Random Lazy Questions

[error1]

It's a hard combo to optimize with tool assistance, it was one of the first things I scripted in sf4 and I don't think I ever managed more then 10, it just has really weird spacing I could never make sense of. I could probably get more now that I'm more experienced with it but I would be surprised If I could manage 18.
Maj could probably do better because his ppad is more precise.

I call it tasing because I'm a taser
http://tasvideos.org/1273M.html
tool assisted combo video is a more specific term Maj came up with to describe what he does, because he isn't a taser. So yah it's just personal preference. I prefer calling it a TAS and describing it as being tool assisted

[krusan]

...never thought that it could be specially hard to optimize with tool assitance. Thanx for the explanations.

[Maj]

Yeah there's something weird about that loop. The timing changes at several points, so it would take a long time to find the maximum, especially since the optimal dummy is unknown. I might try it for the DVD, but i'm not looking forward to it at all. I hate optimizing loops.

Maj could probably do better because his ppad is more precise.

Eh, it still has a 1-frame margin of error so we're pretty much in the same boat. The only game that comes to mind where it seemed close to 100% precise was 3rd Strike. CvS2 might be good on normal speed, but i always use default turbo speed so that goes out the window.

[error1]

dude you did that Abel infinite outside of training mode so I don't want to hear it
I played with that infinite for days and only managed over 99 hits once

[Maj]

Only because i don't have the luxury of changing the Trianing Mode background. Have you ever spent eight hours of one day building meter? Not to mention, that dumb infinite took me a whole weekend and the timing fluctuated every three or four reps. Hella consistent!

[error1]

that's pretty pro, I guess we're about even then

[onReload]

The only game that comes to mind where it seemed close to 100% precise was 3rd Strike.

Oh, I hate you for not liking the things I like.

Also, why'd you spend so much time building meter? couldn't you have scripted a meter-building-sequence (starting from "Fight!") then chilled out each time it built back up? I never tried that kinda thing so I'm just curious

[Maj]

that's pretty pro, I guess we're about even then

Alright, truce.

Also, why'd you spend so much time building meter? couldn't you have scripted a meter-building-sequence (starting from "Fight!") then chilled out each time it built back up? I never tried that kinda thing so I'm just curious

I usually do that for super meter since it's just one command that i can loop, but it's simpler to charge ultra meter manually. Plus some characters don't have stationary specials, so i gotta keep the opponent out of harm's way. There's also precise damage setups for KO effects, which i have to monitor.

Anyway it's not like i can speed up the process or automate it any further. I still gotta sit here and repeat the same exact thing every 2-3 minutes. Whatever, it's not that big a deal. It's just tedious is all.

[krusan]

Hi.
If posible, I would like to know some data about Ibuki´s qcf+K special in SSFIV (Kasumi Gake?), specially about invincibility frames, if any, or any other not-so-obvious info. Thanx.

[Doopliss]

I don't know much, but I can tell you this: Meatys on this move can place Ibuki closer to you than normally possible. I've also managed to connect with Yoga Flame after she crossed me up.

[Raine]

I've seen Ryu's f+MP hit her qcf+K dash from behind as she passes through him. Probably a lot of potential for backwards attacks.

[krusan]

Thanx for the answers.
So, we may conclude it has no invencibility frames at all? No low/high invincibility or any kind of invincibilty? It even seems Ibuki´s hitbox gets bigger than normal? ...mmm, it may have some strange combo posibilities as a setup, kind like of in KOF CMVs when they use Athena´s teleport?
Anyway, what about the duration in frames of that special move?, anyone knows how many frames is the duration of that teleport-thingy?
Thanx again.

[Doopliss]

looking at this, I think it's 54 frames?

EDIT: Scratch that, the command dash is probably the move with ??? on both the name and recovery. So I don't know.

[Rufus]

Only because i don't have the luxury of changing the Trianing Mode background. Have you ever spent eight hours of one day building meter? Not to mention, that dumb infinite took me a whole weekend and the timing fluctuated every three or four reps. Hella consistent!

Yeah, looks like something funky is going on... I've got close to perfect synchronization to 59.94 fps, but I'm seeing dropped inputs.
Did you see that on a PS3? Guess I'll be plinking everything...

[error1]

Yeah, looks like something funky is going on... I've got close to perfect synchronization to 59.94 fps, but I'm seeing dropped inputs.
Did you see that on a PS3? Guess I'll be plinking everything...

The reason you drop frames isn't because you are at the wrong frame rate it's just that your frame rate isn't perfectly synced with it's frame rate. Without an emulator there is always going to be some inconsistency because you don't know what part of the frame you start on.

[Rufus]

Yeah, looks like something funky is going on... I've got close to perfect synchronization to 59.94 fps, but I'm seeing dropped inputs.
Did you see that on a PS3? Guess I'll be plinking everything...

The reason you drop frames isn't because you are at the wrong frame rate it's just that your frame rate isn't perfectly synced with it's frame rate. Without an emulator there is always going to be some inconsistency because you don't know what part of the frame you start on.

I suppose I should code in support for fine tuning, but I actually have the tools for collecting that sort of info.
http://www.pedantic.org/~nate/syncbands.png
The dark bands are introduced to the signal by the programmable controller. (I use this to confirm frame rate synchronization.)

[Maj]

Yeah i've been using the PS3 version. I always register every input for 2 frames (unless that's not an option, like with SF4 kara-canceling) because if i use 1 frame inputs then it all goes to hell - dropped inputs everywhere, failed special moves, etc.

Needless to say, 1-frame links are problematic, especially when there's a lot of them in series. I don't like plinking as a solution because i'd rather have the exact numbers for my own records, plus there are lots of situations (when movement is involved) where plinking isn't applicable.

Anyway yeah, it behaves a lot like turbo speed frameskipping, but not quite as bad as ST or whatever.

[error1]

yah pinking can help a lot depending on the combo, but you can't pink some of the more complex combos, and if something is a frame off but it works because you plinked, it's still going to be a frame off when you want to combo that jab

[Rufus]

yah pinking can help a lot depending on the combo, but you can't pink some of the more complex combos, and if something is a frame off but it works because you plinked, it's still going to be a frame off when you want to combo that jab

Not necessarily. The typical scenario is that there's a 'short' input window, and then a 'long' input window later to offset (or the other way around).

[Maj]

What Rufus said. Plinking gives you a decent chance that it'll resync by the next critical point, which increases your odds overall. You can improve basic inconsistent combos to near 100% and you can improve the odds of complex combos dramatically. Not to mention, if you plink throughout the combo and every 1-frame instance is plinkable, you can actually desync halfway through the sequence and still keep the result intact.

There might be some straight link/cancel combos where plinking doesn't help at all, but it probably has to be a strict timing-sensitive sequence, where literally every gap is important. For example either involving airtight command windows (like delayed charge supers) or maybe Fei Long's chicken wing infinite in SSF4 where you have to delay the cancel after the link (and it happens to be 1-frame timing). But even that, plinking still might help you and it certainly won't hurt.

I still don't like doing it though, same as i don't like recharging with no neutral gap unless absolutely necessary.

[Rufus]

The reason you drop frames isn't because you are at the wrong frame rate it's just that your frame rate isn't perfectly synced with it's frame rate. Without an emulator there is always going to be some inconsistency because you don't know what part of the frame you start on.

So, I got irritated with this stuff and did more testing. It appears that the frame rate of the game varies depending on whether buttons are being hit or not. When buttons are down, it's around 59.8483 frames per second. I'm not sure about the rate without buttons.

[Maj]

Seriously? That's cool in the sense that it explains a lot, but irritating in the sense that i want to set fire to all of the things it explains.

[Rufus]

Seriously? That's cool in the sense that it explains a lot, but irritating in the sense that i want to set fire to all of the things it explains.

I was running tests where the input was:
0.5 frames jab
0.5 frames strong
0.5 frames short
0.5 frames forward
repeated over and over... and I got to the point where I didn't want to wait for it to drift from input display either solid blue or solid yellow or mixed.

Then I run
0.5 frames jab
0.5 frames strong
0.5 frames short
0.5 frames forward
2 frames nothing
Which doesn't synchronize.

Then I run the same thing while holding "back", and no drift.
(In this context I mean 1/59.8483 second by frame.)

[Maj]

Thanks for providing that info. It's always nice to have the actual experiment written out.

Let me see if i understand this correctly. When you were pressing LP, LK, MP, MK at half-frame intervals, you would consistently get either LP, MP or LK, MK. But when you started waiting exactly 2 frames between cycles, it started giving you messy results. Then you tried holding Back throughout the entire sequence and the 2 frame gap version became consistent?

I'm assuming you can hold HP instead of Back and get the same results? (Btw good idea testing a direction instead of a button.)

[Rufus]

Thanks for providing that info. It's always nice to have the actual experiment written out.

Let me see if i understand this correctly. When you were pressing LP, LK, MP, MK at half-frame intervals, you would consistently get either LP, MP or LK, MK. But when you started waiting exactly 2 frames between cycles, it started giving you messy results. Then you tried holding Back throughout the entire sequence and the 2 frame gap version became consistent?

I'm assuming you can hold HP instead of Back and get the same results? (Btw good idea testing a direction instead of a button.)

That's about the size of it, but:
It was the 'back' button, not the direction. I should test with directions too.
It was LP MP LK MK so that it would either be all blue (lp, lk) or all yellow (mp,mk) when in sync makes it much easier to see what's going on.
There is a pretty large boundary region where I'd get a mix of both - i.e. 2/5 light, 2/5 medium, 1/5 mixed or something like that.

[error1]

could it be that your setup sends inputs at a different rate when nothing is held?

[Rufus]

could it be that your setup sends inputs at a different rate when nothing is held?

Obviously possible, but unlikely. The program uses my computer's clock to determine when to send input and spends most of it's time waiting for the clock to tick over so it can send again. I've also been using the TV display (along with some components) to check how well I could sync with 59.94, and I don't see that issue there, or when doing stuff with SS2T:HDR.

[Dammit]

Doesn't the console send some kind of signal to announce that it's about to poll the controller state?

http://pinouts.ru/Game/playstation_9_pinout.shtml

If so, you might get your rig to listen for it and autotune the framerate to that instead of your PC's clock.

[Rufus]

If so, you might get your rig to listen for it and autotune the framerate to that instead of your PC's clock.

My setup isn't conducive to accessing low level bus information like that. Moreover, the Xbox 360 encryption and use of USB makes doing something like that a little annoying, even if it is possible.

[Snoooootch]

I have a question! Is there a way to hit a character on ssf4 with Fei's cr. mp and get 4 hits? I tried Honda crouching but was only able to get 3 hits.