Got any Questions about SFA, A2, Z2A, A3, A3U, or HSFA?

[onReload]

Jojo's might be done too. Hard to say because there's so much potential in that game, but I've seen some pretty insane videos for it.

Personally I've only seen a handful of insane Japanese combo vids that involve exploits or glitches I don't understand. I don't think (at the very least, from the American side) the game is anywhere near being done explored. I love the game to death (not just for what it's based on) but I know that you can take that shit over one knee and break it in half. Hell, I'd love to see a good "useful combos" video - every time I see a vid for the game, I relearn that I don't know shit about how to really play it - I'll pick up one or two things, but eh. Your notes on it taught me way more than playing on 2df did - not too many (if any) real players on there. If you're interested in working on a JJBA tutorial vid, that would be awesome - I say "that would be awesome" instead of "let me know", because I only know tidbits about the game that I'm sure you have covered. I was thinking of doing a Khan tutorial just to get somebody or anybody interested in the game ("Oh hey, this game exists...") because he's so damn simple, even I can understand how to play with him.

I still have to figure out what's wrong with that demo recording thing, so I can show you that insane glitchfest that happened to me on 2df - unless you have it and want me to link you to the replay, or replay file - whichever is possible.

[Xenozip.]

Well the thing about Jojo's is that if you dig deep enough you CAN find every practical combo for every character, both combo video form, and in some cases match video form. Some match videos even have impractical situational stuff that's still technically valid. The BBC guy who's probably (presumably) the best in Japan has videos for the whole cast.

I put together a bunch of replays for R.Soul, only to realize by the end of it that it had all already been done. And then I felt like dropping it because I didn't really want to explore the impractical/obscure/situational stuff. Though certainly there is a lot, but therein lies the problem, I suppose.

Trivia: You're vulnerable to throws during pushblock, lol.

[onReload]

Well the thing about Jojo's is that if you dig deep enough you CAN find every practical combo for every character, both combo video form, and in some cases match video form. Some match videos even have impractical situational stuff that's still technically valid. The BBC guy who's probably (presumably) the best in Japan has videos for the whole cast.

I put together a bunch of replays for R.Soul, only to realize by the end of it that it had all already been done. And then I felt like dropping it because I didn't really want to explore the impractical/obscure/situational stuff. Though certainly there is a lot, but therein lies the problem, I suppose.

Trivia: You're vulnerable to throws during pushblock, lol.

Yeah didn't I mention that happening at one point? The guy was like 2 character lengths away (using Dio, which stops time during the throw) and you could see my damn pushblock graphic as he grabbed, well, air...and threw me against the wall.

I feel like making this game more accessible to non-Japanese audiences is a fine idea; in general, in the internet, yes, the game has enough situational stuff and I'll have to check on your practical combo stuff from BBC. I personally would like explanations on the glitches and how to do them (just learned Stand-OFF Install from the thread on SRK that I stupidly never found before today), and nice, clean tutorials for each character. It's funny, trying to tell someone about the game: "Well, some characters have active stands, some don't...and some of the active stands are remote stands...and two of the -- you know what, it's kind of all jumbled up..."

[Xenozip.]

I think it's a game people have to try playing before trying to understand. Though just watching the gameplay should be a strong enough impression for people to know if they want to try it or not. All I really needed was one match video between S.Dio and Y.Jo and that was enough for me personally. Either it clicks or it doesn't, IMO.

I did find a lot of technical quirks about the game which you know, but I haven't bothered researching glitches, or the combo system, because it never mattered for the characters I play. I knew how to play them from observing match videos and that was enough for me. I can say though, that there are some moves that can't be airteched, like R.Soul's j.S simply can not be airteched. There may be others, but I don't know them. I also know that you're instantly able to airblock after airtechning, but you're only allowed to perform 1 action like MvC2, so airblocking eats up that action, meaning there are legitimate tech-traps in the game.

Unfortunately I think most attacks don't persist if the person is hit during the move, which means you can't do any combo-interruption combos unless they involve trades, which isn't too exciting.

Perhaps then the more interesting combos would involve guard reversals and pushblock combos, in the sense that they are only possible by using those techniques. And, of course, running in front of fireballs (uhg, why not). And lastly, finding legitimate tech trap setups that are "outside the norm".

[onReload]

I did find a lot of technical quirks about the game which you know, but I haven't bothered researching glitches, or the combo system, because it never mattered for the characters I play. I knew how to play them from observing match videos and that was enough for me. I can say though, that there are some moves that can't be airteched, like R.Soul's j.S simply can not be airteched. There may be others, but I don't know them. I also know that you're instantly able to airblock after airtechning, but you're only allowed to perform 1 action like MvC2, so airblocking eats up that action, meaning there are legitimate tech-traps in the game.

Yes, I got trapped by a Hol Horse player today, and have seen many people eat all of Dio's aerial Blazing Fists due to tech-traps. I wish I understood it a bit better, and was a bit more patient so I'd avoid them.

[Xenozip.]

Well there's a start JoJo's Bizarre Adventure: ドイツ クラッシュ.

[Dark_Chaotix]

Well in replies to this, i was hoping someone would like to do a ps1 version cos a) i dont think it is done before and b) alot more limited so be good to come up with something good.

Ive always wanted to play the arcade / DC version but never have.

[Xenozip.]

A3 is actually more balanced now than it was before. Although V-Ism did help the top tier characters it also assisted the majority of the cast in a lot of ways. Rolento use to be good because of his c.HP and his anti-air options, but the natural conclusion to that was Dhalsim pretty much dominating. Even though we like to say A3 is broken because of unblockables and infinites, four of the top five characters don't have infinites and rarely utilize unblockables. In fact if you banned V-Ism it'd be more broken because of how busted Dhalsim and Sakura are. You have to consider that some of the worst characters in the game have unblockables and infinites and OTGs and yet they are still the worst characters in the game by far and away, while the best characters don't work like that.

Of course most of the game seems broken because there's so many things that look really ridiculous in theory, like full GC VCs and such, but pretty much every seemingly busted aspect of the game has a direct counter/escape to it which makes it not that big of a deal.

I'm pretty sure what really killed it is a combination of the learning curve gaps and the fact that it's -- quite honestly -- kind of a boring game.

[onReload]

The V-Ism thing is what makes it boring and broken to me. I love how many characters are involved and how many supers they came up with, but to have it only seem viable to use a custom-combo base is...bleh. I didn't mean to say that it seemed unbalanced character-wise...I think CvS2 did a better job on the whole play-style option type thing. Though I wish you could mix and match (like have a team of A-Bison, K-Cammy, C-Sagat), even if that wouldn't really make sense meter-wise between rounds.

[Xenozip.]

The meter thing could be handled like it was in CFJ between the different games.

Also my point was that without V-Ism the game would be garbage. With V-ism it doesn't actually break the game, because unblockables/infinites/OTGs/GCs aren't broken because they are all escapable/avoidable. They don't even make any of the characters that have them better than the top tier chars that don't have them. They just look broken in theory, and in practice they piss people off who aren't use to dealing with them or don't know how to deal with them, but those that can deal with it don't care as much.

See, to me it's like saying that Urien and Makoto broke 3rd Strike, when they didn't. That isn't to say the game isn't boring though, because I think it is, but I really don't feel any aspect of it is actually broken.

[Maj]

The problem with A3 is you have some breathtakingly amazing moments in matches, but for whatever reason those moments are the exception because the game kinda runs on autopilot by default. Unfortunately it's not easy to figure out what to blame because if you took away starting full meter then there'd be a lot more running away to build meter at the beginning of the game. Yeah i don't know why it's so predictable sometimes and so dynamic other times, but there's definitely potential for a great game in there somewhere cuz they got a lot of things right.

[Buttermaker]

four of the top five characters don't have infinites

http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php ... ost7656735

[Xenozip.]

http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php ... ost7656735

Yeah. Feels like we've discussed this before. I still don't think Karin's really A tier. I mean the list was last updated in 2004. IMO it's open to interpretation. I don't think anyone argues Akuma/Sak/Sim though.

I ain't saying it's wrong or I'm right. Just IMO infinites don't automatically make a char top tier, as with my example in that thread of Birdie being bottom tier despite having unblockable high-low/unblockable grab/OTG/infinite/etc.

[onReload]

I think my biggest problem is custom combo systems in general...I like them in A2: even though they do WAY too much damage, they're quick and simple...but in A3, choosing to use them means you don't get to use regular supers. Not as interesting, to me, but it's not like I've ever gotten a shot to play A3 competitively.

[Buttermaker]

I mean the list was last updated in 2004.

Looks like 2007 to me. Where are you getting 2004 from?

[Xenozip.]

From what it was before that. The page says 2007 on it but the list hasn't changed much since then.

What's your point, anyway? I stated mine.

[Buttermaker]

I'm not arguing against your point about infinites. I just don't think the old top tier of Akuma, Dhalsim, Ryu, Sakura and Zangief is appropriate anymore.

there needs to be an archive of now-obsolete-commonly-thought-best tactics from fighting games. I love hearing this stuff 'cause I'm so new to the whole scene thing, so everything is already prepared to tell me which one to use where. I dig hearing about who used to be best in MvC2, or what people did in A3 before it broke in half

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.game ... 94f115dbe8

[onReload]

Wow, this is crazy, thanks..though I'm sure you're embarrassing more than a few people with this. '98...

[Buttermaker]

Sorry, James. I hope you don't mind. =D

[Maj]

I think the biggest problem i have with A3 is how hard it is to decide whether this (or any other like it) is a good combo.

What's the best SFA3 combovid out there?

[Dark_Chaotix]

out of hte CMV ive collected, teh SFTeam (south american??) made some good stuff but didnt like their music choice. JChensor made some good stuff too but that was way back in the day when i got these so there might of been better / newer ones. Middlekicks R.mika is still a stand out for me.

Overall, I still think xenozips tut vids are better then any combo vid.

That combo must be tool assisted...Gen kicks are hard to do.

[Maj]

Some of that old stuff by jchensor and SFTeam is pretty good but there's no way in hell that's the best SFA3 can do. In fact, most of the V-Ism stuff that jchensor did was meant to be practical match combos.

[Keiko]

Look forward for the X-Combo SFZ3 Exhibition, is by far one of the best a3 vids out there.
Or the old and classics V-Ryu Exhibitions (The Lemmings) vids.

[Maj]

You mean this one?

Street Fighter Alpha/Zero 3 X-Combo Video Vol 3 by Kireek and Lzhxx

It's got some dope combos but it seems like the same formula over and over. The only thing i don't like is all the escapable VC crouch cancel infinites he used. I don't even see the point of showing those. They're almost as bad as airthrow "infinites." Actually since this video was clearly tool-assisted, they're just as bad imo.

There are a few minor things i liked though, like the whiffed LP DP at 4:44, Chun's Taunt at 5:03 to mask down-charge, and Guy's corner flipthrow setups at 5:43. Dan's white silhouette finish at 7:07 was pretty dope too. Honda's post-KO s.HP at 8:37 was a nice touch. Gen poison interrupt setup at 9:50 was nice too, though i can't tell if it's a real thing or not. Putting Juni right at the center of the superfinish vortex at 10:13 looked cool.

Yeah, good video but waaay too much filler. 10+ minute combo videos are not a great idea anymore.

[Xenozip.]

The only thing i don't like is all the escapable VC crouch cancel infinites he used. I don't even see the point of showing those.

Huh? In the video you linked the only escapable v-ism combos were Cody's and R.Mika's, and R.Mika's wasn't a crouch cancel inf.

There was some unintentional escapable stuff with A-Ism and X-ism though, actually I think there was more invalid A-ism/X-ism combos than there were V-ism.

[Maj]

Yeah those two and Bison at 1:24. And yeah, some A/X stuff too. Not trying to sound overly critical, but those three VC's add up to over a minute and i think the video would be significantly better without them cuz they're boring.

[Xenozip.]

Well the point of showing Cody's was probably because it's a valid tech-trap, so even if they do air tech it they can't block it and escaping it is character-dependent. There's only a handful of characters that can legitimately escape it. Therefor you could argue that it's valid on roughly half the cast (but, yeah, invalid on the other half).

The R.Mika one was probably just a little mistake they overlooked, just like the Zangief one.

That's still just two crouch cancel combos, and one unintentional mistake (which is no different than the unintentional a-ism/x-ism fuckups). And he skipped the crouch cancelling loops, too.

[Maj]

So what are the best A3 combovids you've seen?

[Xenozip.]

Hmm I guess the Lemmings stuff is the only thing that sticks out in my mind.

The problem with the SFA3 system is that style and technical-practicalities don't blend well, or blending it is just really unnatural or abstract, but the Lemmings videos pulled that off reasonably well in both departments (by being really abstract).

I don't think people have tried making videos using the SFAA version of SFA3 with the dipswitches set to match the arcade version enough. With that, the training dummy has the ability to auto-tech, which avoids invalids. That basically forces you to find valid ways to juggle in A-ism/X-ism, or valid setups in V-ism. If that sort of thing was done to death then more people would be looking for interesting/unique stuff. But, that's not happening.

[Keiko]

Yeah, good video but waaay too much filler. 10+ minute combo videos are not a great idea anymore.

I have the same problem with this kind of 10+minutes overproduced videos, the video is not the best, but have some interesting stuff imo.
The Lemmings vids (Vol.1 & 3) are my favourites and the best a3 combo videos.
BTW, there was a volumen 2 of the lemmings vids?, i never seen it before, just only 1 & 3.