MvC3 Combo Engine Investigation

[Tigre III]

...but the team aerial combo is definitely interesting stuff - if you go for a tag in a situation where your assist can't come out (which is what this "Aerial Cancel" seems to be), but the opponent does an aerial counter, they don't hit anything and they're left wide open. in that sense, there's no point to even trying to counter it, because then you reset scaling.

technically that's not combo related, but i just feel like the Team Aerial stuff will produce bizarre things. You don't get any bar for an aerial tag until your partner comes in, luckily...if there's a way to break that, then meter building will be disgusting.

but yeah, definitely keep up the good work on the HSD; i suppose it's going to be studied until it's completely understood, since we never really had to deal with this kind of thing in the past. any ideas if there's a random factor, like dizzies/undizzies?

Yeah, this new system engine is so... unexplored. The team aerial stuff has some "blind points". Notice that if you try to make an aerial team combo so late, sometimes the little "super freeze" of the aerial team combo appears, but you still have the same char. I havent tested yet if you can take some frame advantage of this. Another curious effect is that sometimes, the next char enter in scene, but with the legs on the floor. I dont know how i did that exactly yet, sorry for the inconclusive contributions...
Another way to test could be what happen with the THC using some special hypers like the down down AB of Wolverine, QCB AB of Arthur or similars...

[onReload]

Notice that if you try to make an aerial team combo so late, sometimes the little "super freeze" of the aerial team combo appears, but you still have the same char. I havent tested yet if you can take some frame advantage of this.

Exactly, that's what I meant - that's what allows Amaterasu and She-Hulk to cancel their attack's recoveries (and then follow up with more attacks, as demonstrated in a few of tragic's vids), so I'm positive there's frame advantage to be gained.

Another curious effect is that sometimes, the next char enter in scene, but with the legs on the floor. I dont know how i did that exactly yet, sorry for the inconclusive contributions...

I tend to make a lot of inconclusive contributions myself, haha, no worries...at least I hope. but yeah, I haven't seen this, if you could figure out how you did it, that might lead to ... "different" but not necessarily "more powerful" combos, I'm thinking. I could be wrong.

Another way to test could be what happen with the THC using some special hypers like the down down AB of Wolverine, QCB AB of Arthur or similars...

Can you elaborate at all? Do you mean THC or DHC? The DHC thing has been used since MvC2, where essentially you're tagging in an opponent who is in a buffed state, and they can follow up if the last Hyper put the dummy in a juggle/other vulnerable state. If you mean THC, well...I don't know what assists would let Arthur or Wolverine do their state-changing Hypers.

[Rufus]

AFAICT The Deadpool thing ends because of pushback.

nah it's not because of pushback, you can do a modok barrier assist as you jump over to negate pushback and deadpool can still only get Ax8, the same as you can get without the assist

Yeah, I'm thinking that HSD starts kicking in after 8 hits - not 8 attacks - so the X-23 loop can be done more often if I cancel early... testing...
Hmm... x23 can get another loop after high M low M xx feint high M low M which is after 8 hits. so the theory isn't quite there.

[error1]

Exactly, that's what I meant - that's what allows Amaterasu and She-Hulk to cancel their attack's recoveries

the Amaterasu thing isn't about canceling the recovery, it's about getting an extra hit and a free ground bounce

[Tigre III]

also, i've been watching all of tragic's work, he's quite the finder. I found this shehulk combo to be the most fascinating, as he cancels her air command normal (hit #16) into Team Aerial Combo, which can't come out that low to the ground, so it removes the recovery, allowing her to launch again...I don't know if they can Counter it, and I don't know if this is possible with other characters.

Woah, the torpedo cancel into another runners start is a powerful trick for she hulk. It works if you input down down+S, then up+S and A at the same time, (to start a mini launcher aerial combo, for example) You can connect a lot o regular standing normals after that, its pretty crazy. She hulk seems increasingly El Fuerte, lol. The aerial team combo cancel with she hulk works pretty well with air down C, and after you can not only launch again, you can also connects for example C, S or cr.B...

[Tigre III]

I noticed that Super Skrull can do "Death Penalty -> s.A xx 2 char THC", does someone know anything else you can do after it?

Yeah Doopliss,after tested it, is possible to connect after Death Penalty a st.A->cr.B->launch-> and B->B->C... So nasty. I think its not so hard to manage it to recover 1 hiper meter and make 2 Death penalty in the same combo, maybe using the air down C to loop it and a final assist to connect the last Death Penalty...

Edit:
Forget the st.A... After the Death Penalty you can connect cr.A, cr.B, cr.C, S...
An easy 1.000,000 dmg combo can be done with that: (sorry, the record stuff is at Krusan s house...)

j.S->s.A->s.B->s.C->Death Penalty->c.A->c.B->c.C->S->a.A->a.B->a.C->a.S->DP+C (right corner) X-Factor -> Inferno.

Note that the combo starts with no air combo for the Death Penalty set up; if you first use an air combo to end with air launch and then Death Penalty, the cr.B whiffs, it seems.

[Doopliss]

Looks like someone already did it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOHEOa30ezc

[Tigre III]

Woah, just the same day i posted it! What a coincidence... Well, your your question is answered then, and now graphically.

[Smileymike101]

Desk, could you tell us how to do those glitches?

[Snoooootch]

Mike, you should make your OWN glitches, bro. the key is to activate moves at times when it shouldn't be possible by putting yourself in the position to allow it. Either that, or confusing the game's mechanics by outrunning it. but to do so, you'll have to work very fast. Fast enough for the available speed of the game's processing to be beat by your hands. If that doesn't work, then yeah... explore Desk's. lol. They do look pretty wild. Floating Haggar is funny!

[Smileymike101]

See, SF4 glitches were easy to found, because we knew the engine everything about the engine, and knew what we could exploit.I don't know/understand squat about MVC3's engine and will take roughly 400 years for me to figure it out.

[Doopliss]

Same here. And even then, I've never been good at finding glitches.

[Maj]

I think desk's next video will explain how the glitches are done. This is just a hype trailer. It's better to pretend you never saw it and wait until the actual thing is released. Otherwise you'll be wasting your time trying to figure out someone else's glitches and you'll never get any credit for it.

... Unless of course we're talking about Japanese combovids or Mortal Kombat glitch vids. Those you have to figure out the hard way, because those fools never explain shit.

[Doopliss]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYsT0W5MzwI

What's this loop? is it an infinite? XD

[spookydonkey]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYsT0W5MzwI

What's this loop? is it an infinite? XD

someone posted that in the spencer subforum on srk, i was like "noway" lol... i think its just loop not inf. i havent messed w/it yet.

& discordian love for the combo from his other vid that has FIVE bionic AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARM!s

i have messed w/that one but i can never get the armorpiercer after the 2nd bionic AAAAARM

[Doopliss]

Looks like they have to land ON the bionic arm for it to work.

[Smileymike101]

Sorry for horrendously bad quality, even for me, but, SENTINAAAAAAAL: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSd3z4B8dMo (1:58)

[Doopliss]

What move are you doing after the first plasma storm? And are you doing a rocket punch after the human catapult?

[Smileymike101]

yes, rocket punch after the throw, st.L after the plasma storm.It's like crazy fast.

[Tigre III]

I think desk's next video will explain how the glitches are done. This is just a hype trailer. It's better to pretend you never saw it and wait until the actual thing is released. Otherwise you'll be wasting your time trying to figure out someone else's glitches and you'll never get any credit for it.

Maj, this is a complicated issue...
I want to share information with the combomakers of this forum, but this is a public topic ... And the short ghetto clips are a plague for us. If you want to make a nice CMV, with some exclusive material, the only option we have is not announce it until the video is posted.
I wish there were a way to share discoveries with others combomakers of this forum in a more ... discrete way.
For example, I would like to make a CMV of a MvC3 character, because I found a way to connect two consecutive hypers. It would be fantastic to share this set up with the other members so that they too can work with this, or you can simply give them ideas to search for other possibilities ... But if, as I think that has ever happened, someone will read and record a guetto clip with the phone, it can certainly ruin your CMV.
It you have any ideas?
Would be great to exchange information between combomakers quietly, I think that's one of the main objectives of this forum.

[Maj]

Um, i don't think it's that big of an issue. If your video is going to be released in a week or two, then you can just wait until it's finished to tell people about your combo ideas. And if you don't want to wait, i think it's fairly safe to talk about combos that you'll be releasing soon. Chances are you'll still be the first person to release them.

On the other hand, if your video is going to take four months to finish, then you can't really expect your combos to remain secret that whole time. If someone else finds them first, there's nothing you can do about it. I don't think this forum can prevent that from happening, and i don't think this forum should prevent that. Combo making will always be a little competitive, even if we're all friends.

Besides, i don't think anyone deserves credit for anything that's found in the first 2-3 months after a new game is released. If you find something in the first two weeks, it's ridiculous to claim that the world couldn't find it if you didn't exist.

Maybe if you find a new combo two years later, then you can say it's "your" combo. But i don't think anyone deserves to be known for anything that's going on in MvC3 right now. Does anyone remember who figured out how to combo after Guile's Flash Kick super in MvC2? Or AHVB x3? Or s.HK xx AHVB?

[Tigre III]

I respect your point of view Maj, but i think that we are not talking about the same issue. Im not talking about combomakers competition ( if not, would not make much sense to propose a more discreet exchange of ideas between combomakers ... Just do not post anything,and problem solved ).

Um, i don't think it's that big of an issue. If your video is going to be released in a week or two, then you can just wait until it's finished to tell people about your combo ideas.

Well, if I wait to finish ( and to publish) a vid, isnt it a bit unnecessary to explain what you can already see? Maybe you can explain something like "here I use a super jump cancel" if somebody asks what happen just in that second, but nothing more.And you can also do it simply in the youtube s channel... In this case there is no exchange of information between combomakers, there is exchange of information with the word, because the video is already published.
Precisely that might be, in my opinion, one of the advantages of belonging to SonicHurricane community, is to exchange ideas and ways to searching without having to wait for publication of the videos ... Otherwise, we could not differentiate too much this forum from other forums that simply post combo vids and then talk about the combo stuff inside.

On the other hand, if your video is going to take four months to finish, then you can't really expect your combos to remain secret that whole time. If someone else finds them first, there's nothing you can do about it. I don't think this forum can prevent that from happening, and i don't think this forum should prevent that. Combo making will always be a little competitive, even if we're all friends.

Mmm I dont want this forum give me to me some "magic" protection to prevent that someone, in his house, will find something before me, this is actually ridiculous, yeah.You say "i don't think this forum should prevent that" but the true is that this forum cannot prevent that, nothing can prevent it. If someone finds something cool before me, fantastic, I will congratulate him on the discovery and will try to learn something from that. And if I already had found it but he also published before... Bad luck for me, no problem.
I was not talking about this case, I was talking to someone outside our forum read our progress in a particular game engine, and without contributing in anything, simply record a fast guetto clip. I do not think that is the same as finding something for yourself ...

Besides, i don't think anyone deserves credit for anything that's found in the first 2-3 months after a new game is released. If you find something in the first two weeks, it's ridiculous to claim that the world couldn't find it if you didn't exist.

Maybe if you find a new combo two years later, then you can say it's "your" combo. But i don't think anyone deserves to be known for anything that's going on in MvC3 right now. Does anyone remember who figured out how to combo after Guile's Flash Kick super in MvC2? Or AHVB x3? Or s.HK xx AHVB?

Again, the "combo credits" are not the problem for me. Is not something I care too much. In fact, I think as Combonauts, we have not discovered anything, hehehe ...
But I like to think that Sonic Hurricane can function as a small working group, and we can help each other. If Dooplis, error1, onreload, Snoooootch, or any combomaker of this forum want to make a nice CMV and i can help him with something, like test, give an opinion, suggest, or whether they can draw on something that we have discovered, great then, i dont have any problem with this, on the contrary, I feel great to help this forum and to help to become good CMVs.
But the idea of make the "hard work" for someone that only enter here to try to read something he can burn quickly and meanly to get some fast views... dont like me so much.
It was just that, nothing else. Surely I will have explained bad, sorry if you wasted your time, it's really a nonsense.

[Maj]

If you're talking about contributing to collaborations in private, i think we already have a pretty good system for that.

In this case there is no exchange of information between combomakers, there is exchange of information with the word, because the video is already published.

Communicating with videos is still communicating. In fact, i'm used to communicating with Japanese combo makers - and we didn't even speak the same language, so videos were the only way to communicate.

For example, jchensor, Kamui, and i made Fun with CFE in Dec 2004. Then 538 made CFJ Logical Progression in Dec 2005, with some clear references to the stuff in our video (and a credit at 9:02). His video had an interesting Guile charge trick at 8:59 and i developed it further in my Evo2k7 Guile vid at 12:33 (and credited 538's video at 16:50). And i know he saw and appreciated that. If you ask me, that's perfect communication.

But the idea of make the "hard work" for someone that only enter here to try to read something he can burn quickly and meanly to get some fast views... dont like me so much.

Has that happened yet? If it happens, we can take stronger precautions against it, but i don't think it's a serious concern.

I post combo ideas in my SF4 TACV thread all the time. Nobody has stolen them yet. The only reason i don't spoil everything for you guys before i finish those videos is so you can have something surprising to enjoy. Otherwise if we talk about everything before our videos are finished, there will be no excitement when the video is complete.

And even if someone did steal one of my combos and upload a ghetto cell phone recording, what would happen? It would get less than 100 views on u2b and i probably wouldn't even hear about it. So what? In fact we have a whole thread for homeless combos and i haven't seen any of those on u2b yet.

I guess i just don't see the problem. I mean sh/f has been around for over 3 years now and we haven't had an incident yet. Even if some "outsider" steals a combo idea, they can't take credit for it because we'll always know who found it first.

Until that happens, i don't think we should be nervous about discussing combos openly.

[Tigre III]

Ok then Maj, enough said. You may be right... Nevermind.

[Rufus]

Anyone know what happens if all three characters get snapped out?

[Tigre III]

Lol interesting question... I suppose that the same if the other player has only one character and you try to snap out, but not sure.

[Doopliss]

I guess they all get hit, the active character leaves the screen, the other two are knocked over, then leave when they get up, then the appropriate character comes out.

[Smileymike101]

Yeah, if you do this with sentinel (or a character with a reliable special move otg) you can infinite the assist with rocket punch.You can also do this after snap out even against only 2 chars.I guess its the same as dormmamu can infinite purification them.whereas in mvc2 they were susceptible to infinite launchers, here they are susceptible to inifite OTGs.I still think they can get launcher to death though, but it's harder to combo into launcher after snapout than in mvc2.

[Doopliss]

so if I ever land a snapback on the opponent and the appropriate assist with my Dormammu, I should just spam purification 'til he dies? good to know.

[trag]

I like combos.

I like SH.

I like maj.

I'd like to contribute here more but I'm still trying to finish these damn "Apprentice Combos" videos. Once I'm done, I'll be back with all my notes! I really like the stuff you guys are coming up with and your testing methods.

<3