Fighting Game News and Speculation 2010

[error1]

Guile would just be Law with a sonicboom and an air throw.
I don't really see that much differences between Tekken and Street fighter, I've always liked Paul because I felt he played like a Street Fighter character, In the same way I think Rufas plays like Tekken character.
So to me at least I can easily see Paul in a sf game or Rufas in a Tekken game.
I would be surprised if they don't give Yoshimitsu a projectile move, and I think Yoshimitsu can have a projectile and still make you feel like you are playing Yoshimitsu.

[Doopliss]

I see Yoshimitsu as the one with the strong air game. He should have air dashes imo, maybe at the cost of some health.

[Dark_Chaotix]

Because i guarantee you that in SFxT, at least five Tekken characters are going to be given fireballs, at least three of them are going to be given SPD-range command throws, at least two of them are going to get teleports, at least four of them are going to get fireball reflects, and there's going to be a whole bunch of crazy air specials with controllable trajectories. Because that's what it takes to differentiate characters in a Street Fighter game. If this was the Marvel engine (MvCxN?), things would get even crazier.

But like i said, this isn't going to be a Tekken game. Just like MvC2 isn't a Street Fighter game. Just like CvS2 isn't a KoF game. Just like SvCC isn't a Street Fighter game. By now the trend should be obvious. If you don't expect SFxT to be a Tekken game, i don't see why it can't be a good fighting game.

It's not interesting to you to see how Kazuya would fare if he was a Street Fighter character? It's certainly interesting to me how Guile will fare as a Tekken character.

See that right there isnt what tekken is like. At least in the cross over with snk / capcom, their respected game still kept to the nature of the character, its was just the core engine and gameplay that slightly changed. The sf characters had the same moves and DMs in SvCC and werent given something that didnt define them. That goes for CvS2 aswell, the SNK crew were slightly changed but the essence of the character remained. What you are saying is to add an arsenal of moves to characters from another that never had that before, and in turn will kill the character for the fans of tekken. I can see Kaz / Jin with eye laser fb like Dio from joe joe venture but that all. Its wrong on all levels to give say King a fireball reflector, bryan an fb, anna a teleport etc. To me if thats the direction they want to take, they might aswell just make new characters rather then essentially ruining them in this cross over game.

At one point it did interest me on what it would be like to see and game cross into another company's system, but that vid ruined it for me and going by what you are saying and given characters certain moves that they never had to begin with from their original game JUST to be on par with the sf character is wrong, stupid and subject to fail.

I can see the SF crew not caring how they play because at the end of the day its a new game. They play it anyways......

In gameplay terms, Ono said that the team is considering 2 on 2 matches, joking that Marvel vs. Capcom 3's 3 v 3 scraps were too much for someone his age. He also confirmed that the six-button, eight-way lever control system will remain intact, but Ono wants to add a component from the iPhone version of SFIV that he referred to as the "assist" feature, which will enable novice players to pull off difficult moves far easier.

its CvS2 all over again with a transition from 4 buttons to 6..... I know that its mandatory for this game because it is based of SF but still.........

[Maj]

I don't know what to tell you then. I was optimistic about SvC Chaos, knowing that it would be nothing like a Street Fighter game. It only failed because it sucked, not because they turned the Street Fighter characters into KoF characters.

SFxT will succeed if it's a fun, balanced game. I don't see how giving Yoshimitsu/Raven a teleport, giving Jack/Bryan a missle/grenade launcher, or adding a fireball reflect to Heihachi/Law's existing moves would doom the whole game to failure. Everything i suggested are natural changes that you would expect the Tekken characters to make when they walk into a world with Street Fighter rules. Nobody's suggesting a fireball reflector (or a Psycho Crusher) for King.

[Dark_Chaotix]

Well Raven and Yoshi already have a teleport so there isnt any difference there. I was sarcastic about king having a move like that but it still goes back on the point of why they need to have pointless moves that they never had before just to fit in another game??

Other side of it....Since id play the TvsSF version over the sf one, Id expect that ryu etc to have fireballs and what not. I know that it wouldnt be conventional having it but Ryu is based on fb's hurricane kicks etc. If I couldnt do that in tekken (I would assume you couldnt) then whats the point? Might as well just make a new character without the "ryu" name because he isnt doing what people remember him by. Even if he could to fb's, you would just SS that shit, like any other item move that tekken has.

IDK, maybe im thinking as if this game is going to be for the hardcore and mainstream, yet it prob be what all you guys want. Just something thats fun. Hell, I found Capcom fighting Jam fun and look what happened to that game.........

[Xenozip.]

I just have to add the following: you guys are a little bias, seriously.

If you played Garou you'd know Kevin/Grant/Jenet/Kain/etc were amazing and the bottom tier was basically Rock/Tizoc/Freeman. If you played Last Blade 2 you'd know Akari/Amano and half the cast were amazing while Hibiki was crap. Capcom released Rival Schools and if you've played that you'd know Kyosuke wasn't really top tier but he was a strong mid tier character, certainly not bottom tier. Athena and Mai in SNK games have always been like "blah" tier with certain exceptions, I say this because I'm referring to the games that actually matter, but for the most part they are mid/low tier.

Now with CvS2 you could say the majority of the top tier is Capcom, and that SNK characters are butchered, but I call bullshit. CvS1 made Nakoruru amazing when SNK never made her strong at all.

Hibiki is actually one of the strongest characters in CvS2, let alone that she was SNK. Straight up she beats so many Capcom characters, top tier Capcom characters, it's not even funny. And then there's Athena who straight destroys Cammy, among other characters. The Athena vs Cammy match was important because Cammy was on the scrub team, and Athena was quite valuable as a battery and a counter-pick. Yamazaki and Rugal are not jokes either, they are really good save for certain really bad matchups. Rock in CvS2 was actually amazing. Rock was given everything he needed in CvS2 that he did not have in Garou: mids. He was trash without mids, but he is really fucking good with them. Just in general: I'd really rather play Hibiki, Rock, Athena, Rugal, and Vice in CvS2 than their SNK incarnations any day of the week.

For the record I agree that characters like Vice and King were butchered but I also have to argue that they were also given advantages that fit in a "CAPCOM" game. I also have to argue that King has been trash in many games, she was only good in a few iterations. Vice didn't have her invulnerable throw in CvS2, but her mids were a million times better than any of her pokes in KoF, plus she had rollcancelling to compensate for her lack of invulnerable throw plus stupid mixups and ticks that worked better for her than in an SNK game. Now, I brought up Kyosuke because even though he wasn't anywhere near top tier, he was literally the WORST character in CvS2 despite having 2 infinite combos, and he was a capcom character.

Like seriously, I am kind of offended by this whole conversation because these games are not even out yet. You're judging two games that have not been barely loketested yet (certainly not by you). You're judging a game that has not been fixed or patched yet (certainly they have years to fix things that are wrong). You're judging a game that you have not had time to play and formulate any sort of real opinion on. And You're judging two games that no one has had YEARS to break down, YEARS. So, my only reaction to this thread can be "wtf". Like: speculation is one thing but being judgmental about a game is just being way too fucking prescient.

[Snoooootch]

I'm just very interested in how they're going to mix the 2 styles of Fighting games to one, when they are incredibly different. I do understand and accept that people are going to do more than speculate. It's a HUGE decision, this game! I understand where Xenozip is coming from, but I don't believe it's that big of a deal to be judgmental, because it is sensible to realize that not everyone is okay with the idea of this coming game. I believe that everyone is entitled to their opinion, whether they are judgmental or speculative. I for one am just, overwhelmingly interested with what sf x t is going to be like.

Anyway, I find that a "forward/backward Rolling" wake up is strange. It's very new to me, mainly because Tekken is my least favorite fighting game of all time. But I'm totally willing to give it the chance.

[Dark_Chaotix]

Like seriously, I am kind of offended by this whole conversation because these games are not even out yet. You're judging two games that have not been barely loketested yet (certainly not by you). You're judging a game that has not been fixed or patched yet (certainly they have years to fix things that are wrong). You're judging a game that you have not had time to play and formulate any sort of real opinion on. And You're judging two games that no one has had YEARS to break down, YEARS. So, my only reaction to this thread can be "wtf". Like: speculation is one thing but being judgmental about a game is just being way too fucking prescient.

Im not even referring to tiers or anything like that. Its the fact that tekken is a 3d game and not represent correctly.........I dont give a shit about tiers, characters, moves, loketest, patches or any of the sort.

So you guys ultimately dont care if ryu doesnt have his fb, an uppercut that doesnt leave the ground or a hurricane kick thats like EX series? Are you guys even going to play the namco version just cos it has sf characters in it?? Why is it that sf characters will make you play it (if you answered yes) cos at the end of the day the system is still tekken, which is prob the reason why you guys didnt play it in the first place.

[Don Vecta]

Athena and Mai in SNK games have always been like "blah" tier with certain exceptions, I say this because I'm referring to the games that actually matter, but for the most part they are mid/low tier.
I also have to argue that King has been trash in many games, she was only good in a few iterations.

LOL W0t? Athena mid to low? Only in 2003/XI. in 2002 it's top tier, 98 was quite high too... in general, that fucking annoying bitch has been always mid to top tier.

As for King she always oscilates between top high and mid tier. in 98UM her EX version it's quite strong and her 2002UM it's painfully top! Perhaps the lowest tier rank she have had in a KOF was in 97 cuz even in AOF2 was quite solid (I'm also a King player, btw).

And as for Vice, I DO agree in all those things, I never said she was garbage, I just said she was completely different from how she can be played on 98, 2002, NW, 98UM (which is fantastic there) and 2002UM but damn I still play with her.

[Maj]

For the record, King was arguably the best R1 character in CvS1, which unquestionably puts her in top tier. She's kinda garbage in CvS2 but only because she's decidedly mediocre and has some painful matchups. She would've been better if Capcom wasn't overcompensating for CvS1, but them's the breaks.

I played Tekken 2 and a little bit of Tekken 3, then tried Tekken 5 for a couple of months because my friend was into it. I've never really learned the system because random SF games and combovids always kept me busy. I can't speak for anyone else, but having SF characters in the game will definitely motivate me to learn the Tekken engine.

As for Ryu, the only problem is his fireball which is a universal issue that they can deal with several different ways. We'll just have to wait and see. But Kazuya's DP gets off the ground, so why can't Ryu's? And i don't see how Hurricane Kick is an issue. He can just spin around 1/2/3 times for different commands and it'll be fine.

Ryu was always a fireball/uppercut character. Hurricane Kick was absolutely useless in SF2:WW. They've had to invent a use for it in order to make it useful (invincible startup in CE/HF, hella dizzy in A3, goes through fireballs in SF4). Nobody expects Hurricane Kick to be useful in a new game. It's a pleasant surprise whenever it is. Nobody will complain if it sucks in TxSF.

[Doopliss]

Tatsu doesn't go through fireballs in SF2?

[Don Vecta]

Tatsu doesn't go through fireballs in SF2?

IIRC, only bypasses Sonic Booms and Yoga Fires. Hadoukens hit'em. Not so sure, mind's bit clouded.

[Maj]

Yeah it only gets past what it can float over. It doesn't have the "goes through fireballs" property like in SF4, where it can get through Yoga Catastrophe.

[Doopliss]

Ok. I have only played SFA and SF4 (extensively), so the idea of Tatsu not going through fireballs is weird to me.

[Maj]

Hurricane Kick doesn't go through Rose's fireball or Sagat's high fireball in SFA either. He just floats higher in SFA, so the only difference is it goes over Shoto fireballs in SFA but not SF2.

Making Hurricane Kick invincible to projectiles was an SF4 invention. I think it was a good decision, but it didn't exist before because it would've ruined the SF2 series Shoto matchup. But fireballs are less important now, so it works out.

[Dark_Chaotix]

I can't speak for anyone else, but having SF characters in the game will definitely motivate me to learn the Tekken engine.

As for Ryu, the only problem is his fireball which is a universal issue that they can deal with several different ways. We'll just have to wait and see. But Kazuya's DP gets off the ground, so why can't Ryu's? And i don't see how Hurricane Kick is an issue. He can just spin around 1/2/3 times for different commands and it'll be fine.

I just dont get that....Akira from VF looks like ryu but I dont see anyone playing that game. It will be funny to find the naive players wanting to do a jump in HK, c+MK into fb in a tekken engine, or try and do a DP and find out that its not safe. Yeah Kaz does have a DP that goes off ground, he has 2 DP's in fact, and the one that goes off ground nobody uses outside of combo for how unsafe it is. The one that was shown in the vid is the non jumping dp. If funny how they added the uf4,4,4,4 move and the b+3,1,4,1 string thats unsafe and punishable in tekken.

Ryu having a jumping dp will make it unsafe. Having a hurricane kick that spins 3 times or whatever can be ducked and launched from thus making it unsafe (unless they make it a mid move....). Fb can be SS'ed and are slow so make it unsafe and not worth it. His DM's in games would become unblockable where most times are used (unless for oki or tech trap which is still rare). So all the techniques that make ryu "ryu" are gone to a point where its just pokes and strings. No sf play i would think would want to play like that with ryu.... And prob sure as hell wouldnt want a move added that he never had before?

I just have to add the following: you guys are a little bias, seriously.
Athena and Mai in SNK games have always been like "blah" tier with certain exceptions, I say this because I'm referring to the games that actually matter, but for the most part they are mid/low tier.

Games that matter??? Im assuming you mean only the capcom games matter and not their native snk ones? Thats unfair to call us out for being biased yet you say that?

[Don Vecta]

Doesn't Bruce Irvin have a shoryuken? I guess in this game it'd work wonders, lol! XD

[error1]

dude give the guys some credit. I know I trust Capcom to make a good fighting game, because that's what they do. I mean they've made a ton of fighting games and only failed once or twice so they get my benefit of the doubt.
And the Tekken game is going to be a Tekken game, so if you like Tekken games you're going to like it.

[Maj]

I just dont get that....Akira from VF looks like ryu but I dont see anyone playing that game. It will be funny to find the naive players wanting to do a jump in HK, c+MK into fb in a tekken engine, or try and do a DP and find out that its not safe.

Akira is not Ryu. I like Ryu. I don't care about Akira. I mean i'm not going to go learning every game that ripped off Guile.

Secondly, DP is not supposed to be safe. And even if it was, nobody would blame Namco for changing what is and isn't safe to suit their system. I'm sure someone will say "I can't believe they ruined Ryu's Hurricane Kick" but it won't be long before someone who actually knows the game responds with "It's not that big a deal, just learn to play the game."

Unless of course the game sucks, in which case nobody will defend it. But the bottom line is it'll succeed or fail based on whether it's a good game, not based on whether it meets arbitrary preconceptions.

Games that matter??? Im assuming you mean only the capcom games matter and not their native snk ones? Thats unfair to call us out for being biased yet you say that?

He means the games people actually play. Like SFA2 and SFA3 matter, but SFA1 doesn't. KoF98 matters but KoF99 doesn't, etc.

[Xenozip.]

Games that matter??? Im assuming you mean only the capcom games matter and not their native snk ones? Thats unfair to call us out for being biased yet you say that?

He means the games people actually play. Like SFA2 and SFA3 matter, but SFA1 doesn't. KoF98 matters but KoF99 doesn't, etc.

Yeah, that.

What I was basically trying to say is that no one has played TekVsCap or CapVsTek yet so judging it based on history is rather preemptive. And, I don't think Capcom was completely bias with the SNK characters so I doubt they will be bias with the Tekken character, but even if they are the capcom game is for capcom fans and the namco game is for namco fans. Personally, I don't think a literal translation of the SNK characters would have worked.

[Persona]

I have no idea why people are protecting either Street Fighter or Tekken but even though I'm not really up for the idea of them mixing, at least I can play my favorite Tekken characters on an engine I know how to play on. And even if you don't like that, there's always the other version of the game. Or better yet, if people don't like it at all, don't play it, as simple as that. A new game is always a welcome.

I give any fighting game a try (as long as I can at least play it). Ryu doesn't have to be in it. Kaz doesn't have to be in it. Kyo doesn't have to be in it. I'm more concerned on the engine and ANY character can be put into any engine in my opinion. No projectiles in Tekken? Just let Ryu do some kind of short range double palm blast like KoF Ryo. Tekken characters in SF? Tekken characters punch and kick right? That's enough for them to survive in SF.

[Xenozip.]

There's a certain some one on IRC who I think summed it up best when he said "It's history in the making" and "even if it's bad, it's good.", lol.

If either one doesn't suck then personally I'll be pleasantly surprised, if they do then it's OK because it's awesome anyway, just because they actually made the crossovers. It's going to be epic regardless if it's good or bad.

[Dark_Chaotix]

Sounds like an excuse then a reason for it to be "epic"

[CPS2]

I get what you mean Xenozip, it's sort of like "whoa... that exists."

Where I think I'm eventually headed is to start making doujin fighters (long long way down the track), so I don't get too annoyed if games aren't turning out how I expect. Its just cool to see what these companies do, even if it turns out broken or whatever. Still, it looks to me like Capcom is trying to get some of that Tekken fanbase, and they won't let this be bad (of course there will be people who don't like it).

I'm sort of wondering if Tekken 7 is due before TxSF, it probably is.

[Dark_Chaotix]

Tekken 7 better not be this project........

[Smileymike101]

Meh, with info about TekenXSF4 whatever coming only in 2011 and the actually game shipping around 2012-2013 it's way to early to tell.Also, i have SF4, and SSF4, i dont want to buy it YET AGAIN just for some characters i dont care about and some new ultra cutscenes duct-tapped together( did you guys really se the animation for chun's ultra ther?It went to the part where she launches him into the air, he starts rising for some frames, then suddenly cuts to him being pushed back.LAME editing guys).
I also do not care about MVC3.(Gonna get so flamed for this)

[Doopliss]

Meh, with info about TekenXSF4 whatever coming only in 2011 and the actually game shipping around 2012-2013 it's way to early to tell.Also, i have SF4, and SSF4, i dont want to buy it YET AGAIN just for some characters i dont care about and some new ultra cutscenes duct-tapped together( did you guys really se the animation for chun's ultra ther?It went to the part where she launches him into the air, he starts rising for some frames, then suddenly cuts to him being pushed back.LAME editing guys).

Yes, it was duct-taped together... for them to have something to show people. The game has been in development for like two months. I think it's very silly that a lot of people are judging it from that gameplay video.

[Xenozip.]

Especially considering it won't be out for years. They literally have years to work on it.

[Smileymike101]

Point still stands strong and still: I already have SSF4, it is SSF4+ some tekken characters i dont care about= why but it?(and yeah i saw it has some new mechanics, but chain links?really? HP xx HK xx Ultra?Amazing skill required)

[CPS2]

I don't think it looked like it played similarly to SSF4 at all. That was probably the point of the video, that it's different. It had ultra animations, but to me they looked like they functioned as supers, and probably do much less damage, especially if they're cancellable or easily linkable (and they looked DHC-able).

Expecting the recycled animations to change at least, they just seemed to be working with what they had for the time being.