr.MP, release HK fireball, j.MP, dive kick, ultra2

Btw sorry for not recording this. Just didn't have time. The biggest problem with her is she's of the best dizzy characters in the game, in the sense that you can use all your meter to get someone dizzy and then still have something special for the post-dizzy combo, because you get to restore your fireballs. She can also activate ultra1 and do a custom after the dizzy. But that kinda crap takes forever to research and it's too early anyway. It's better to let the Juri players figure her out and then find an unexplored niche once almost everything is known. She's definitely cooler than my first impression of her but i still don't care enough about her to do all the groundwork myself.

Also i meant to record some choreographed exchanges for Day Twenty-One, but ran out of time so i stuck with combos instead. Programming that stuff is way too time-consuming, so i never got past random ideas in notepad. Like i wanted to have Cammy divekick into Abel's armor cancel ultra1, then use her counter ultra. Stuff like that; slightly longer but not whole matches. Anyway i guess i can always do it after Evo unless someone (hopefully) does it first.

No worries, I'll give it a shot once my microcontroller thing arrives and all that, shouldn't be too long now (ordered a week ago or something).

Great series tho man Very insane concept and it must be a relief to have completed it

if anyone can end a Guile combo with something like FA, Sunglasses, Sonic Hurricane for the K.O. they win the style competition of my heart. i don't think glasses can be in any interesting combos, right? does it preserve your down charge, i.e. would Guile High Kick, Sunglasses, Flash Kick be possible?

i know it's stupid but i'm surprised i haven't seen it used in the middle of combos yet.

Just want to say huge well done for getting through this man. There was some great stuff in every single vid.

Just read your write up about combo prospects. I think they're removing guys throwableness in a patch next month, along with fei's loop and a bunch of other stuff. Effectively putting a deadline on any of those combos, unless you want to avoid the patch and do SSF4.0 vids, lol.

Hm, is there a confirmed list of changes? I saw something posted on SRK but it didn't mention much combo-wise outside of the Fei infinite.

http://www.capcom.co.jp/blog/sf4/saikyo ... _2239.html

3rd yellow headline down (it's in japanese though).

Ah okay, i think i found a translation on HVO:

Jigsaw wrote:Today's blog update details some changes that will be made in the patch to be released June 15th.

-Fei Long's Rekkuukyaku infinite will be removed
-Unblockable ultras will be removed
-Guy will no longer be throwable in hitstun
-Ibuki's wakeup invincibility will no longer be longer than it should be
-Ibuki's Tsumuji will combo properly on a crouching Chun-Li
-Dictator will take proper counter hit damage (instead of less) when hit out of Ultra 2
-Sagat's Angry Charge will work properly with negative edge EX Tiger Uppercut

Only change that sucks is taking out Guy's throw vulnerability. Everything else is positive. Also i hope they fix Ibuki's Tsumuji by making its hitbox bigger, not by messing with Chun Li's crouching hitbox and making her less useful as a combo dummy.

I'm afraid they might just make chun li suck as a dummy.And quick, gotta exploit guy's weakness while it's still there.

lol sad, the only combos i can thinkof against crouch guy is Fireball -> Super raging demon & Fireball Ultra raging demon.

Lol at getting rid of unblockable ultras. Was it really that gamebreaking?

I'm sure fixing unblockable ultras wil fuck SOMETHING up.Like no longer being able to do one frames, or being able to block ultras even in combos into them or something ridiculous like that.You'll se.I mean, to do that, they must drastically change something about how ultras and/or blocking works, so expect fuck ups.They'll release another patch to fix the bug they created.I bet.

I'm worried for 0 frame grab ultras, maybe you are able to jump out of them or do a reversal or something ebcause of this.

That would be awesome.Thawk is my worst matchup.Fucking turtle all day.Has DP and grab, so no way to get it.Gief i dont mind.St.fierce keeps him in his leash quite well.
But T.Hawk....grr...No dignity.