How could we determine whether CCC2 ST has input lag?

Xenozip. · Post by **Xenozip.** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:58 pm

Actually, the game didn't stop moving visually, either. It's deceptive because Dhalsim is just chillin there with his opponent's head in his hands. And also deceptive because the screen on the right has very clear scanlines that are moving per frame. However if you look at the screen on the left very closely you can see it also animate.

There is a horizontal black "chunk" which is a visual thing that happens when you record a TV with a camera that moves vertically upwards on the screen per frame. It's a very thin horizontal bar at the top of the screen. The timer also moves on the last frame. I forget what to call the black chunk (I want to call it a scanline chunk, but I'm probably very incorrect).

Maj · Post by **Maj** » Mon Dec 10, 2007 11:08 pm

Four frames of input lag in arcade ST presents a big problem, doesn't it? That means it's not simply a matter of reducing delay as much as possible. They'd actually have to match the delay with arcade ST in order to truly recreate an arcade-perfect experience. When you consider that different televisions react differently to console output, it might be even more challenging to ensure that the lag is consistent across all possible display devices.

It's lame that neither Digital Eclipse nor Capcom ever bothered testing CCC2 against arcade ST during development, but at the same time i feel sorry for them that they have to deal with this shit in the first place.

desk · Post by **desk** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 1:24 am

I realise this is all well and good after it has already been proven but... I just fired up CCC2 to try ST out (for the 2nd time ever) and the input lag is blatant, like, I can't believe anyone would dispute it. Especially, playing it after recently playing hyper or proper ST. I'm really confused about the whole affair now.

NKI · Post by **NKI** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:22 am

Maj wrote:Four frames of input lag in arcade ST presents a big problem, doesn't it?

Shrug...I dunno, every version of ST before CCC2 managed to get it right (or pretty much right, in the case of Dreamcast), so I'm guessing it's not such a big deal...

desk wrote:I realise this is all well and good after it has already been proven but... I just fired up CCC2 to try ST out (for the 2nd time ever) and the input lag is blatant, like, I can't believe anyone would dispute it.

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread. ... ost4492648

desk · Post by **desk** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:53 pm

hmm, I can only assume people didn't actually play it and are just relying on sirlin... or they did and they're mental, I just can't explain it. I would have thought nohoho would be one of the first to acknowledge too, again though, maybe he was just blindly agreeing with someone who 'should' know. Very odd.

I'm glad the video is out there now though, so people can see how it actually is. 2 things though, You mentioned the game has weird random lag, did you omit that from the vid just so you didn't complicate matters or did you discover it was only on certain stages or something? also, have you had any feedback from sirlin on the video?

thanks

NKI · Post by **NKI** » Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:29 pm

The "weird random lag" was so rare and so insignificant, it would have made things unnecessarily complicated. The input delay for all the games I tested consistently had a 2-frame window, with one of the two numbers occurring more often than the other. For example, arcade ST always had a 4 or 5 frame delay, with 4 being more common. Dreamcast ST always had a 5 or 6 frame delay, with 5 being more common. CCC2 was always 7 or 8 frames, with 8 being more common. However, there was once (maybe twice?) out of my hundreds of trials where the delay was one frame outside of the standard two-frame window.

I have not talked to Sirlin since the video came out. I'm assuming he does not want to talk about it, considering that before the video was released, he said...

3 frames would have been noticed during the months leading up to Evolution (and by me). [...] I have been able to detect the difference between 1 and 0 frame input delay in some internal online tests. The most likely case is that there is no input delay at all