SFxT Combo Engine Investigation

[error1]

finally some good info
http://youtu.be/athyhrR13Zg
looks like it uses jp like sf4

[Doopliss]

I'm not gonna lie, I'm quite jealous of Desk atm XD

[Maj]

Well it's free publicity for SFxT, so i can see why some community manager at Capcom Europe thought it was a good idea. And it sounds like desk only got to play it for one day, which probably isn't enough time to find ugly glitches. In fact i'm surprised it took so long for something like this to happen.

On the other hand, it is kind of an unfair advantage to give one person. But the only people it can hurt are other combo makers, and there are too few of us to matter. Plus every combo maker wants to have their way independently, so we're never gonna have a unified voice to speak out about anything.

[CPS2]

MarkMan combo video! http://youtu.be/3EJ2hvM7Gp8

Looks like Ibuki's EX upkicks don't knock down and are loopable like in SF3, sweet!

[Doopliss]

MarkMan combo video! http://youtu.be/3EJ2hvM7Gp8

Looks like Ibuki's EX upkicks don't knock down and are loopable like in SF3, sweet!

Yeah they are, it's quite sweet.

[CPS2]

It's just crazy how much this is turning out to be like how I wanted SSF4...
I'm watching cross assault, they're about to do some kind of elimination http://crossassault.ign.com/

[Doopliss]

It's just crazy how much this is turning out to be like how I wanted SSF4...
I'm watching cross assault, they're about to do some kind of elimination http://crossassault.ign.com/

They're having the team challenge to see who which team gets the advantage/disadvantage. Elimination is in 90 minutes.

[error1]

tweet some combo ideas
https://twitter.com/#!/AlexValleSF4
they are doing combos for cross assault

[Doopliss]

In one of Ogre's later trials, you apparently have to do:

"c.HK xx SCDC, s.HK xx SCDC, s.HP xx DP+LK"

SCDC= Super Charge Dash Cancel

So it looks like you'll be able to use it for combos with some characters, without the need of EX SCDCs and/or moves with special counterhit properties.

EDIT: Nvm, c.HK is a 2-hit launcher cancellable at both hits, just like Abel's c.HP, and you're supposed to do that combo as a juggle.

[error1]

it definitely has uses in juggles, mid combo counter hits should be interesting

[Doopliss]

mid combo counter hits should be interesting

One thing I've been thinking about is doing a loop by doing a CH Heavy, into EX SCDC, repeat. Sould cause massive damage if it works.

[Doopliss]

With Marduk, Mike Ross is comboing that slow, armored arm swing into his EX command grab... So either that moves allows grabs to connect, or EX Northern Lights Suplex can hit during hitstun.

[Maj]

My guess is that it's the latter, like Vega's EX Izuna Drop in SF4. There's a lot of moves in Tekken and Soul Calibur that work like Abel's anti-air grab, which get used in juggle combos all the time. King has had one since like Tekken 4 or T5. I'll bet Capcom tried to preserve those things as much as possible in SFxT. I wouldn't be too surprised if a few of the ground command throws magically combo as well.

Anyway i'm sure you guys will dismantle SFxT's combo engine in a week tops. You've gotten pretty good at it with SF4 and MvC3's many iterations, and we have a few Tekken players here as well.

[Smileymike101]

Actually i'd go as far and say that we don't know alot about MvC3's engine.Cause like every now and then, some simple combovid with nothing fabulous execution wise comes up, that shows alot of new, unseen stuff.UMvC3 needs some tool assist monster like what Joo did for Mvc2.

[Rufus]

Actually i'd go as far and say that we don't know alot about MvC3's engine.Cause like every now and then, some simple combovid with nothing fabulous execution wise comes up, that shows alot of new, unseen stuff.UMvC3 needs some tool assist monster like what Joo did for Mvc2.

"...in this game, everything can combo."
--Seth Killian, in a discussion of MvC3.

For combo mechanics, it seems like there's a phase of 'learning the system' and a phase of 'breaking the system'. There's a bunch of predictable stuff like standard frame data and juggle potential that's conceptually easy to work through (i.e. learning the system). Finding stuff that breaks the rules is a bit less predictable.

[wolverine-master]

UMvC3 needs some tool assist monster like what Joo did for Mvc2.

Time to get back to work.

[error1]

so at one point on the cross assault scramble mode competition gief hits bison with his super as akuma throws an air fireball. Once he finishes his super he wins the round and gets hit with the air fireball. It didn't look like the super stopped time for the fireball but it did stop time for akuma.
It seems in a happy birthday situation you might be able to stagger into super, hitting one character, return to normal time and continue the combo on the other character

[Doopliss]

so at one point on the cross assault scramble mode competition gief hits bison with his super as akuma throws an air fireball. Once he finishes his super he wins the round and gets hit with the air fireball. It didn't look like the super stopped time for the fireball but it did stop time for akuma.
It seems in a happy birthday situation you might be able to stagger into super, hitting one character, return to normal time and continue the combo on the other character

I've also been thinking about using fireballs like that to continue a combo after super, should work in 1v1 too if you throw a Sonic Boom, then raw tag, then maybe Heihachi's super.

[Smileymike101]

Supers freeze the game, which seems odd.Like, all the projectiles disappear, and the instantly appear back in place after the super ends.Odd

[onReload]

My guess is that it's for when another character could potentially be on screen.

[error1]

http://shoryuken.com/2012/03/03/street- ... un-li-jin/
some samples of prima frame data. It doesn't have jp info or frame data for chained normals.
The tekken characters look to have tons of frame advantage and hit stun. Looks like Jin's Shun Masatsu causes 28 frames of hit stun and is cancelable. Wonder what they had to do to prevent dash cancel loops.

[Doopliss]

http://shoryuken.com/2012/03/03/street- ... un-li-jin/
some samples of prima frame data. It doesn't have jp info or frame data for chained normals.
The tekken characters look to have tons of frame advantage and hit stun. Looks like Jin's Shun Masatsu causes 28 frames of hit stun and is cancelable. Wonder what they had to do to prevent dash cancel loops.

One thing that suprised me is that the penultimate of the Kazama 5-hit and 6-hit combo is +6, you can probably do some really long loops with that and EX Power Stance.

[Doopliss]

Looked at a stream, they played scramble battle. Both characters did an EX move at the exact same time, only wasted one bar. At least I think both used EX moves, they overlapped each other.

[Mienaikage]

Was messing with Juri and noticed that if you do s.HP xx QCF HK the fireball will whiff, but if you tag when the Fuhajin kick connects the fireball will still come out and connect.

[Doopliss]

Was messing with Juri and noticed that if you do s.HP xx QCF HK the fireball will whiff, but if you tag when the Fuhajin kick connects the fireball will still come out and connect.

Yes, juggle potential is reset when tag cancelling. What intrigues me however is that the projectile actually came out.

[Smileymike101]

Can you tag cancel projectiles, like FA in sf4?

[Doopliss]

Can you tag cancel projectiles, like FA in sf4?

I think you can do it when they connect, but not from fullscreen or anything like that.

[Persona]

I'm curious if the gems actually help extend combos or make more combo possibilities because the game seems to be really strict on juggles.

Combo system feels like a mix of MK9 and Darkstalkers IMO. And I agree with desk, not much depth to the combo system. Once people weed out all the useless command moves of the tekken characters, combos aren't going to get very far unless there's specific character setups and such like SF4.

Character trials are really simple (probably the easiest I've played) too. I guess that's kind of an indication of the lack of depth.

[Doopliss]

I'm curious if the gems actually help extend combos or make more combo possibilities because the game seems to be really strict on juggles.

I think Speed Gems and Proficiency Gems will be the favorites when it comes to combo making. With Proficiency gems you can use more meter. With Speed Gems you can most likely do new combos involving jumps.

For example, That Counterhit move Jin has. It's like +32 on hit. His jump is 35 frames+4 prejump frames, so it's possible he can't do a jump move in time. With a speed gem or two, his jump will be 3-7 frames faster, which should allow him to connect with the jump-in. When you get into the 30-40% speed boost range, you might be able to perform jump loops with some characters.

Also, the easy cancel gem might allow for something new. Maybe.

[Persona]

I'm curious if the gems actually help extend combos or make more combo possibilities because the game seems to be really strict on juggles.

I think Speed Gems and Proficiency Gems will be the favorites when it comes to combo making. With Proficiency gems you can use more meter. With Speed Gems you can most likely do new combos involving jumps.

For example, That Counterhit move Jin has. It's like +32 on hit. His jump is 35 frames+4 prejump frames, so it's possible he can't do a jump move in time. With a speed gem or two, his jump will be 3-7 frames faster, which should allow him to connect with the jump-in. When you get into the 30-40% speed boost range, you might be able to perform jump loops with some characters.

Also, the easy cancel gem might allow for something new. Maybe.

Hmm, sounds good. I guess it'll be awhile until people start adding gems to their combos. For now I guess everyone is just trying to take the spotlight for their favorite character combo-wise. And I assume we really need that SFxT guide because IIRC it has frame data and to be honest, the Tekken characters have so many moves that I can't even remember all of them to test them out (unless you pick a simple Tekken character or come from a Tekken background).

And I want to add that you can't do a special from a chain unless it's an ex move and even then, some attacks can't be canceled at all even if you use an ex move.