USF4 Combo Engine Investigation

[Doopliss]

I finally did it! Landed full super into u1 with Rolento, no trades.

[Last_Window]

Here's the stun combo. Very boring to watch but I couldn't find any other way to stun without doing it this way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Upg6gpmxz9g

It hits normally on crouching E. Honda and it completely whiffs on crouching Chun-Li. :/

How many stun does EX Aeolus Edge deal?

[Persona]

Here's the stun combo. Very boring to watch but I couldn't find any other way to stun without doing it this way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Upg6gpmxz9g

It hits normally on crouching E. Honda and it completely whiffs on crouching Chun-Li. :/

How many stun does EX Aeolus Edge deal?

It does 100 stun. I tried to change the last rep to her EX rekkas but Poison is too far.

Video is finished but sadly I don't have time to compress and upload it since I need to sleep early today and won't be around during the day on the following day.

Also one combo took me forever until I gave up on the FA level 3 hit trade and left that part out.

[Doopliss]

Here's my video. It contains some of the stuff I've mentioned in this thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLQp7-MAICw

[onReload]

via Reply to UltraDavid on Twitter:

Hugo Getting Double Headbutted

...as if Hugo players needed more things to sigh about

[onReload]

Here's my video. It contains some of the stuff I've mentioned in this thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLQp7-MAICw

Wow, EX Red Focus puts opponents into float status, even after they're airborne? That's...pretty awesome.

Anyway, great job! The most fun USF4 video to watch so far

[Doopliss]

Here's my video. It contains some of the stuff I've mentioned in this thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLQp7-MAICw

Wow, EX Red Focus puts opponents into float status, even after they're airborne? That's...pretty awesome.

Anyway, great job! The most fun USF4 video to watch so far

Nope, lv.1 EX Red Focus attacks act like normal lv.2 focus attacks on airhit. Hugo's has a unique animation on hit for some reason though. Thanks!

[anotak]

hey Dantarion uploaded ripped data here
http://watissf.dantarion.com/sfultradiff/json/

and the diffs between previous versions are here
http://watissf.dantarion.com/sfultradiff/

i know its a bit technical but it should let you spot all the actual changes instead of searching the hard way, and also be able to answer questions about juggle points and what not

[Ultima]

I have two questions:

1) Can someone confirm that you can't buffer the motion for Hugo's claps (any special move?) during the hitstop of another Clap. I keep trying to perform repeat Clap x N combos with SF3 timing, but when I do that, claps after the first one don't come out.

2) Is this something specific to Hugo and Hugo's claps, or something more general? I think I run into the same issue with Fei Long and his Rekkas, but I generally never played enough to confirm.

[Doopliss]

You can buffer during the hitstop. HP clap has 5 frames of recovery, you'd have to be extremely fast to do it otherwise. If nothing comes out, then you're pressing the button too soon. If you just dropped the input, then another normal would come out. You still have to time the button press after the recovery, but that's true for pretty much every link in this game. Claps do not cancel into each other, you link then.

[Doopliss]

Excellent, I just found an EX Zanku loop with Akuma that allows me to land 4 of them mid-combo.

[Ultima]

You can buffer during the hitstop. HP clap has 5 frames of recovery, you'd have to be extremely fast to do it otherwise. If nothing comes out, then you're pressing the button too soon. If you just dropped the input, then another normal would come out. You still have to time the button press after the recovery, but that's true for pretty much every link in this game. Claps do not cancel into each other, you link then.

I don't understand what I'm doing wrong then. Just to test things, I fired up 3S in emu and tried random clap strings. I use a continuous smooth motion of qcb + P, starting a motion for another QCB right as the first clap is connecting. and have no problems. The claps come out as expected, though they don't necessarily combo cause I'm not looking to combo them. When I do that in USFIV, if I don't pause momentarily after the clap connects, my second clap doesn't come out. I have to wait until after the clap connects to even begin the motion. To me it feels like there's a hidden recovery after the move connects where I'm not allowed to do the input for another clap (doesn't seem to affect normals; haven't tried anything else).

That "hidden recovery" seems to be in a lot of places, at least compared to previous games. Like how after Ultra Throw, Hugo is stuck in recovery for what seems like forever, whereas in 2I/3S he was allowed to move immediately after throwing the opponent. One of the many things I dislike about SFIV's engine.

[Doopliss]

You can buffer during the hitstop. HP clap has 5 frames of recovery, you'd have to be extremely fast to do it otherwise. If nothing comes out, then you're pressing the button too soon. If you just dropped the input, then another normal would come out. You still have to time the button press after the recovery, but that's true for pretty much every link in this game. Claps do not cancel into each other, you link then.

I don't understand what I'm doing wrong then. Just to test things, I fired up 3S in emu and tried random clap strings. I use a continuous smooth motion of qcb + P, starting a motion for another QCB right as the first clap is connecting. and have no problems. The claps come out as expected, though they don't necessarily combo cause I'm not looking to combo them. When I do that in USFIV, if I don't pause momentarily after the clap connects, my second clap doesn't come out. I have to wait until after the clap connects to even begin the motion. To me it feels like there's a hidden recovery after the move connects where I'm not allowed to do the input for another clap (doesn't seem to affect normals; haven't tried anything else).

That "hidden recovery" seems to be in a lot of places, at least compared to previous games. Like how after Ultra Throw, Hugo is stuck in recovery for what seems like forever, whereas in 2I/3S he was allowed to move immediately after throwing the opponent. One of the many things I dislike about SFIV's engine.

Hitstop eating up inputs is not something I've experienced at least.
UT having more recovery is hardly an engine issue

[onReload]

I hate that sluggishness too. Ken feels like that all-around, and with Akuma, landing LK tatsu, HK tatsu is strangely difficult in comparison to doing it in 3S

[Maj]

This is totally random and useless, but i think the second active frame of T.Hawk's EX DP doesn't have any hit pause. Maybe they moved the hitbox and forgot to add it back in?

[Doopliss]

This is totally random and useless, but i think the second active frame of T.Hawk's EX DP doesn't have any hit pause. Maybe they moved the hitbox and forgot to add it back in?

They said they fixed some glitch where the first hit would do 0 damage on FADC sometimes, maybe this happened as a result of that fix. To be frank, the other fixes I've seen them do have not been very thorough. Stuff like "negating" a change by changing something else to bring it back to original status, which then affects other properties of the move (Like EX RCF having 2 more frames of hitstun on hit and 2f more recovery), forgetting to change counterhit data on A LOT of moves, and misplaced flags, allowing Gen's post-super U2 to be cancelled into from prejump frames (Which means you can do crane c.LK or Oga to Full U2 as long as you end the motion with up).

[HarlequinRogue]

Question: is this combo possible in Ultra (with Huge?)
http://youtu.be/NeCUD3J2ypw?t=1m1s

[Doopliss]

I doubt it, instant j.d.MKs send you very high, so I don't think you'll have enough time to do something like this. I'll give it a shot though.

[HarlequinRogue]

I doubt it, instant j.d.MKs send you very high, so I don't think you'll have enough time to do something like this. I'll give it a shot though.

Pretty sure it wasn't possible in AE, but I got to thinking that Hugo might give people some inspiration to do something similar. It really feels like a Marvel style combo to me, which amused me

[Doopliss]

I doubt it, instant j.d.MKs send you very high, so I don't think you'll have enough time to do something like this. I'll give it a shot though.

Pretty sure it wasn't possible in AE, but I got to thinking that Hugo might give people some inspiration to do something similar. It really feels like a Marvel style combo to me, which amused me

I think you might be able to connect the j.HPs, but doing something after that... Again, I'll give it a shot. Maybe her super will work, if so then that's better than nothing.

EDIT: Nope, doesn't work. If you don't do the 2nd HP in the Target Combo as fast as possible, it will always whiff. And if you do that, he'll recover before you land. So I can do (j.d.MK, j.HPx2)x2, but nothing else after that.

[Maj]

Stomp loops against Hugo were actually the first thing i tried in USF4, with Chun Li and Seth. But nothing interesting seemed to work. Maybe they anticipated it, tested it, and made sure she couldn't do it somehow. There's a lot of stuff like this in SF4 that barely misses because characters become deceptively short during hit stun.

Also, wtf is going on here? Did Rolento really wall jump off a background object? Man, whoever made this patch must not have been part of the original team because this is the kind of stuff that happens when you don't know all the dirty secrets.

[onReload]

i'd be interested to see the context behind that clip. 'cause if i understand it, wall jumps/bounces in this game don't actually collide with an object, they simply look for wherever the "screen" ends. maybe something happened previously that caused the game to think the screen ended nearby...? like it's some flag (there's a "wall" here) the wall jump input is looking for

[Last_Window]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaDXpBpPGZY

[error1]

The way his wall jump worked in sfxt was pretty stupid, when I ported it I remember changing it quite a bit.

[anotak]

hey, i dont know if this is in USF4 but a lot of other USF4 changes got ported to the ssf4pc steamworks patch (for example elena's healing code works just fine):
there's some kind of engine change to how speed modifiers work on moves, especially how things act on 'partial frames'. previously if moves had active frames lasting half a gameplay frame or whatever, they'd still work and hit, functioning as though they had 1 active frame, and now they just whiff. Other state changes are also affected, for example cancel windows, and counterhit / force_turn status. this has been causing all sorts of headaches for sf4remix development, it broke a few supers and alpha counters, and random moves now have 1 less active frame for us.
I can't think of an example with a move from the unmodified game, i'm sure there will be situations where it could come up if usf4 has the same change. i would double check those weird situations where previously a 2 frame move could punish certain -1 moves or whatever and see if they still function the same

also, i don't know if this affects anything about how it heals, but if elena healing commands are set to do damage, they do grey damage. they don't appear to do grey healing on the positive values though. it's also able to give stun and super/ultra meter. i wonder if this is a weird leftover from some other feature?

also if something causes player to animation freeze, if time over happens, you can press start to progress the screen even if the character is unable to play their time-over animation. i don't know why they didn't add the pressing start thing back in super where the fei long KO and cancel into throw bug existed. but anyway if you find another bug like this, you can now mash start to progress the game. very good change

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaDXpBpPGZY

in case people can't tell, rolento's pushbox is pushing ken. it does look mad weird though

Also, wtf is going on here? Did Rolento really wall jump off a background object? Man, whoever made this patch must not have been part of the original team because this is the kind of stuff that happens when you don't know all the dirty secrets.

definitely not, a lot of weirdnesses are present. they changed frame advantages on things like green hand by changing hitstop of only 1 player which is a very un-sf4 design thing. there's also lots of other weirdness like fixing ryu walk fwd c.mk xx fireball/shoryu overlap by making the shoryu input off only c.mk being a much stricter one, but the same issue still exists off c.mp or c.hp. and now its harder for no reason than the rest of the game to just c.mk shoryu too because you cant do 323 or whatever

[Doopliss]

Gouken can still link cl.MK to Super at least (which is a +2 move into a 3f move).

[anotak]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIt6Ye0vXvE
ibuki passed under him somehow for the 2hk 5hk, that's a little unusual

Gouken can still link cl.MK to Super at least (which is a +2 move into a 3f move).

interesting

this works in the pc version of ssf4 still, after checking.

if i'm doing my math on the speed modifiers right, the attack plays over 16.75 frames (not counting hitstop or whatever) which gets rounded one way or another, but the super appears to be a flat 2f after the flash... well i'm not entirely sure of the effects of super flash on the speed actually, i think it counts as 1 frame in most cases. maybe error1 knows something more about this?

[Doopliss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIt6Ye0vXvE
ibuki passed under him somehow for the 2hk 5hk, that's a little unusual

It's been a thing for some time actually. I guess she simply does a cross-under during the start-up of the s.HK, making him fly the wrong way.

[error1]

Yeah the frame data says 1+2, one frame of superfreeze and two normal start ups.
If you linked from cl.mk it was probably ch, a cancel, meaty, or it's +3.
see if you can link cl.mk, c.lp

[Doopliss]

Yeah the frame data says 1+2, one frame of superfreeze and two normal start ups.
If you linked from cl.mk it was probably ch, a cancel, meaty, or it's +3.
see if you can link cl.mk, c.lp

No, it's just a point blank cl.MK into Super. cl.MK to c.LP won't work because of range issues, even if the move would be +3. IIRC I manage to prove it was +5 on CH and not +6, but I don't remember. From what I hear, this works for the same reason that you can punish certain moves with supers that are supposedly 1 frame too slow to do it.