SF4 Biweekly TACV Series

[Doopliss]

Animation-accurate hitboxes are overrated.

Well, it sure is better than trying to make everybody's hitbox the same like in SFxT. Frankly, that's the main reason I think it's inferior to SFIV combo-wise.

[onReload]

Ahh, OK, I see what you mean. Is that similar to how 3S had those super-dynamic hitboxes?

[CPS2]

Ahh, OK, I see what you mean. Is that similar to how 3S had those super-dynamic hitboxes?

It's a bit different. Like in animation, you might have 2 positions or keyframes, and then "tween" or automatically determine the animation frames between those 2 positions over a set amount of time, SF4 has manually created hitboxes on keyframes and then "tweened" hitboxes between all those frames, which is where you get weird stuff happening sometimes. SF3 just had more hitboxes than most other 2D fighters as far as I know, for it's time, but they still act like hitboxes normally do in 2D fighters.

[Rufus]

It's still a 2D game, and they all have their quirks...shoutouts to 1P/2P sides of screens allowing for different combos

Actually in this regard, SF4 is 100% a 3D game. I'm talking about the difference between hand-drawn sprites with manually positioned hitboxes that don't change every frame and rigged 3D models with hitboxes attached to joints that move every frame. Animation-accurate hitboxes are overrated.

I recall there were videos of SF4 hitboxes which showed them as rectangles on a 2D plane which rotate and shift (possibly based on the model frame) for movement and reeling, but are fixed when the attacks come out.

MvC3 uses 'spheres' which are more natural choice for 3D colisions. I'd be a little curious to see footage of the vita 'hitball viewer mode' in combination with one of the camera changing glitches.

[error1]

Ahh, OK, I see what you mean. Is that similar to how 3S had those super-dynamic hitboxes?

It's a bit different. Like in animation, you might have 2 positions or keyframes, and then "tween" or automatically determine the animation frames between those 2 positions over a set amount of time, SF4 has manually created hitboxes on keyframes and then "tweened" hitboxes between all those frames, which is where you get weird stuff happening sometimes. SF3 just had more hitboxes than most other 2D fighters as far as I know, for it's time, but they still act like hitboxes normally do in 2D fighters.

sf4 is more straight forward, it has rectangles that are glued to parts of a skeleton. And just procedurally generates hittable boxes when not manually defined. It means that as long as the skeleton is moving, the hitbox is changing every frame.

[CPS2]

sf4 is more straight forward, it has rectangles that are glued to parts of a skeleton. And just procedurally generates hittable boxes when not manually defined. It means that as long as the skeleton is moving, the hitbox is changing every frame.

That's pretty much what i was trying to say but i said it another way. I think the procedurally generated hitboxes are really similar in concept to tweening in animations, its just an automatic way of determining what happens between two keyframes.

[Maj]

Guile really doesn't care for having his ultra interrupted. Haha i don't think there's a single favorable outcome from that. I might include some ghetto ultra interrupt clip anyway, but it feels a bit forced. We'll see how it looks.

If all goes well, i think i can actually have this episode finished and uploaded tomorrow night.

[onReload]

Haha, is it gonna be tomorrow in "Maj Time" or real life time?

[Maj]

We'll find out tomorrow, right? : )

[Maj]

Well, i'm done recording clips. It'll take me a couple of hours to edit/export/upload everything, but i might just end up going to sleep and leaving it for tomorrow night. I'm pretty tired and editing these things isn't much fun.

I ended up with eight combos, and decided to abandon the last idea i had planned. Originally i was going to end the video with a bootleg touch-of-death combo against C.Viper in the first match of Time Attack Challenge Mode, where you get infinite gauges. But the combo itself dragged on for too long and got a little boring after the FADC loops started getting repetitive.

edit: Fuck it, i'll just release it on Tuesday like i always meant to do with every episode in this series. It'll give me time to make sure i haven't forgotten anything, or maybe i'll change my mind about killing Viper if any of you guys are actually interested in seeing that.

[Doopliss]

Challenge mode combos are always fun if you ask me.

[Pokey86]

ToD combo with Guile?

Go for it, i'd have thought scaling with him would really, really mess with damage output, as Sonic boom does about 50 damage right?

[Maj]

Sonic Boom is 50 damage, but EX Sonic Boom does 100 damage, which is what i'd be using most of the time. His damage output is about average for this sort of thing, but the real problem is that i've already used just about every interesting corner sequence in other combos. One way or another, it's going to get repetitive before it's over.

Anyway i'll give it another shot tonight and see what it actually looks like from beginning to end. The other (slightly) annoying thing is that i'll have to change stages from the Small Airfield background that i've been using for Guile, and Viper happens to fight on the dark jungle stage which makes it impossible to see anything.

[Doopliss]

Is the meter on refill or infinite? If it's on infinite, maybe you can juggle a few supers in a row, or somehow getting 2-hit super or FK xx 1-hit super, EX SB xx Super, or something like that.

[Maj]

It's on infinite, so i was planning on doing some gimmicky stuff with multiple supers, but i don't know how much there is to do against a grounded opponent - especially considering Viper isn't a particularly useful dummy. I'm sure i'll find something though, so i'm not too worried about the ender.

[Maj]

I spent most of last night trying to make that Time Attack touch-of-death combo come to life, but nothing worthwhile came out of it. I don't even think Guile has a midscreen-to-corner transition from 2P's round start position.

The closest i got was Guile dash forward, j.HP, s.HP xx EX Sonic Boom xx FADC, close s.LP, far s.MP xx EX SB xx FADC, far s.LP, far s.MP xx EX SB xx FADC, c.LP, c.MP (whiff). That brings Viper all the way to the corner, but just slightly out of Guile's reach.

Also the most interesting ender i could find was HK Flash Kick xx LK super (four hits), LK super (two hits) with the Flash Kick to super cancel delayed slightly to allow the opponent to rise a little higher. Kinda cool, but not exactly mind-blowing.

I'm just gonna release what i have (in about two hours). If i ever find an interesting way to kill Viper, i'll record that combo for you guys later.

[Doopliss]

Great work, I really like that Trade FK to EX FK ro Ultra. And of course the FK FADC Ultra.

[error1]

you could start with lp boom, fadc.
Seems like some of those would be better as regular booms for the less pushback

[Maj]

Oddly enough, using regular Sonic Booms creates another problem - close s.LP is much worse than far s.LP at hitting Viper during Sonic Boom hitstun. Using regular Sonic Booms changes the combo, it doesn't directly help. Maybe there's some magic combination of regular and EX that will work, but i haven't found it yet. Guile doesn't have a midscreen combo into lvl2 FA against Viper either, as far as i can tell.

Anyway it's not that big a deal. It was gonna be a pretty lame combo, especially if i was forced to reduce the early power hits. You lose like 135 damage going from s.HP xx EX Sonic Boom down to c.LP xx LP Sonic Boom, and that adds like four extra lvl2 FA, F+HK, c.MP xx EX SB reps at the end. It's even worse with an early lvl2 Focus Attack. So yeah, all signs point to ghetto.

[onReload]

wow. gotta rewatch this thing a bunch of times, as usual. As usual with charge characters, I really want to see the input. Any simple way for you to run these scripts with training mode's input display up?

Was really happy to see that last combo, sonic boom -> Ultra, I've been wanting to see if something like that was possible.

That meaty counterhit vs. Dhalsim - is that a setup we can expect to work in many other situations?

[Snoooootch]

Was really happy to see that last combo, sonic boom -> Ultra, I've been wanting to see if something like that was possible.

I know mike did it with EX sonic Boom but I like the single hit juggle. Looks more difficult to time and space out.

[onReload]

Oh no, I specifically meant Focus crumple, sonic boom, ultra 1

[Snoooootch]

Oh no, I specifically meant Focus crumple, sonic boom, ultra 1

Hahaha

I just can't get over the Flash kick fadc to U1. Inputting the flash kick direction during the light punch, then pressing the kick button on the medium punch start up. That's just crazy.

[Maj]

I've seen lvl2 Focus Attack xx dash backward, Sonic Boom, ultra in a couple of videos, so it wasn't new by any means. I'm pretty sure error1 had it in one of his videos too, and i'd seen it in some random Japanese video before that.

I included it because it looked cool enough, but more importantly because there wasn't much else to do against Sakura in that situation with no meter. Basically my only other options were lvl2 FA, lvl1 FA, ultra or some generic Sonic Boom combo ending in Flash Kick or maybe KO, which didn't seem appealing because what would i do after the KO?

The best option would be something like lvl2 FA xx dash forward, blah xx Sonic Boom, blah xx Sonic Boom, c.MK -> F+MP (KO), F+MP. Is that any better? It's not too late to record that instead for the compilation, but it doesn't seem like much of an improvement.

[Snoooootch]

Haha, 2 overheads? Sounds good. Can you input U1 at the same time as a Knock out-ing sonic boom?

[onReload]

^I actually wondered about something like this; Let's say a traveling fireball is about to K.O. the opponent. Can you finish the input for a new one on the same it connects/dissipates, so you get a post-K.O. floating fireball? Or does the K.O. and input lockout happen on the same frame?

..which leads me to another thing that might have already been discussed. I K.O. a lotta people with Zangief's SPD. If they had no health, the K.O. message/sound happens instantly. If their health was equal to the SPD's damage, then it takes a few frames to drain the health, and THEN it displays the K.O....So I guess with that in effect, you could more easily finish special move inputs for post-K.O. connections.

/weird