SSF4:AE Combo Engine Investigation

[onReload]

Yeah I remember trying REALLY hard to get the EX Guacamole to connect for the original Vanilla challenge, and your combo was pretty much what I tried (but with U1). I did number crunching a few weeks ago and yeah, it's just not possible with El Fuerte.

...lame attempt at segueing back into the topic: i don't think they listed any changes to El.F that would help this type of thing in AE...but they don't list everything, right?

[Doopliss]

That combo has bothered me since SFIV. In SFIV, he only has to do one s.HP, but his U1 doesn't do enough damage to reach 700. In SSFIV they nerf the stun on s.HP, so you have to do it twice, scaling his U2 too much. It's quite annoying.

[onReload]

Hahaha yup, I found the exact same stupid conundrum...

[desk]

Close fierce does base 200 stun instead of 140, so, for example, you can RSF dizzy Gief, which is effectively impossible in SSF4.... though I suppose that can also be worse.... Hmm. He didn't have the Q-Bomb FADC juggle in the corner, so... Vanilla's is probably worse.

Ah, I thought you meant you could just do more reps for some reason, thanks for the info. I'd be really interested to hear (or see) his theoretical maximum combo in super. I'm aware this is the AE thread though, lol.

[Doopliss]

Wtf, I got the shared video from you Rufus, but when I tried to watch it, it said it was private >.< I thought the point of sharing was to be able to show private videos? Stupid youtube...

[Rufus]

Stupid youtube...

Argh. I may switch to somethign else. Youtube is annoying.
"0 out of 50 users have access to this video. ... currently sharing with Sonichurricanedotcom, dadoppen,..."

[Doopliss]

I just realized, they made Dan's c.MP have a start-up of 5 in AE. that means you can link it after EX Gadoken. Corner loops ftw.

Two examples that should work (tested in super, with no block on) on crouching Honda:

"j.HK, c.MP xx EX Gadoken, c.MP xx EX Gadoken xx c.MP, EX Gadoken, (EX Gadoken again?) U1"

"j.HK, s.HK, c.MP, Gadoken xx FADC, s.HK, c.MP xx EX Gadoken, c.MP xx EX Gadoken, U1"

[Snoooootch]

Yeah, basically most of his normals got buffs. He'll be able to pull out st. lp to cr. mp to ex danku. I'm so excited about that!

[Doopliss]

c.MP to c.MP too.

[Snoooootch]

Just to ch6eck, is fei's st. lp, both near and far version, now +6 on hit? And cl. mk is now 4 frames?

[error1]

Just to ch6eck, is fei's st. lp, both near and far version, now +6 on hit? And cl. mk is now 4 frames?

it's what I've read, would be easy to check once you get your hands on it, by linking into sweep or doing hk chicken into mk

[Doopliss]

Oni's LK tatsu and LK slash causes float on AA hit, they both go straight into U2, even mid-screen. Slash works better from the air-part of an FA, while Tatsu only works as a real AA.

He can also link c.LP from EX Gohadoken, and loop that 4 times in the corner.

He can juggle with MP airdash xx EX tatsu, I'm trying it out a little to see if I can do it from an FA into U2.

He can juggle with U2 after HK tatsu in the corner, at least on Balrog.

[Pokey86]

Oni's LK tatsu and LK slash causes float on AA hit, they both go straight into U2, even mid-screen. Slash works better from the air-part of an FA, while Tatsu only works as a real AA.

He can also link c.LP from EX Gohadoken, and loop that 4 times in the corner.

He can juggle with MP airdash xx EX tatsu, I'm trying it out a little to see if I can do it from an FA into U2.

He can juggle with U2 after HK tatsu in the corner, at least on Balrog.

Good notes, i'm looking to update the juggle guide ASAP. I'll retest the stuff you mention though, just to be sure.

[Doopliss]

It seems DP+MK has less damage and more JP than LK and HK, keep that in mind.

Btw, I found a glitch: If you do FA to U2 with T.Hawk (which works now), the combo counter resets, and you get full ultra damage (450!). Maybe you can do a stun combo with this for a massive damage combo.

EDIT: Only works if you start with the FA, not during stun.

[Pokey86]

It seems DP+MK has less damage and more JP than LK and HK, keep that in mind.

Btw, I found a glitch: If you do FA to U2 with T.Hawk (which works now), the combo counter resets, and you get full ultra damage (450!). Maybe you can do a stun combo with this for a massive damage combo.

EDIT: Only works if you start with the FA, not during stun.

You couldn't U2 a dizzy person anyway right? Also that fills me with optimism that they might release a small fix & maybe un-fuck up Yun's dominance. (though i haven't played the game there is alot of roumer stirring on the interweebs & the tourny character choices don't lie )

what is DP + MK?

[onReload]

how are Oni's Ultra startup times? could you do (generic jump-in, generic close heavy attack) EX Fireball -> cr.LP xx EX Fireball FADC Ultra?

[Doopliss]

It seems DP+MK has less damage and more JP than LK and HK, keep that in mind.

Btw, I found a glitch: If you do FA to U2 with T.Hawk (which works now), the combo counter resets, and you get full ultra damage (450!). Maybe you can do a stun combo with this for a massive damage combo.

EDIT: Only works if you start with the FA, not during stun.

You couldn't U2 a dizzy person anyway right? Also that fills me with optimism that they might release a small fix & maybe un-fuck up Yun's dominance. (though i haven't played the game there is alot of roumer stirring on the interweebs & the tourny character choices don't lie )

what is DP + MK?

DP+MK with Oni, the jump slam thing.

I meant, if you get a dizzy, then do FA, then U2, it will scale normally. But when I did FA, rose trade, FA, U2, the combo counter got reset.

EDIT: But now I can do it after stun just fine, on Ryu. It didn't work on Rufus...

[Snoooootch]

Times like these I wish I was on xbox.

[Doopliss]

I thought the marketplace on PS3 was up?

[onReload]

Haha Snoooootch how do you think I felt when I logged on Steam this morning? I forgot that we have to wait until next month...which isn't THAT long, really, but during day one I'm reading y'all and getting the itch

[error1]

hum, I still haven't decided, 36$ seems like a lot for just 4 new characters, and they've nerfed blanka for no reason so I probably won't enjoy it as much as vanilla. Weird that the pc version is so much more expensive then the dlc version.

[onReload]

well you have to remember for us PC users it's as though we're buying Super, and AE...I don't remember what Super cost (30 or 40USD?), but yeah, the last thing we supposedly bought was Vanilla...also that $36 price you're quoting is for you since you bought Vanilla via Steam; I bought it on sale on D2D (for $20, whoo), so I'll be paying $40, which I think is also cheaper than the "standard" MSRP.

i'll be spending the money since I've missed out on messing around with Super and don't feel like being out of the loop again, and there's all those achievements and online features.

[error1]

amazon has ae for xbox and ps3 for 40$ but they don't sell the pc version, pc games are normally cheaper

I'll probably still get it but I won't feel happy about buying the game for a third time

[onReload]

sure you will, how else are we going to run ~40 character mirror match sessions?

[error1]

srk has frame data for yun and yang but not oni, eryu
http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_IV
things to note
both have average fa data
for a lot of moves the difference between block advantage and hit advantage is 6 frames instead of the normal 3.
yang's u2 is only 4 frames
they have data for Genei Jin enhanced moves, the target combos have surprisingly poor frame advantage

[ilitirit]

hum, I still haven't decided, 36$ seems like a lot for just 4 new characters, and they've nerfed blanka for no reason so I probably won't enjoy it as much as vanilla. Weird that the pc version is so much more expensive then the dlc version.

The published nerfs aren't that much of a problem for Blanka. It's the stealth nerfs that are worrisome.

For example, in S/SFIV, you could do j.hk, cr.mk, st.lp xx hp.ball into EX Focus Attack. However, this doesn't work in AE on Ryu (and maybe a few other characters) if he blocks! You can't FADC the ball unless you do it really deep. For some reason it seems much harder to cancel lp and hp balls in AE than in the previous two games (mp ball appears to be the same). This also means that some super combos are no longer possible, or at least much harder. I could easily do j.hk, st.mp, cr.mk xx ball xx super against a crouching Ryu in SSFIV, but I can't seem to land it easily in AE.

We're not quite sure if it's a hitbox nerf, or if they've just shortened the cancel window.

Any ideas on how to test that?

[Doopliss]

when AE PC comes, I guess you can script the combo, run it in vanilla and AE, and see what the difference is.

[Mienaikage]

No idea if this is known or not but E.Ryu's close HK puts the opponent into juggle state. Unfortunately not float though

[error1]

Any ideas on how to test that?

I can test it once I get my hands on it, I think they mentioned that they nerfed the rolls hit box tho

[Doopliss]

No idea if this is known or not but E.Ryu's close HK puts the opponent into juggle state. Unfortunately not float though

Yeah, I noticed too. It's fun how the first hit of E.Ryus s.HK knocks them down, and the 2nd hit of Oni's s.HK slams people down. They should've been combined for a cool juggle ender. But at least you can use E.Ryus as an AA and FADC it into Ultra I guess XD