Got any Questions about CvS, CvSPro, CvS2, or CFE?

[onReload]

Yeah a few minutes after posting that I thought "Wait...does Joe or Dan even have a projectile that would allow for that kind of thing?" and I figured you or someone Japanese would have gotten to it already.

I need to get back to CvS1, actually...takes so long to unlock everything, but my friend did scavenge a converter that will hopefully let me use a PS2 pad on my Dreamcast. I think my #1 motivation would be to see that Chun SBK Super you were talking about

[Raine]

I was trying to find a solution to the recent combo challenge, so I started up CvS2 and messed around with a few characters. I can't seem to do multiple throws in CC mode with a lot of characters although it seems like it should work. I noticed in the Chang response he does a command grab -> HK throw -> HP throw. Trying similar things with other characters I couldn't get it to connect e.g. Cammy airthrow -> ground throw or ground throw -> ground throw (although sometimes she will do a throw whiff animation). Yun does a ground throw into his command grab, but I can't do the same thing with Rock. Am I just missing the timing for these things or do they just not work due to different grab hitboxes??? I'm pretty lost in CvS games but damn, A-Groove customs are fun to play around with.

[Maj]

Without giving away the secret to the challenge, here's how OTG throws work in CvS2. Dan and Rolento remain vulnerable to throws initiated during CC after any standard knockdown. Generally speaking, they become completely invulnerable after any normal throw. There are four exceptions: Maki's punch throw, Hibiki's kick throw, Chang's kick throw, and Yun's punch throw. (Maki and Hibiki can juggle after their throws, which is a rarity in CvS2.)

Virtually all command grabs have this benefit as well, so not only does this challenge require grapplers to gain access to a third throw, but you actually need those command grabs to avoid the normal throw lockout. Zangief is the easiest candidate for hard mode because he can combo four unique throws without having to use any normal throws whatsoever. But other characters have hard mode solutions as well.

[Raine]

Oh I see. Thanks for the info.

Another quick question, why is there a whiff animation for normal throws and what situations does it occur rather than just getting the heavy normal? I'm guessing maybe it's for when the opponent goes invincible during grab startup?

[Maj]

It happens frequently for many different reasons. All normal punch throws have 3 frames of startup and kick throws have 5 frames of startup. If you execute the command when the opponent is throwable and within range, your character will attempt a throw.

If the opponent becomes unthrowable or moves out of range before the active frame, you get throw whiff animation. That can happen when the opponent jumps away, walks backward, rolls through, dashes forward, activates CC, etc. etc.

[onReload]

Generally speaking, they become completely invulnerable after any normal throw.

ahh, ok. i was wondering why Ez2Torta was ending some combos at a (seemingly) early time

[Maj]

From SSF4:AE2012 Combo Engine Investigation ...

Also hey Maj: why is Gigaton Blow any good? and which groove do you use the most (My guess is C)

The short answer is that it hurts and more importantly it's fast. The way supers work in CvS2, you always have around 4-5 frames of pre-superfreeze startup. Then after superfreeze, you animate while your opponent is frozen for a certain number of frames. According to Buktooth's CvS2 Systems Guide it's 3 frames for lvl1 supers, 5 frames for lvl2 supers, and 7 frames for lvl3 supers.

In Balrog's case, 7 frames is enough for his fist to reach halfway across the screen and slide forward another fifth or so. In terms of punishing blocked moves, it's one of the best reversals in the game - along with Sonic Hurricane and Rock's lvl3 dashpunch super. Truth be told, Balrog is kind of a garbage character in CvS2, but there are some important pokes that Gigaton Blow can punish, like Vega c.MP and Honda RC Headbutt (blocked of course).

As for me, i played A-Groove Iori/Ken/Rolento-2 while SHGL was still around. But that was before people discovered roll-canceling, and way before all the dirty A-Groove techniques were developed. Eventually i switched over to C-Guile/Ken/Sagat-2 as my main team. Although i'm probably way better when i make Guile my R2. The problem is, i like playing him first and it's generally a good idea to save your R2 for your anchor.

But i never liked playing Sagat, so over the last few years it's mostly been C-Zangief/Ken/Guile-2 or some other random character instead of Gief. Actually it's fun to play Gief in CvS2, as long as you're not up against Cammy/Vega zoning or Sagat standing fierce.

[onReload]

Yeah see C-Guile and Ken I figured you for, A Iori/Rolento surprises me a bit, but I've never liked A-Groove so I don't focus too much on characters who do better in it.

How much does C help Zangief? Can he RC SPD for extra range/invulnerability? I enjoy K-Zangief a lot simply because of the huge damage threat and the fact that you can get like 2 or 3 Lvl3s a round. And , uh, that stopping time thing seems a bit...gross?

[Maj]

C-Groove doesn't help Zangief at all, except Ken always comes in with full meter and that makes him legitimately scary. Then you get to skip the whole "hang back until i have meter" phase with Ken, which makes the whole team a lot more fun.

Gief is probably better in K-Groove overall. The only two things Gief gets out of C-Groove are dash into 360/720 and the ability to roll. His roll might be the slowest one in the game, but roll into SPD is 100% free once per match as long as you meet these two requirements: You can't roll at all for the first 30 seconds of the round, and you have to be winning when you try it. If you're losing, or if they've seen you roll that round, it won't work.

Honestly C-Gief is pretty terrible in CvS2, but it's still fun to play him because it's kind of a cool puzzle - trying to grab fools. Plus CvS2 is a patient game and i'd always rather be rushing fools down with Ken instead of turtling people out with Sagat, but i never have a problem being patient with Gief.

[onReload]

Same. I hate turtling - to a fault really, as trying to play rushdown with grapplers is suicide in a quick way. Just Defense can help that aspect with K-Gief, though, since, IIRC, you can JD while being AA'd, making zangief even scarier

[Pokey86]

I know it's a pain when people ask people to make combos, so i understand if no one comes forward.

When i first started recording & a had a few CV's under my belt i wanted an intro. i already new what i wanted. If anyone who has Cap VS SNK2 would they be able to record a combo for me?

Hibiki
Rooftop stage

Activate A-ism & then do that cross up slash over & over again, end with her rush through super thing. (If it kills the opponent then cool, but it doesn't have to)

I woudl get this myself, however my PS3 doesn't play PS2 games anymore.

Also, i would be using it as an intro to my videos. So if anyone thinks it's not ethical or w/e then fair enough.

then again, i might buy a new optical drive for my PS3.

[Maj]

Why's everyone looking at me?

Hm, unfortunately tomorow's gonna be a pretty busy day so i probably won't get home until midnight. Maybe i can do it Wednesday night though. All my Dreamcast stuff is actually packed away so i can't just do it in 10 minutes.

Btw that custom is nowhere near 100% damage. I can try it as R4 Hibiki vs R1 dummy if you want.

[Pokey86]

yeah i know it won't KO from scratch. (Maybe Shin Akuma, i remember he had paper health in Cap Vs SNK) But thanks, & certainly don't rush, as i said, usually when someone requests someone to do a combo it's shy'd away from to obscurity, so cheers for offering.

[Maj]

Cool - if there's no hard deadline, then i'll definitely get it done sometime this week. Any preference in colors?

[Pokey86]

Hibiki's default (The white one... right?) as for the opponent, so long as it doesn't clash with the background then i'm happy.

trying to think if it's worth you getting Hibiki's taunt at tacked on the end. Though i can't remember what she does. (Ties her shoelaces? Or is that Sakura) eh, nevermind.

[Maj]

Hibiki's default is the red/orange outfit: http://f11.aaa.livedoor.jp/~aichicvs/qvga.htm

And just to be clear, you want the rainy rooftop stage and not the fiery one, right?

[Pokey86]

Hibiki's white one please. (You press X to select that? What button is considered "default"?) & yes i believe it's rainy rooftop

[Maj]

Light Punch is the default color; the one on the top left. Check Ryu for reference. Hibiki is wearing brick red in all of her official artworks.

Anyway i'll record it with her white costume. I found out gamestop was selling CvS2 used for $15 so i picked it up last night. I'll try to have the video captured and uploaded sometime tonight. (Gotta unlock that stage first though).

edit: Wtf, i just spent the last two hours unlocking literally everything except that stage. I even lost a match and continued, and still got the super bosses on the fiery rooftop instead of the regular ones on the rainy rooftop.

[onReload]

Maj it just knows you're that gdlk at CvS2.

also, speaking of your love for that game, why the heck would you of all people need to buy a version of CvS2?

[Maj]

Four hours later, finally fought regular Rugal on the rain stage! The easiest way to do it is pick K-Gief and try to get exactly two lvl3 super finishes before the 5th match and a lot of first attacks, then beat the miniboss. Don't get any Finest KO's whatsoever until you reach the final boss (it's kinda hard with Gief anyway) and stay under 1500GP.

CvS2 originally ran on Sega's Naomi arcade hardware, which is essentially a Dreamcast. Obviously that means the Dreamcast port of CvS2 is the best console version of the game. But the PS2 version is considered arcade-perfect as well, because the gameplay is virtually identical. The only thing they changed was making the 3D effects bigger - superfreeze, hit sparks, etc. Also i vaguely remember there being some Yun glitch that crashes the game on PS2, but can't recall how it was done.

Short answer: I never had a reason to get the PS2 version until now, but my laziness totally backfired.

[onReload]

ahh, didn't know there were subtle differences, and yeah i know it was one of those DC <3 NAOMI games, like MvC2...the PS2 version is nice and convenient for me, though, and my copy was sealed when i got it a few years ago.

i'm interested in this yun glitch thing; if there's no footage of it on youtube, i could be the one to put it up there...considering it isn't beneath me to show 3s sean hit 19 people before the match starts

[Pokey86]

considering it isn't beneath me to show 3s sean hit 19 people before the match starts

Huh?

---

And damn Maj... i was on the presumption you had some sort of save on your odl Dreamcast or whatever. I didn't expect you had to do everything from scratch. I didn't even know you had to unlock that stage.

I can send you the cash for the purchase if you want, as way of compensation. As for the time spent. I could do a video of me doing nothing for 4/5 hours

[Maj]

Don't even worry about it, $15 is really cheap for CvS2. The only downside is that they lost the manual and cover insert, but i'm sure it'll come in handy. In fact someone from work was saying he wanted to play me in CvS2. Not sure if he was serious, but having the PS2 version would make it a lot easier than trying to find Dreamcast sticks.

Anyway how's this? CvS2 Hibiki Combo 01

It's a fully midscreen combo, but i had to start near the corner to keep Hibiki from favoring one side of the screen. Otherwise every other slash gets cut off by the edge of the screen. This is about as centered as i could get it.

Also i started the match with Hibiki at 0% life to preserve the First Attack message without going through the whole block damage routine for an entire round every time. Normally i do the block damage thing, but honestly it makes no difference. The reason her lifebar had to be drained is because CvS2 gives you a damage boost when your life is in the red, and the combo doesn't kill Akuma otherwise.

The crossup setup is probably fancier than it need to be. I'm pretty sure she could've gotten the same result with a normal j.HK crossup against crouching Akuma, but a (precise) crossup is necessary so there's no gap between them when she activates CC. Otherwise the first runslash either doesn't combo or it takes a few extra frames to connect, which costs a runslash at the end because the super is already timed on like the last pixel of meter.

In what format do you want me to send the HQ version? The uncompressed file is 1.3GB but i can encode it in MP4 or WMV if that's easier for you.

[Pokey86]

Holy shit... that's superb.

WMV would be ideal. Thanks you Maj

[Maj]

You're welcome sir. Btw it's only a touch-of-death combo with R4 Hibiki vs R1 Akuma. It kills maskless Vega too, plus all the evil boss characters - but they don't count. Otherwise it's a fairly low-damaging combo. Plus it's not optimized for damage whatsoever.

Hibiki's close s.HK does 1300 damage compared to 1000 damage from runslash, so looping s.HK xx runslash would generate way more damage early on. Then after ten hits, when everything does 100 damage per hit, you're better off mashing c.LK instead. But if you changed all this, you'd end up with roughly 10 runslashes instead of 27.

[onReload]

http://shoryuken.com/2011/10/23/why-str ... urnaments/

Under "The Lessons of the Past", the paragraph right under Hulk/Magneto from MSF talks about a problem with CvS2's RC mechanic...how accurate is the whole thing? Keits seems to be implying that part of the reason people let RC go is because it was hard to pick up on..I didn't know it was so much of a gamebreaker

[Maj]

Yup, all of us (and Capcom) totally lucked out that roll canceling didn't ruin CvS2 beyond repair. The fact that RC's made CvS2 better at top level is doubly lucky. How can 15+ frames of invincibility on every special move not be a potential gamebreaker?

[onReload]

Is there a way I can tell, as a spectator, when something was RC'd (besides noticing "oh hey they weren't hit at all, right there")?

[Maj]

If you know exactly what the special move is supposed to look like, you can see the character twitch forward abnormally a little bit before the special move starts. RC's can happen on the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd frame of a roll - so it's a lot more obvious if it happens on the last possible frame. But u2b killing frame rate doesn't help matters at all.

CvS2 at Evo2k3: Amir vs Daigo

You can clearly see Guile twitching as he does RC Sonic Boom at 1:29 when Sagat's j.LK passes right through him. Obviously he also roll-cancels the Sonic Boom at 2:24 to beat the Psycho Crusher, and you can see the roll twitch there too, but it's not quite as obvious if you're not looking for it.

Bison also RC's the Psycho Crusher at 2:16 but i can't see the roll twitch there at all. I think u2b owned that one up, because Bison's roll startup is normally not that hard to spot.