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Street Fighter V Combo Engine Investigation
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 2:32 am
by pepopulo
Non started it, so I might just aswell do it
Game doesn't have too much combo depth into it, but I'm finding some weird numbers on Karin's juggle points,like for example her cr.LP has 1 jp,her double kick special is also a bit weird and I'd need to test it more, but I'm 100% sure right now that, at least the lk version, first hit doesn't increase jp, second hit increases it by 1
and I'm 30% sure that all of her ex palm launcher lunches normally but raises jp by 2 when used in a juggle and her regular and just frame add like 3 meaby? I dunno, I have a lot of things to figure out.
Re: Street Fighter V Combo Engine Investigation
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:53 am
by Dark_Chaotix
Im new to this "juggle potential" talk, as I never come across it before. What does it mean?
Re: Street Fighter V Combo Engine Investigation
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:11 am
by Doopliss
Dark_Chaotix wrote:Im new to this "juggle potential" talk, as I never come across it before. What does it mean?
Street Fighter IV has very specific Juggling rules, what can connect after what in juggle combos. Here's roughly how it works in SFIV, it's safe to assume it's a similar system in SFV:
http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/ ... rs-w-video
Re: Street Fighter V Combo Engine Investigation
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 1:59 pm
by Dark_Chaotix
I already made 2 beta vids before and I just tested what hits and what doesn't. I guess Ill has to try and learn this stuff :/
Re: Street Fighter V Combo Engine Investigation
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:20 pm
by Doopliss
Dark_Chaotix wrote:I already made 2 beta vids before and I just tested what hits and what doesn't. I guess Ill has to try and learn this stuff :/
The advantage of knowing the juggle mechanics is that it allows you to approach combos from the opposite direction: "I know this will juggle if I can pull it off, but how can I do that?"
Re: Street Fighter V Combo Engine Investigation
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:39 pm
by Doopliss
Re: Street Fighter V Combo Engine Investigation
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:07 pm
by pepopulo
I remember seeing a old beta vid (I think by Bafael?) where nadeshiko and mika's command grab hitted on the same frame and mika went into the grab animation along with nadeshiko hitting, I guess this has more aplications than I initially thought
Edit: also, has anyone been able to crush counter dalshim's j.lp? I'm thought about something like Ken v Shim, cr.hp ccs shim's j.lp, cancel into super(whiff) lp shoryu v trigger something,but I can't quiet get it, might not be possible at all
Re: Street Fighter V Combo Engine Investigation
Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:28 pm
by Doopliss
pepopulo wrote:I remember seeing a old beta vid (I think by Bafael?) where nadeshiko and mika's command grab hitted on the same frame and mika went into the grab animation along with nadeshiko hitting, I guess this has more aplications than I initially thought
Edit: also, has anyone been able to crush counter dalshim's j.lp? I'm thought about something like Ken v Shim, cr.hp ccs shim's j.lp, cancel into super(whiff) lp shoryu v trigger something,but I can't quiet get it, might not be possible at all
His hurtboxes don't really reach that far down on start-up. and Ken's c.HP has to connect at the lower part of its hitbox to get the CC. I managed to get a s.HP CC, but not c.HP. j.HK works better oddly enough, but your idea isn't even close to working I'm afraid.
Re: Street Fighter V Combo Engine Investigation
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:28 am
by HarlequinRogue
Haha, thanks for the mention of Volt, Doopliss!
Re: Street Fighter V Combo Engine Investigation
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:43 am
by Doopliss
HarlequinRogue wrote:Haha, thanks for the mention of Volt, Doopliss!
No problem
I just find it kinda funny that it's both in Volt and SFxT, but not in The other iterations of SFIV.
Re: Street Fighter V Combo Engine Investigation
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:52 am
by pepopulo
Doopliss wrote:pepopulo wrote:I remember seeing a old beta vid (I think by Bafael?) where nadeshiko and mika's command grab hitted on the same frame and mika went into the grab animation along with nadeshiko hitting, I guess this has more aplications than I initially thought
Edit: also, has anyone been able to crush counter dalshim's j.lp? I'm thought about something like Ken v Shim, cr.hp ccs shim's j.lp, cancel into super(whiff) lp shoryu v trigger something,but I can't quiet get it, might not be possible at all
His hurtboxes don't really reach that far down on start-up. and Ken's c.HP has to connect at the lower part of its hitbox to get the CC. I managed to get a s.HP CC, but not c.HP. j.HK works better oddly enough, but your idea isn't even close to working I'm afraid.
Oh what a shame.
Well, wethever, I have a lot of fun Karin things I'm finding, altho nothing is that big compared to SF4 things, still I'm having a theory way to combo into her neck grab, but I can't get it to work, her ex shoulder staggers the opponent and they're grounded for some frames, I can get a grounded hit or a grab if I trade correctly, but seems that the neck grab is way too long (you have to do first her overhead or her rekkas).
Re: Street Fighter V Combo Engine Investigation
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:04 am
by Doopliss
Karin is the character I know the least about right now, I barely know her specials. Does Karin still have those just frame things? If so, how do they work exactly? Knowing that could save me a lot of time down the line (Or end up costing me a lot if I try to pull them of too much).
Re: Street Fighter V Combo Engine Investigation
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:23 pm
by Persona
You perform the punch after her dash as soon as possible. If done correctly, she says something different and it does more damage. The sound she makes is in the video I just posted.
Also I'm a bit worried how we all are going to make our vids because I'm sure that in a very short time everyone is going to have the same stuff. I'm sure there's going to be people saying we've stole their stuff and all.
Re: Street Fighter V Combo Engine Investigation
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:07 pm
by pepopulo
Yeah,game doesn't have much depth combowhise, I'm finding some cool stuff like whiffing a throw mid combo and comboing into a grab without a crush counter, but other than that it's pretty meh, I miss that meterless ex just frame tenko from Karin, it's a shame they patched it
Re: Street Fighter V Combo Engine Investigation
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:43 pm
by Persona
I guess in the end it comes to what the viewers want to see more from the combo maker that isn't really about the combos (editing, music choice, etc) since everyone is going to have the same stuff.
Re: Street Fighter V Combo Engine Investigation
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 3:48 am
by Pokey86
Yeah combo videos will likely become very dry very quickly for this... Hell, it would have dried out quicker than SFIV if it had a similar depth combo system purely because there's more people doing deeper stuff now.
I'm finding some strange discrepancies with R Mika (Only had a day with the game)
F.HP (Counterhit) Definitely creates a free juggle state, But after it Charged HK -> DP (Wingless Airplane) doesn't hit.
Where-As
Rope throw (Corner return) Charged HK -> DP
Works fine.
i believe rope throw creates an airborne state (Rather than juggle state) so that Charged HK hits airborne, where-as perhaps it adds more JP when hitting a juggled opponent.
I think i'll have a go at breaking this down at some point (And if i do, i'll do it correctly as Maj suggested, keeping old version figures when new patches come out, rather than disregarding them.)
Also i'm really fucked off that R.Mikas splash doesn't have an OTG effect like her VT, it fucking well should
I pre-arranged a combo so that mika could splash after her pal & it doesn't fucking work... Fuck Fuck Fuckedy Fuck. (I won't be making a CV now)
Appears that both her F.HP & Charge HK add more than 1 JP when hitting juggled. Managed to do CH F.HP -> MP Ass move thing -> DP
Re: Street Fighter V Combo Engine Investigation
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 4:04 am
by Pokey86
I think i'll get it out the way & start an juggling thread, get it started now before i start playing heavily online & lose motivation.
Re: Street Fighter V Combo Engine Investigation
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:21 am
by Doopliss
Pokey86 wrote:Also i'm really fucked off that R.Mikas splash doesn't have an OTG effect like her VT, it fucking well should
I pre-arranged a combo so that mika could splash after her pal & it doesn't fucking work... Fuck Fuck Fuckedy Fuck. (I won't be making a CV now)
Noticed that as well. Almost as annoying as the fact that Bison's EX Stomp OTG doesn't work after CC c.HK, which is the only situation where it would be guaranteed (Unless you juggle into it like Desk did in his video).
Re: Chatroom 2016
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:52 pm
by phoenix
So there's something really weird going on with SF5 meaties. If you do a meaty normal and cancel it into a special which normally wouldn't like, it can sometimes suddenly link:
https://twitter.com/TheFatherspoon/stat ... 7979043840
cr.MP xx stomp with Necalli only combos on meaty. Weird right? That twitter account suggests that this is because the game actually finishes the active frames of a move, even if you cancel into a new special, but this explanation has been shown to not work. 60fps recordings confirm that movies simply cancel on the first frame possible.
So that should mean that, if you hit a normal on a later active frame, it actually does MORE hitstun. This seems to predict that you should be maybe also get meaty link combos to work, which by their framedata perhaps shouldn't, or something like that.
Anyone have any idea what's going on with this? Whatever is going on, it should make for some interesting new combovideo opportunities once this is explored further.
Re: Chatroom 2016
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:04 pm
by Doopliss
It's possible it's just a one-off thing for that particular move. Post-active frame cancel window would've been my guess too, but since that has been disproven, who knows.
Re: Chatroom 2016
Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:28 am
by error1
It works without meaty in vt for some reason
Re: Chatroom 2016
Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:29 am
by Doopliss
error1 wrote:It works without meaty in vt for some reason
It's just a feature of VT, I believe all the stomps are slightly faster.
Re: Chatroom 2016
Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:33 am
by pepopulo
actually I think that all his medium normals have more hitstun
Re: Chatroom 2016
Posted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 12:36 am
by Doopliss
pepopulo wrote:actually I think that all his medium normals have more hitstun
Might be. Either way, it's supposed to work in VT.
Re: Street Fighter V Combo Engine Investigation
Posted: Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:53 pm
by Maj
Is it just me or do most SF5 combos feel really basic/formulaic? Every combo is like jumpin or crush counter, link, VT, link, super. Setups seem pretty limited too, although i like the
double interrupt setup off FANG's upward poisons.
So far the only video i've enjoyed all the way through is
SF5 Weird Stuff by
desk. Hopefully there's more of that stuff waiting to be found.
Re: Street Fighter V Combo Engine Investigation
Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:13 am
by HarlequinRogue
Maj wrote:Is it just me or do most SF5 combos feel really basic/formulaic? Every combo is like jumpin or crush counter, link, VT, link, super. Setups seem pretty limited too, although i like the
double interrupt setup off FANG's upward poisons.
So far the only video i've enjoyed all the way through is
SF5 Weird Stuff by
desk. Hopefully there's more of that stuff waiting to be found.
That's what I thought so as well. I was impressed by comboing after Fang's CA (though it being limited) and his latest combo with ken crossing under with V-trigger
Re: Street Fighter V Combo Engine Investigation
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:34 am
by Persona
I have no idea how to understand the JP system but I wondered why I couldn't do qcf MK xx qcfx2 P on a juggled opponent with Necalli if it was from a dp LP. The super would whiff.
But if I did it from say, his target combo, it would combo. In that case, how much JP would that dp LP be?
Re: Street Fighter V Combo Engine Investigation
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 7:00 am
by Pokey86
I'll make Necalli the next person i'll try and dissect & let you know.
Re: Street Fighter V Combo Engine Investigation
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 10:53 am
by Doopliss
Persona wrote:I have no idea how to understand the JP system but I wondered why I couldn't do qcf MK xx qcfx2 P on a juggled opponent with Necalli if it was from a dp LP. The super would whiff.
But if I did it from say, his target combo, it would combo. In that case, how much JP would that dp LP be?
When it comes to the stomp, it's more about them slamming into the ground before the super becomes active unless you hit them REALLY high up with it.
Re: Street Fighter V Combo Engine Investigation
Posted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:20 pm
by Persona
Doopliss wrote:Persona wrote:I have no idea how to understand the JP system but I wondered why I couldn't do qcf MK xx qcfx2 P on a juggled opponent with Necalli if it was from a dp LP. The super would whiff.
But if I did it from say, his target combo, it would combo. In that case, how much JP would that dp LP be?
When it comes to the stomp, it's more about them slamming into the ground before the super becomes active unless you hit them REALLY high up with it.
I'm pretty sure I've been stomping the opponent higher than from the juggle from the target combo and it still whiffs but I'm also getting images in my head that I've connected it before. Damn, guess I'll try again to be sure but after a long while I just gave up and left the stomp out of the video.