Random Lazy Questions

[felineki]

I use "pushbox" because that's the term I was used to from Mugen terminology. For what it's worth, Mugen refers to the freeze upon moment of impact as "hitpause".

[Xenozip.]

All i'm saying is this wouldn'a happened before hitbox display. Just an observation, nothing more.

(With great rectangles comes great responsibility!)

Exactly what happened?

Her collision box extends during her frontstep.

-snip-

Not sure how you got "discussion denied" from this post, when in my next post I was elaborating in further detail and trying to discuss it. I think it's a case of you misinterpreting my intentions and going off on a random nut.

Now this discussion has mutated into a discussion about you and how you feel about stuff and your pet peeves, and I'm not interested in that, but if you want to get back on topic then I'm willing. Don't twist this around, this is sh/f and we're talking directly to Maj in the "Random Lazy Questions" thread, it's got nothing to do with how anyone (myself included) explains the cross-through "phenomenon" to anyone else (you asked a random lazy question and you got a correct answer, like I said I've explained it over a dozen times and my answer would be no different from five years ago).

EG. five years ago you would ask that question, I'd give the exact same answer, and then you'd be like "wtf does that mean", and then I'd explain in full detail just like I did this year. The ONLY difference between back then and now is that I have proof. To put this in retrospect, this info is so esoteric that normally no one would give a damn, the vast majority of players do not care for or understand hitboxes, but now that we can see what's going with the characters in the hitbox viewer; we (as enthusiast and artists) can set up situational combos that can only occur because of hitbox movement that we can now calculate and see. Whether the combo occurs only because of a cross-through or because the action the dummy took moved forwards or backwards and/or was interrupted, etc. For some one who is hype about picking apart frames and situational setups you should understand this.

(But no no no nooo Maj, let's not bother with any of that let's talk about you!!! /obvious sarcasm)

[Maj]

EG. five years ago you would ask that question, I'd give the exact same answer, and then you'd be like "wtf does that mean", and then I'd explain in full detail just like I did this year.

Um, no ... Five years ago "Her collision box extends during her frontstep" wouldn't have meant anything. Not that it means anything today, but at least five years ago we wouldn't be pretending that it means something. I honestly feel like this discussion would've gone dramatically differently five years ago.

Also what exactly have i done to give off the impression that this is MY sh/f and that i have to be treated differently from anyone else? We're having this (and every other) discussion as equals, aren't we? I'm certainly not the only one here who voices his pet peeves. I'm sorry if you feel like i'm singling you out, but yeah, i do have a problem with having to jump through all these hoops just to get a simple question answered. This isn't the first time i've had this complaint and you're not the first person i've had this complaint with.

Admittedly i asked a question that probably nobody cares about, and i would've been totally fine with that response, like "That's weird, but not much you can do with it" or "Yeah i've seen that happen in a matchvid but it seemed harmless" or call it plain boring. I wasn't expecting a 10-page discussion to come out of that tiny finding. Just don't try to act like you know something i don't, then keep it hidden behind apathetic tech support lingo.

edit: Hell, when this all started, i wasn't even trying to be critical per se. I was just pointing out an interesting/unexpected turn of events.

[felineki]

Random lazy question: Anyone have data on defense rankings for Vampire Hunter? I've seen the ones for Savior at several places, but have yet to come across any for Hunter.

[PimpWilly]

Circles are easier on computer code to determine collisions than squares, for two circles to determine if they collide you just find the distance apart from the 2 centers, and if the radius of the 2 hitboxes added together is less than the distance apart, its a hit. On a processor, this is really quick and easy to do, and for the most part pretty much how most 3d games outside of Fighting Games would do it. (insert generic Smash not a real fighter joke here)

With squares, its a bit harder. Since the distance from the center is variable on a square, it's harder to determine if two squares overlap. I forget the algorithm off the top of my head, but its a fair bit more complicated to try and think of something. So that's why most games would just use circles and call it a day (performance and ease of coding).

The hitbox display is personally interesting to me, but I like looking at games from the coding perspective and trying to dissect how they managed to put it all together myself

[error1]

who's is nu_? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGXgp7cU6EQ
the last combo makes me thing a r4 combo would be good for damage expo

[Maj]

Hm, name doesn't ring any bells but there's literally nothing new in that video. I mean it's advanced stuff execution-wise, but it looks like someone got ahold of a programmable controller and decided to reproduce Sai-Rec combos for no reason.

It's not too surprising considering the date listed in the description: 22/12/2007.

[desk]

Does SSFIV have a high-score leaderboard? Could someone with the 360 version check what the top score is for me?

boss!

[Maj]

All i see under XBL Leaderboards are Player Points and Battle Points. You can look up your own personal score records listed by character under Player Data, but i can't find any of that for anyone else. Then again i'm not exactly familiar with all this, so maybe i'm just not looking in the right place - but i checked pretty much everywhere.

[desk]

Thanks Maj, only been able to speak to 1 other person about that and they couldn't find anything either. Guess they don't have a leaderboard like they did in vanilla. They have records over at twin galaxies but there are clearly not enough people willing to submit stuff to them because the top score is double the 2nd place score. ergh!! I really wanted to do a run but there seems little point because no one else has really tried to do it.

[Maj]

Why not? It might get a lot of responses, if nothing else. Plus you might get lucky with search results generating a lot of views. That happens randomly with playthroughs pretty often.

[error1]

twin galaxies is kind of a joke.
I mean have you read there rules on "leaching"?
http://forums.twingalaxies.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=860

[onReload]

yeah it's all designed for the older school videogames... which really doesn't include fighting games.

[Doopliss]

twin galaxies is kind of a joke.
I mean have you read there rules on "leaching"?
http://forums.twingalaxies.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=860

That should really just go for games with infinite time.

[error1]

it doesn't though
http://www.twingalaxies.com/index.aspx? ... 411&vi=434
for example in smb you can jump on a turtle shell once or twice, but if you do it three times your disqualified.
My main problem with twin galaxies besides how arbitrary the rules can be, is that there is no quality check.
For example I could send them a video of me beating fallout 3 in two hours and they would probably give me a "world record" even though anything over an hour would be a horrible time, the judges can't tell if the time is any good or if I cheated because they've probably never played the game.
Also the judge is the only one who sees the video so if I was cheating and got a really good time there is no way to check it.
really tho the worst part is that they call themselves "official" which is pretty laughable considering how bad most of there records are.
for example this record had me laughing out loud
http://www.twingalaxies.com/index.aspx? ... 35&vi=1808
in 2001 he became the only person to achieve 100% completion of quake, which is probably the most popular pc game ever

[onReload]

If you've seen The King of Kong, it gives a lot of insight about the site/group; they're an older generation, more inclined to understand Donkey Kong and Burgertime, not Half-Life and such...should just leave that to SDA, eh?

[desk]

Yeah, a lot of the records aren't great. Worse, there's no competition on most of them to drive the scores up.

I think the way to go would be to do an 'entertainment' run while still beating the score but sacrificing loads of points. Then, I guess, if anyone can be bothered to beat it (unlikely) there's a huge amount of room for improvement.

[error1]

screw entertainment, go for broke
It would probably be more rewarding to do it in vanilla, that way you can say you beat Justin Wong with two combos.
It looked like it counts after 99 because the two 99 hit combos in the video had different scores
It seems like you should lose one round each match and make use of the full 3 rounds
I think it would be hilarious if you got the record breaking two million score in the first round and then just turttled the rest

[desk]

I've had a bunch of similar thoughts actually, I can't explain the points difference without examining the 2 combos but you might be right. It's weird though, because even in training mode with attack data on, it doesn't count higher than 99.

You're right, if I lose rounds I could literally build 50% more points over the run but I figured it would be quite boring to watch. Plus, just point pressing with that loop would be boring after a while too. I think, my first run at least, will be making sure to beat the current record but with as much 'fun' as possible. Hopefully without having to lose rounds and not point pressing in every match.

And what's the thing about Justin Wong? Does he hold the record in vanilla or something?

Random, but I have already beaten a bunch of the 'whole game run' scores on twin galaxies in a single combo, lol.

EDIT: That's also something I was thinking about dude and I might end up doing it. Just playing for points until I beat the score and then messing around until the end or I get bored and throw one of the matches, lol.

[error1]

j wong has a bunch of WR but I think he is third in xbox vanilla

[Buttermaker]

Anyone have data on defense rankings for Vampire Hunter?

Some attacks have a range of random damage. Some do the same damage against all opponents, e.g., light attacks and Demitri's Fireball.

I didn't test much, because the random damage is annoying.


Demitri's close HP

16-20 Anakaris, Phobos, Sasquatch, Victor
17-20 Aulbath, Bishamon, Demitri, Donovan, Pyron
17-21 Felicia, Gallon, Lei-Lei, Morrigan, Zabel


Demitri's close MP

13-16 Anakaris, Demitri, Donovan, Morrigan, Phobos, Sasquatch, Victor
14-17 Bishamon, Felicia, Gallon, Aulbath, Lei-Lei, Pyron, Zabel


Demitri's DP

18-21 Anakaris, Sasquatch, Victor
19-21 Phobos
19-22 Aulbath, Bishamon, Demitri, Donovan, Pyron
19-23 Felicia
20-23 Gallon, Lei-Lei, Morrigan, Zabel

[felineki]

Thanks, nice work. Yeah, VH (and presumably the original DS, though I don't know for certain) has random components in the damage much like SF2, making this sort of thing difficult to measure. One more property with regard to random damage carried over from SF2 is that once a character's life goes below a certain threshold, the random component of their attacks will change.

[Ultima]

One more property with regard to random damage carried over from SF2 is that once a character's life goes below a certain threshold, the random component of their attacks will change.

Could you expound on this please? Thanks.

[felineki]

It's something that I noticed when I was trying to decipher exactly how SF2 determines damage. Every attack box has 3 parameters that determine damage. As labeled in the Object Test menu that is accessible in the CPS1 SF2's, they are "Atck DNo", "Adjust1" and "Adjust2". Atck DNo determines the base damage. It actually points to a table of 32 different values. The exact value from this table of 32 that is chosen depends on the character's "handicap" parameter, which seems to fluctuate over the course of a match depending on their performance. (Long before I found out about this parameter coding-wise, I remember hearing about SF2 giving a slight "comeback" boost to a character that is losing badly). Adjust1 and Adjust2 both determine a random component that is added to the base damage. Like Atck DNo, these each also point to a table of 32 possible values. However, rather than being determined by the character's "handicap" parameter, the value from this table is chosen at random. Only one of these is used at a time: If the character's health is 60 or greater, then the Adjust1 table is used. If their health is 59 or lower, then the Adjust2 table is used. There's scaling that comes after that, based on the receiving character's defense value and remaining health, but that's how the initial number is determined.

Vampire Hunter contains text in its ROM for an Object Test menu much like the one in the CPS1 SF2's (although I don't know if the menu itself is accessible in any way). The text there seems to refer to "Adjust1" and Adjust2" values, just like SF2. Now, that alone doesn't really prove anything, but the ending notes in a Vampire Hunter combo video by TKO do state that when a character's health is low, the random component of their attacks' damage changes. Taking the leftover menu text into account, it would seem that it functions similarly to SF2.

As an aside, one thing I found interesting about this text in Vampire Hunter is that it includes labels for every basic animation and many character-specific animations. Presumably the appropriate label would be displayed in the Object Test menu as you viewed an animation. Also, the developer text contains no final character names at all, but instead placeholders like "MUMMY", "ZOMBIE", "CATWOMAN", etc.

[krusan]

Hi.
I have some questions I would like to be asked if posible. Sorry if those questions have been asked before or the answers are known. Both are regarding El Fuerte in SF4/SSF4, and both are regarding his loops.
I´m curious to know how many RSF hits can be achieved with tool assistance. I have seen vids of people doing around 15 by hand. If posible, I would like to know it with no stun, so there´s no dizzy in the middle of the combo, just RSF, no matter if it starts with a jumping attack or FA or wich char is the dummy. It would also be nice to know the same about the cMK loop or any other posible loops. Thanx in advance for any tool assisted combo-makers.
As a personal favour/christmas gift I would also like to know how many repetitions of those loops can desk or any other one with so godly execution do. Thanx in advance too.
Just two random lazy questions.

[Rufus]

Hi.
I have some questions I would like to be asked if posible. Sorry if those questions have been asked before or the answers are known. Both are regarding El Fuerte in SF4/SSF4, and both are regarding his loops.
I´m curious to know how many RSF hits can be achieved with tool assistance. I have seen vids of people doing around 15 by hand. If posible, I would like to know it with no stun, so there´s no dizzy in the middle of the combo, just RSF, no matter if it starts with a jumping attack or FA or wich char is the dummy. It would also be nice to know the same about the cMK loop or any other posible loops. Thanx in advance for any tool assisted combo-makers.
As a personal favour/christmas gift I would also like to know how many repetitions of those loops can desk or any other one with so godly execution do. Thanx in advance too.
Just two random lazy questions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAm4-9dmA0g
I might have gotten 19 hits vs Abel in vanilla once, but was unable to repeat. It's possible to loop infinitely with EX run and infinite meter in practice mode - so you can almost certainly get another 5 iterations if you sneak in EX run.

[krusan]

Thanx for the answer. I think the most I have done is 9, on practice, vs Ryu, starting with focus atack.
Anyway, I still would like to know, or even see, how many can be done with tool assistance, and if anyone can do more than 18 without it. Same thing with the more unusual (and hard) cMK loop. I have never done more than 3 and I have read that 5 is the max posible. I can combo 2 sMP in a row with RS, but I don´t know if more are posible with this or any other normal.
Thanx for anyone taking time to answer those not-so important questions.

[error1]

Anyway, I still would like to know, or even see, how many can be done with tool assistance, and if anyone can do more

no, and I think maj agrees with me on this one, he didn't put any RSF in his Fuerte tacv for a reason. We are the only two sf4 tasers that I can think of.

[krusan]

Ok, no problem at all. I was just curious.
Is there something wrong with that loop (I know it´s quite simple, un-impressive and well-known) and TAS or is just your personal preferences?

[Rufus]

Anyway, I still would like to know, or even see, how many can be done with tool assistance, and if anyone can do more than 18 without it.

I have a 'ppad': http://www.pedantic.org/~nate/HDR/controller/
Though it does seem to have timing issues with SF4.