Got any Questions about WW, CE, HF, SSF2, ST, HSF2, or HDR?

[Maj]

Haha nice. Reminds me of some of the stuff Neophos was doing before he mysteriously disappeared.

You gotta remember to turn off those XBL notifactions when you're recording combos though.

[Rufus]

You gotta remember to turn off those XBL notifactions when you're recording combos though.

I didn't know I could. Recording quality is kinda cruddy anyway.

...so can I get credit for the fireworks challenge?

[Maj]

Haha sure. Ready? Boom. You now have credit, real official-like.

[Dammit]

I was looking for something else the other day and found this:
http://www.smwcentral.net/?p=thread&id=33039

A romhack to show hitboxes in HF along with other random research.

[error1]

very cool stuff, interesting as the main reason for Hyper Fighting was to make it harder to hack

[Dammit]

Hyper Fighting runs too fast in MAME (?)

http://www.mametesters.org/view.php?id=408

[Maj]

I've heard people mention that before but never any definitive results, or what exactly accounts for the speed difference, or whether it influences emu scripting or only affects real time play. I always assumed the emulator community would figure it out eventually and let us know. I mean there's not much i could do to help personally, but i'm definitely interested in the findings/outcome. Please keep posting updates if anything interesting develops.

[Dammit]

Kind of a lazy question: What (arcade/console) versions have what bonus levels? And what versions let you play versus in the boss levels?

[Don Vecta]

Kind of a lazy question: What (arcade/console) versions have what bonus levels? And what versions let you play versus in the boss levels?

SF2/CE/HF/Super Arcade: Car (after 3 matches), dropping barrels (3 more matches), drum cans (between Boxer and Claw).
SF2 SNES: Pile of bricks (after 4 matches), Car (after other 4 matches).
SF2 HF SNES: Pile of bricks (after 3 matches), Car (after 3 matches), Dropping barrels (between Boxer and Claw).

Super Turbo had no bonuses.

Technically you could fight at any boss level in all the SF2 series... as long you haven't defeated a boss in their home (saw Claw in Spain). If during the versus batch someone have used a boss (or any other character) and lost (say Boxer, i.e.)then the stage of that person will never show up as the gameplay goes by (so you won't see Las Vegas during the whole game) excepting Dictator stage, no matter if you beat Dictator during a versus match, him and his stage will still appear as last bosses (in fact, in case everyone used each and every character of the game, the last stage you'd be playing all the time would be Dictator's Thailand).

Oh, take in notice also that if you are using a character and you are in its stage (say Blanka and you are in Brazil) but are not defeated at all, you'll continue fighting in Brazil until someone beats you.

[Maj]

WW through SSF2 had bonus stages. ST, HSF2, and HDR did not.

All the arcade versions have the same bonus levels: Car, Falling Barrels, Oil Drums. The 16-bit consoles (Genesis/SNES) removed the Oil Drums stage and instead had Car, Brick Wall, Falling Barrels. The 32-bit consoles (Saturn/PSX) restored the original arcade stages.

The only version of ST with bonus stages is the Dreamcast version, and needless to say it is glitchfest.

edit: Looks like Vecta beat me to it. As far as the boss levels go, once you get to Bison's stage in WW through HF, you're pretty much stuck there until you start the game over. Then in SSF2 and ST, once you reach Bison's stage, the game starts taking you to the winning character's stage. So if you pick Bison and have the other player join in, you'll fight on Bison's stage. There's no way to arrange a versus match on Bison's stage without picking Bison. And as far as i know, there's no way whatsoever to have an arcade ST versus match on Akuma's stage (with Bison laying dead in the background). Obviously the console versions let you pick whatever stage you want in Versus Mode, but i don't think Akuma's stage was ever available.

[Dammit]

Huh, I guess I never remeber seeing the oil cans in the SNES games. It's like "the 16-bit fire marshal took away our flaming cans, but we got this nice pile of concrete bricks for you to punch!" I wonder if they took them away in ST to avoid glitches or to avoid interrupting vs mode.

I was trying to control the BGs (without cheats) when I was doing the hitbox screenshots but there wasn't that many duplicates anyway. Good to know though.

[Don Vecta]

heh, gotta luv simultaneous replies.

Yeah, Gouki had no stage but would be Vega's stage with him beaten up in the middle... but i guess besides that there's no difference, technically it's still Dictator's stage (and pwned in his own stage, to add insult to the injury).

Oil cans never made it in the 16-bit games... not even in the betas. In fact, the first image of the bonus stage was the pile of bricks instead.

It's interesting that even with the huge difference between the pile of bricks and the drum cans, the pile of bricks still had some interesting bugs out there.

But yeah, only in console mode you can stage select ANY stage. In arcade you must go as we said above until Thailand.

[error1]

I was asked this question on u2b

xCurvx

Street Fighter Anniversary Collection question
Hey error, how's it going? I have a question about the Anniversary Collection game (Xbox version):

To be sure first, the AI/CPU is designed to do instant inputs correct? That way, for example, AI Zangief's piledriver ALWAYS grabs you since its done on the first frame, and basically Supers are done this way too correct? If that is so, here's the main question:

I was watching the demo fights that show if one is on the main menu for a while (how it switches from high score list to 2 CPU's fighting like Ryu vs Ken, Blanka vs Dhalsim, etc.) While I was editing some videos, I think I heard CPU Ryu perform (or attempt to) a Hadouken, and the CPU Ken does what appears to be a reversal Super. Since in the link you showed me earlier (and in the video you uploaded a while back), Ken and Sagat can't do Reversal Supers correct? If that is true, that would explain what happened next:

The fight froze XD Ryu and Ken were frozen, Ken in his frozen Super animation and Ryu unable to move. This was an interesting glitch to see in real time, but I want to know, does this usually happen in opening demos, or is this just a very rare glitch?

Thanks in advance for any info!

Re: Street Fighter Anniversary Collection question
Dhalsim, Sagat, and Ken can't do reversal supers, normaly the last move they did comes out instead.
It's not a glitch I've heard of, do you know if ken getting up/ getting hit /blocking before hand? Did the reversal message appear?

I'm not familiar with the Anniversary Collection, I'll check if anyone else has seen it. It would come up pretty often if it was present in the arcade version, basically if you left the cabinet on over night it would be frozen about once a moth or something.

[ilitirit]

I've heard people mention that before but never any definitive results, or what exactly accounts for the speed difference, or whether it influences emu scripting or only affects real time play. I always assumed the emulator community would figure it out eventually and let us know. I mean there's not much i could do to help personally, but i'm definitely interested in the findings/outcome. Please keep posting updates if anything interesting develops.

Someone tested it and found differences on original boards:

I have two cabinets, both are dedicated with original cps1 hardware in them. The second cabinet I bought, cabinet number two for the sake of conversation here, is noticeably faster than cabinet number one. They are both, to repeat myself for clarity, official and proper original cps1 boards.

I have also come across people talking about the variation in speed amongst different cps1 Hyper Fighting units on the internet before. It's pretty well documented. So there really isn't a difinitive answer to how long a round takes on a cps1 board. There is a range and it varies.

I tested both of mine in the manner that Poda described, starting when "Fight" disappears and stopping when the zeros stop flashing. I tested cab 1 five times and cab 2 only 3 times because I felt I did a better job with them and because it was getting a bit boring lol.

Cab 1: 56.38 56.19 56.52 56.24 56.34 (I think I did the worst job on the two lowest ones, the .19 and .24)

Cab 2: 52.87 53.13 52.94

http://shoryuken.com/f2/sf2-hyper-fight ... ost9595663

[Don Vecta]

Can anybody explain me how this hey hey hey bug happens? Check at 4:29 onwards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-o2kE7db9M

[felineki]

Some relevant info here. It looks like once you've started that scrolling phenomenon (itself a variant of Guile's infamous Handcuffs/Magic Throw techniques), there are several possible resulting effects, the "Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey!" thing presumably being one of them.

[Dammit]

What was the problem with HSF2 besides the balance chaos? Something about bad controls?

[Maj]

There was a problem with some charge moves not coming out consistently. Maybe it was a console-only issue though. I don't remember the details, but luckily i found an old SRK discussion where Graham and i went over it - although i don't remember having that conversation either. Man, there were some seriously oldschool people posting in that thread back then.

Also in Super Turbo, new characters can tech throws from both new characters and old characters, whereas old characters can't tech throws at all. In HSF2, they made it so ST new characters can only tech other ST new characters' throws. That means they can't tech throws performed by characters in any other mode, including ST old characters. That annoyed people.

[Dammit]

Thanks.

I couldn't detect any difference experimentally:

Code: Select all

# claw walldive execution test
# ssf2t, turbo 0, zangief stage, claw vs. dic
&4 W10 _D,W70*,_U._4,W20*! works
&4 W10 _D,W70*,_4._U,W20*! fails

# hsf2, turbo 0, zangief stage, ST claw vs. ST dic
&4 W10 _D,W70*,_U._4,W20*! works
&4 W10 _D,W70*,_4._U,W20*! fails

So it could be a console version thing.

[ilitirit]

I don't know if this is the best place to ask, but does anyone have a decent Infinite Health cheat for any of the SFII games? All the cheats I know of cause funny hitstun issues. The best I could come up with was setting the health to max but it still runs down eventually.

[Dammit]

I happened to look into this a little while ago: http://www.mamecheat.co.uk/forums/viewt ... f=4&t=4103

It won't work in the FBA engine. But it can still be done with a Lua script like this: http://lua.pastey.net/150118

[ilitirit]

Thanks, looks like it's working.

There seems to be one problem though, but I didn't test it fully. I think you're supposed to get one extra frame advantage on the first hit of a combo. But it looks like with this cheat the combo hit-counter doesn't reset until they finally go into that slow knockdown animation, so there seems to be a few combos that should work but don't.

In any case, your cheats are much better than the ones distributed with most cheat engines.

[Dammit]

Can you give a setup that combos without but not with?

On a different note, am I off base with how "startup" includes the 1st active frame?
http://code.google.com/p/macrolua/wiki/ ... taExamples

Also, the business with the SFA2 super startup is not telling the whole story and needs more work...

[Maj]

SF4 was the first Street Fighter game to use the "pre-active plus one" definition of startup. Everyone else hates that shit. All existing frame data for SF2, SF3, SFA, CvS, and Marvel series' counts startup as the inactive frames before the first active frame.

If it was up to me, i'd stick to the old definition to avoid confusion. To me the "covenience" of the new format isn't worth the cost of referring back to old threads/articles and not knowing which definition they're using. But if you want to make it easier (in the short term) for the SF4 crowd, that's up to you.

[Rufus]

SF4 was the first Street Fighter game to use the "pre-active plus one" definition of startup. Everyone else hates that shit. All existing frame data for SF2, SF3, SFA, CvS, and Marvel series' counts startup as the inactive frames before the first active frame.

I think part of the issue is that most of the on-line info is just copied from somewhere else, and there are a small number of 'original' sources. So whatever that original author does goes.

[ShinjiGohan]

There was a problem with some charge moves not coming out consistently. Maybe it was a console-only issue though. I don't remember the details, but luckily i found an old SRK discussion where Graham and i went over it - although i don't remember having that conversation either. Man, there were some seriously oldschool people posting in that thread back then.

Also in Super Turbo, new characters can tech throws from both new characters and old characters, whereas old characters can't tech throws at all. In HSF2, they made it so ST new characters can only tech other ST new characters' throws. That means they can't tech throws performed by characters in any other mode, including ST old characters. That annoyed people.

lil late, but IIRC it was vegas wall dive that wouldn't come out consistantly in the original console version. Like you have to hold straight down for the charge and no charge back. However this was fixed in the capcore version IIRC. IIRC my brother might have also mentioned something about o.sagats fireballs being closer to the right speed or something as well. But the arcade version was correct.

[Maj]

I think part of the issue is that most of the on-line info is just copied from somewhere else, and there are a small number of 'original' sources. So whatever that original author does goes.

The fact remains that the definition of startup was consistent for 15 years before the SF4 guide author came along and fucked it all up. The only point i'm trying to make is that if you wrote an article analyzing some startup data last month, and Dammit changes the definition for SF2 now, then you write another article next week, how am i supposed to understand your articles 5 years from now?

Personally, i hate the fact that talking about SF4 startup data forces me to complicate every one of my sentences with "becomes active on the N+1th frame" instead of just being able to say "has N startup." But i write about old and new games on my website, so there's no other way to keep it straight.

I don't blame the SF4 crowd for using a different definition, but i hate the guy who started that shit.

[error1]

I noticed all the super and ultra command throws are listed as 1+0 when I'm pretty sure they should be 0+1
How does tekken and vf frame data look? I wonder if they changed it to be more in line with those

[Doopliss]

I noticed all the super and ultra command throws are listed as 1+0 when I'm pretty sure they should be 0+1

No, there's 1 frame of start-up before/during freeze, none after.

[error1]

yeah but all the start up numbers are, actual startup +1 so if that was the case it would be 1+1, in actuality there are no frames of startup before the first active frame, the super freeze is different for command throws, no slowmotion movement