Got any Questions about WW, CE, HF, SSF2, ST, HSF2, or HDR?

[Smileymike101]

In SF2HDR, why do some chunli 3 hit combos only register as 2 hits?For example J.HP,cl.mk,sweep.It says 2 hit combo, but the cpu is on autoblock, and it's clearly a 3 hit combo, but only registers as 2 hit.Same thing with cl.mp, cl.mp, sweep.
Also, sometimes, cr.mk, sweep doesnt register as a combo at all.But the cpu gets tripped, and it's on autoblock.WTF?
What gives?

Edited because it has been made into a thread about sf2.Sweet.

[Maj]

I asked the same exact question a while ago and nobody answered. I think their autoblocking system is flawed. You gotta remember, they basically hacked together Training Mode as an extra feature at the last minute. Don't trust autoblocking; just focus on the combo counter for links.

[Maj]

Btw i think there's no such thing as "active threads" on this forum. It's gonna get the same effective number of views everywhere. There are too few of us and not enough posts per day for anything to really get lost. If someone knows the answer to a question, it'll get answered no matter where you post it.

[Smileymike101]

The CPU not autoblocking correcting might be true for some cases, but the thing is, cl.mp links into sweep, and cl.mp and cl.mp also combo ,so it's a real combo, but the whole thing shows up only as a 2 hit combo instead of 3.Also, balrog's super has juggle of 4+, but it's usless considering you cant juggle into it, except after super...so yeah....

[Maj]

If it doesn't show up on the combo counter, then you're mistiming it. At this point the only way to prove that a real combo doesn't show up on the combo counter is to do it in Versus Mode and have the opposing character block manually.

And yeah, a lot of characters in ST have Balrog's juggle problem - Guile, Honda, Blanka, etc.

[Smileymike101]

Also, is it possible, in HDR, to cancel a normal move into super?I mean i know it's possible, but i've tried like 3 days straight with EVERY char.I even used the stored super with honda and chun to only press ONE button to activate the super, but no use.I cannot, for the love of god, cancel into super a normal.How can it be done?

[Maj]

Yeah, it's different in ST. They made it easy from SFA onward.

ST Super Canceling Techniques

[Rufus]

It occurs to me that if the game skips a frame to turbo on a frame where a player would have to change his input, it could lead to 'unblockables' in HDR:

For example, if Dhalsim throws a fireball at Balrog (Boxer) and Balrog is standing and blocking, then Balrog's hitboxes move back. If Dhalsim teleports so that the fireball is in the area that Balrog would normally occupy before the skipped frame, and the skipped frame is the first one where Dhalsim has switched sides, then it seems like Balrog would be unable to block. He can't switch directions before the skipped frame because that means eating the fireball, and if he doesn't switch sides, then he gets hit on the skipped frame. (This particular scenario can, of course, be avoided with an advanced technique like crouching block.) Akuma's air fireball may also be well-suited to this sort of thing.

Does anyone have any insight or testing information about this?

[error1]

Can the turn around animation not be block canceled? If so then you could probably make some unblockables without turbo. But if it skips the first frame where it hits him wouldn't make sense for it to hit him on that frame. Might be worth trying.

[Rufus]

Can the turn around animation not be block canceled? If so then you could probably make some unblockables without turbo. But if it skips the first frame where it hits him wouldn't make sense for it to hit him on that frame. Might be worth trying.

You can block/whatever cancel the turn around, but you AFAICT can't change your input on the skipped frame.
HDR runs 'internally' at 75 frames per second at turbo 3, but only accepts 60 inputs per second, so there are 15 frames where the game doesn't take new user input to determine what it does at those times, so, if you create a situation where someone has to change their input during exactly one of those 15 frames in order to block...

[Maj]

Wow, that might actually be a true unblockable, since teleport moves aren't instant. You could time the side switch frame to coincide with the fireball reaching the target. Then again, teleport/projectile mixups are 50/50 anyway so most characters can avoid them or otherwise concede the damage and make up for it some other way. It's weird, but i really don't think these turbo issues hurt ST in terms of the big picture.

[Rufus]

It's weird, but i really don't think these turbo issues hurt ST in terms of the big picture.

Yeah, at best, they make a 50/50 mixup into a 60/40 mix-up, since it's 1 frame in 5 that's skipped. Also easily avoided in most circumstances with stuff like walking forward before blocking or switching to a crouch block. More-or-less just an innocuous glitch that might be cute in some sort of video. Alas, 'sim's teleport is too slow for it to work easily.

[Rufus]

In SF2HDR, why do some chunli 3 hit combos only register as 2 hits?For example J.HP,cl.mk,sweep.It says 2 hit combo, but the cpu is on autoblock, and it's clearly a 3 hit combo, but only registers as 2 hit.Same thing with cl.mp, cl.mp, sweep.
Also, sometimes, cr.mk, sweep doesnt register as a combo at all.But the cpu gets tripped, and it's on autoblock.WTF?
What gives?

AFAICT jumping fierce, close forward (link) sweep should be a nombo with Chun.
I messed around in training mode the other day, and noticed that this hitcounter issue happens less (though it still happens) at turbo 0. It's definitely possible to get the combo counter to show it some of the time.
AFAICT You shouldn't be able to link Chun's close forward kick to her crouching roundhouse in a combo like that.
Crouching forward -> Crouching roundhouse is - as far as I can tell - a 2-frame link without the 'first hit bonus'.
It may well be that the combo counter doesn't account for the first hit bonus, so links that are really 'just frame' aren't counted. This should be relatively testable with a programmable controller at turbo 0.
It may also be that the autoblocker only starts inputting blocks when hitstun ends, and then gets clipped by turboskipping...
If this is repeatable, it could make for an amusing video: Pause to show autoblock is on, and then cr forward x2 -> cr roundhouse with no combo sign.

[Smileymike101]

Yes it is repeatable.I get j.hp cr.mk sweep shown as a 2 hit combo all the time.

[Rufus]

Yes it is repeatable.I get j.hp cr.mk sweep shown as a 2 hit combo all the time.

cl.mk = close medium kick
cr.mk = crouching medium kick.
(Not a big deal - probably a typo in the post.)

[Smileymike101]

No i meant crouching medium kick.

[Maj]

Why are programmable controllers necessary for this? Just go to Training Mode (or VS Mode), set Opponent's Behavior to Human Controlled, and then try to see if you can get the combo to happen without the counter showing up.

All i did was hold D with my left ring finger and press MK/HK with my left index finger, then press DB on the other controller with my right hand inbetween button presses with my left. Tried 50 times and never got the opponent to get hit by c.HK after c.MK without the "2 Hit Combo" message showing up.

Auto Block is broken.

[Rufus]

So, tinkering with my newly built programmable controller I've discovered that the game still has 'walk-forward sonic booms'. Any charge back -> forward move can be done after holding down both directions, and player 1 will walk to the right if both directions are held. (You can do this on a Ryu1999 pad style controller, but not on a normal d-pad.)

I guess the easiest way to use this is with Guile for various double sonic boom tricks.

[CPS2]

So they just removed it for analogue + dpad, but it still works with 2 directions on a dpad? People could still rig up their controllers pretty easily to abuse that. Just in HDR right?

You could even have your 7th and 8th buttons mapped to digital directions.

[Rufus]

So they just removed it for analogue + dpad, but it still works with 2 directions on a dpad? People could still rig up their controllers pretty easily to abuse that. Just in HDR right? You could even have your 7th and 8th buttons mapped to digital directions.

I haven't tested any other games. Discovered the HDR version by accident working on charge time testing. Definitely works with most of the characters who have charge moves. Button-Direction mapping is probably easiest with wiring changes. On an SE/TE that means a screwdriver to open the case and a $0.50 hook clip lead. for the wiring unless you want to make it semi-permanent.

It does lead to me wondering about stuff like {Sonic Boom, walk forward crouching short x2} as an infinite loop in HDR.

[Smileymike101]

Oh god somebody NEEDS to try an infinite with Guile in HDR that way.

[Maj]

I don't think c.LK x2 works, but standing jab low jab does.

[Rufus]

I guess it would be 2x cr strong - cr strong xx Sonic Boom, but I don't think the sonic boom will combo then... or cr strong, close fierce xx sonic boom.

Walk-forward sonic boom/whatever appears to be from the left only.

Wow, projectile slowdown is *really obnoxious* when trying to do stuff with a programmable controller.

Edit: So I tried what I could, and was unable to get an infinite. There's just too much pushback.

[Rufus]

Does anybody know what the requirements for redizzys in HDR/Super Turbo are?

[Dammit]

Did a little research on ST.

There are (at least) two relevant values, which I'll call dizzy level (DL) and dizzy timer (DT), that increase when you get hit.

You get dizzy when DL passes some threshold, then it's reset to zero. Different moves increase it by different amounts. DL is increased by ~2 for a jab, ~8 for a sweep, and ~24 for Gief's headbutt. There's some randomness.

DT increases are proportional to those amounts. DT counts down by one per frame and if it reaches zero, DL is reset to zero. Some moves cause so little DT increase that nobody recovers before it reaches zero.

Save this as a text file:

Code: Select all

FF84AB P1|dizzy|level
FF84AD P1|dizzy|timer
FF88AB P2|dizzy|level
FF88AD P2|dizzy|timer
| |

Open ST in FBA-rr and go to Misc > RAM Watch. Click load and select the file. Then you can see what I mean.

It doesn't seem like the values will increase if the victim is comboed while dizzy.

[Rufus]

Did a little research on ST.
...
It doesn't seem like the values will increase if the victim is comboed while dizzy.

Awesome sauce.

After I posted, I did some experimenting, and in HDR I've been able to get redizzies against Sagat with:
Sonic Boom -> (Walk Forward) Sonic Boom -> Close Fierce Punch xx (Walk Forward) Sonic Boom (Dizzy) ->
Sonic Boom -> (Walk Forward) Sonic Boom -> Close Fierce Punch xx (Walk Forward) Sonic Boom -> Backfist (~50% Redizzy) ->
Sonic Boom -> (Walk Forward) Sonic Boom -> Close Fierce Punch xx (Walk Forward) Sonic Boom
which is an almost-infinite. For whatever reason, it's really hard to get that backfist to come out.

[Xenozip.]

So.. what's Chun's good/consistent anti-air in ST?

Well, that's probably a stupid question, but I was trying to figure it out on my own and even after looking at the hitboxes and experimenting I can't figure it out. Actually I'm kinda dumbfounded, so I have to ask, what version of her tenshokyaku is good for anti-air/reversal? Some one told me to use MK version for everything and it feels so not-right. I'll take anything anyone has to say about anything regarding chun though.

Trying to unravel the secrets of Chun.

[Rufus]

So.. what's Chun's good/consistent anti-air in ST?

IIRC they're all situational. This is a good question to look up at http://www.shoryuken.com/

[Xenozip.]

Oh yeah, I feel stupid, over 5k posts since '04 and it's the last place I think of.

Mehhh.. it's not urgent, I'll look at the ST thread later.

[Rufus]

Oh god somebody NEEDS to try an infinite with Guile in HDR that way.

This is the closest I've gotten:
http://www.pedantic.org/~nate/HDR/combos/sbcombo.flv