SF4 Combo Engine Investigation

[oKutabareo]

Can someone help me confirm if Gief's Stand Far Roundhouse has enough recovery frames to allow a Jab or a Short link afterwards? I swore I did it once.

[error1]

it can combo but you need to hit meaty. +2 frames on hit 4 active frames. So if it hits on it's last frame it can link to lk, lp, mp, c. lk or c. lp provided your close enough. c.lk is your fastest move by a frame.

[Dark_Chaotix]

you want an example of sfa3 crouch canceling?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHZxQYpVhyc#t=1m05s

Oh wow, you know I have this vid and i didnt realise that Xenozip was the actually creator of it. Hahaha, nice nice.

I see now the crouch into jump. I didnt notice that before. Thanks.

[Xenozip.]

I don't like that old vid. I like these better: http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=116591

[Doopliss]

I've experimented a little with Seths hyakuretsukyaku trade glitch, using Akumas air fireball to trade. If you hit akuma on the ground, you can combo him normally like he was stunned or something, even when he is falling to the ground. If you hit Akuma in the air however, when you hit him, he appears to react as if he were on the ground, but actually, he is in the air, so any attack that doesn't juggle puts him in an invurneble state until he is out of hit stun, while things like j.d.MK x3 still works, but he stands on the ground throughout the entire thing. What's really weird is that you can still grab him in this state.

[onReload]

I've experimented a little with Seths hyakuretsukyaku trade glitch, using Akumas air fireball to trade. If you hit akuma on the ground, you can combo him normally like he was stunned or something, even when he is falling to the ground. If you hit Akuma in the air however, when you hit him, he appears to react as if he were on the ground, but actually, he is in the air, so any attack that doesn't juggle puts him in an invurneble state until he is out of hit stun, while things like j.d.MK x3 still works, but he stands on the ground throughout the entire thing. What's really weird is that you can still grab him in this state.

That is bizarre...You mean like...a grab from the ground will get him even though he was hit in the air? Can you SPD?

Also, Maj: did you ever get Fei-Long's Ultra to connect three hits off a juggle? I imagine you did, but I could only get punches 1 and 3 to connect, I just got 1, 3, and 5...just needed a nicer corner setup. Were you saying that you think that if punch 2 or 4 connects, he'll do the movie poster ender?

[Maj]

Yeah i've gotten 1/3/5 to juggle but never 2 or 4. Those two aren't interested in juggling whatsoever, not even off an anti-air lvl3 Focus Attack.

[onReload]

Yeah i've gotten 1/3/5 to juggle but never 2 or 4. Those two aren't interested in juggling whatsoever, not even off an anti-air lvl3 Focus Attack.

Hmm. Here's to hoping that if we do ever get them to juggle, they actually finish the Ultra. It would be a big upset to just have Fei smack the opponent again...

[Doopliss]

I've experimented a little with Seths hyakuretsukyaku trade glitch, using Akumas air fireball to trade. If you hit akuma on the ground, you can combo him normally like he was stunned or something, even when he is falling to the ground. If you hit Akuma in the air however, when you hit him, he appears to react as if he were on the ground, but actually, he is in the air, so any attack that doesn't juggle puts him in an invurneble state until he is out of hit stun, while things like j.d.MK x3 still works, but he stands on the ground throughout the entire thing. What's really weird is that you can still grab him in this state.

That is bizarre...You mean like...a grab from the ground will get him even though he was hit in the air? Can you SPD?

I guess, I only tried normal throw. Akuma is in a weird state where attacks affect him as if he was in the air state-wise, but as if he was on the ground animation-wise.

[Xenozip.]

Hmm I think I've encountered something of the sort in SF3.

Ibuki's DP and RDP moves have some startup before she leaves the ground. During this time she can be thrown/grabbed as if she was on the ground, and also super cancel into ground supers. However, if she is hit by a normal attack she's popped up into air reset as if she was in an air-state, even on the first frame (well before leaving the ground).

Probably not the same thing as what's happening in SF4, but the result is the same. They are technically on the ground but normal hits pop them up.

[Doopliss]

Hmm I think I've encountered something of the sort in SF3.

Ibuki's DP and RDP moves have some startup before she leaves the ground. During this time she can be thrown/grabbed as if she was on the ground, and also super cancel into ground supers. However, if she is hit by a normal attack she's popped up into air reset as if she was in an air-state, even on the first frame (well before leaving the ground).

Probably not the same thing as what's happening in SF4, but the result is the same. They are technically on the ground but normal hits pop them up.

Yeah, this SF4 thing is a trade glitch, so it's very weird. If you FA him after you catch him in the air, he crumples, but you can't hit him with moves that don't juggle during the crumple.

[Maj]

Look like Daigo knew what he was doing, you can't always do it as a reversal because sometimes you will get up before the last hit of the super dissipates and you'll wake up with a dp instead. It's much harder to hit with in the corner.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NNBYNL5I

Sometimes you're knocked over to the other side of chun, I wonder if it's possible to do the ultra going in the opposite direction as the super.

Hey someone just emailed me a "challenge" asking if i could make that combo connect. Maybe you should upload this clip to u2b and post it as a video response to the match video. I think it would get a lot of views.

Btw what's really crazy is Daigo was actually going for that combo. He option selected the super and everything.

[error1]

alright
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yockG3uTqd0
yah he totally baited that sbk, no question he's done that combo before.

[Maj]

Cool, thanks, i sent him the link.

[error1]

decided to see how many hits of hands E. Honda could get, this is what I came up with
50 hits
599 damage
723 stun
http://www.filefront.com/14971687/hondahands.mkv/
What's funny is this does more damage if you drop the combo after the 35th hit and your opponent is forced to block the rest.

[error1]

I figured out I can get a couple more hits if I switch to standing Seth, hp hands -> hp hands seems unfair but it deals less damage then hk.
I think
j.hk counter hit -> ex hands -> c. lp -> hp hands -> ex hands -> c. lp -> ex hands -> c. lp -> ex hands -> c. lp -> hp hands
might build up enough meter for another ex hands and possibly be able to dizzy Seth, but I'm having trouble scripting it

http://www.filefront.com/14975571/hondahands2.mkv/

[Doopliss]

I really don't think that that would build enough meter. I don't know a single combo that does (and utilizes it), and from what I know, EX moves doesn't build meter.

[error1]

ex doesn't build any but hp hands builds meter like crazy. Akuma can very easily go through 5 ex. I think most characters who can start a combo with an ex can manage an extra bar.

[Xenozip.]

Yeah, I would think it'd be rather easy for Akuma and Fuerte, at least. Good luck building a bar with Rose, lol.

[Maj]

Meter building scales down a lot during combos. I haven't seen the formula listed anywhere but i wouldn't be surprised if it was the same percentage reduction scale as damage.

[Doopliss]

Meter building scales down a lot during combos. I haven't seen the formula listed anywhere but i wouldn't be surprised if it was the same percentage reduction scale as damage.

Exactly my thought. And if so, you have HP hands at 70% and on 10%, which is less in total than just HP hands alone.

[onReload]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVOBzT_4CYQ

Christ, Abel's Tornado Throw from his dash-canceled f+mk beating all of Zangief's throws except his Ultra. The super one is just weird.

[Xenozip.]

I think the SRK wiki said that Tornado Throw is throw-invulnerable, so yeah he can't be thrown during it. And his f+MK->front-step is +1 on block +4 on hit.

[onReload]

I think the SRK wiki said that Tornado Throw is throw-invulnerable, so yeah he can't be thrown during it. And his f+MK->front-step is +1 on block +4 on hit.

I would have figured the Superfreeze of SPD had invincibility frames, but I guess only during the freeze? I don't know much about all that stuff.

[error1]

both the super or ultra have 1 frame invincibility but they have 0 frames start up and two active frames. If your wondering why the ultra beat tornado throw at the end it's because tornado throw can't be thrown for 6 frames and has 5 frame startup so if you activate the ultra exactly five frames after the tornado throw throw starts there is a 1 frame window where Zangief wins. A perfectly timed ex spd should win as well.

[error1]

so frustrating
I had some time this morning so I was trying hitting Dhalsim's j.lp with the second hit of Goukens ex srk and knocking him way up in the air but couldn't really figure out a good way to follow up other then juggle with a bunch of fireballs or lv 3 focus.
Then I got the idea of starting with an hp hadoken fdac and knocking sim into it off screen. Even though it probably won't work I didn't have time to test it and now am stuck thinking about it for the next 10 hours.

[Doopliss]

so frustrating
I had some time this morning so I was trying hitting Dhalsim's j.lp with the second hit of Goukens ex srk and knocking him way up in the air but couldn't really figure out a good way to follow up other then juggle with a bunch of fireballs or lv 3 focus.
Then I got the idea of starting with an hp hadoken fdac and knocking sim into it off screen. Even though it probably won't work I didn't have time to test it and now am stuck thinking about it for the next 10 hours.

I know how you feel, sometimes I think of stuff when I'm going to sleep, and that's not funny at all XD But seriously, you comboed into lvl 3 FA? I have to look into that later

[error1]

http://www.filefront.com/15019897/long- ... super.mkv/
this is what I was talking about before with fei longs ultra, been meaning to put it in a combo

[Xenozip.]

Hmm well thinking of Rose. I know it's possible for her LP Reflect to hit the opponent and absorb a fireball at the same time. Perhaps it's possible to do something with a MP or HP reflect, where you hit the dummy and reflect at the same time and them combo after?

Also regarding rose, her c.HP forces the opponent into a standing position. I wonder if there's any combo that is only possible when forced from a crouch to a stand by her (or any other) move. I know such things exist in other games but I thought it was funny her c.HP did that.

I really can't even think of a reason for it to do that except maybe that the opponent's crouching hitstun hitbox is different from the opponent's standing hitstun hitbox (eg. you're wider while crouching than standing while being hit?). It seems entirely useless, but I fancy it being applicable to anything.. a challenge, perhaps!

[Doopliss]

Hmm well thinking of Rose. I know it's possible for her LP Reflect to hit the opponent and absorb a fireball at the same time. Perhaps it's possible to do something with a MP or HP reflect, where you hit the dummy and reflect at the same time and them combo after?

At least I can't get this to work, I guess they removed the possibility for some reason. Try EX reflect on Ryus EX hadouken, that should work if anything.

Btw, did you guys know that you can do s.HK -> c/s.LP with Abel on crouching opponents?