MvC3 Combo Engine Investigation

[onReload]

Right, so, MvC3 technically isn't out yet, and I'm not on the same hype train as everyone else, but I've had fun with it a few times in the past few days and have been following tragic's findings on YouTube...it seems like everything about this game is coming early. I'm no good with the complicated games, so maybe "random mvc3 findings" would be a better title, but I'm a fan of forum-topic-title-consistency...

I've only scratched the surface of the MvC3 forum on SRK, but I'm still looking for some answers, and we'll probably have one of these anyway, since we're not always looking for practical findings...Basically, is it cool if I make a thread like this?

Does anyone have anything definitive to put on the table? I guess I'm making this topic a bit selfishly, 'cause here's what I'm looking for / want to test when I can wrestle it from my roommate:

-Flying Screen, what's the deal? Spider-Dan of SRK "[doesn't] think this game has horizontal FS" e.g. after Magneto's Magnetic Shockwave.
-When hitstun scaling kicks in (and how steeply, kind of like how we know SF4's lifebar and move damage scaling perfectly..but not meter-gain-scaling)
-Does meter gain also scale during longer combos?
-X-Factor: does it reset damage/hitstun/(meter?) scaling, or just buff stats and speed?
-What's the limit to beating up assists?
-Do people feel like Team Aerial combos shouldn't be part of combo videos (as they are technically escapable)?
-Can opponents mash out from the dizzy effects from certain moves? (Hsien-Ko's projectile, She-Hulk's attack, or crumpling moves like Chun-Li's extra Kikouken move, C.Viper's focus...)

I think that
-It feels easier to be hit out of super startup, like before the superfreeze even. It might just be the game design, or my foolish desire for random supers.
-You don't seem to gain meter from any kind of whiffed move or assist
-There's a definite visual/audio cue to tell the attacking player when they can OTG without the opponent rolling/standing up; there's that kind of bounce from certain moves, or when pressing "S" in the air, they not only bounce, but there's that falling whistle sound effect. Not sure if these are the only times.

I know the game isn't even out yet, and I know that the VS. Series has a history of changing every week, but there's always going to be a week 1 findings type of deal, right? I'm still not sure if I'm going to play the game outside of training mode much, but it's fresh and new and if we're going to put together any kind of MvC3 content soon...we should start putting down what we know.

[CPS2]

Do people feel like Team Aerial combos shouldn't be part of combo videos (as they are technically escapable)?

I think they're ok, as long as they're there for a reason. If it's a new combo + old exchange combo tacked onto the end of it, there's no point.

Some things I want to know:
-it looks like there might be early or late tech rolling, I'm interested if that means there's techable combos that still add to the combo counter.
-same deal in the air, are there air techable combos that add to the combo counter?

[error1]

-it looks like there might be early or late tech rolling, I'm interested if that means there's techable combos that still add to the combo counter.
-same deal in the air, are there air techable combos that add to the combo counter?

pretty confident there is no air tech or tech rolls, otgs are guaranteed damage

[Doopliss]

There's one thing I'm curious about. If you use Chun-Li, triple jump after a launcher, exange up, someone else, exhange up again to Dante, and then Dante does his firey spin thingy. Will it just keep going until he hits the ground, or will he stop in mid-air?

[Pokey86]

There's one thing I'm curious about. If you use Chun-Li, triple jump after a launcher, exange up, someone else, exhange up again to Dante, and then Dante does his firey spin thingy. Will it just keep going until he hits the ground, or will he stop in mid-air?

I can't tell you the answer to the question, but being the big gay DMC 3 fan that i am i can tell you that move is called Sky Dance

[Doopliss]

I see. I only played DMC4

[Pokey86]

I see. I only played DMC4

Well you haven't lived my friend.

[CPS2]

Something that Trag found while using wolverine, doing the highest possible amount of specials it'll let you do in the air, stops you from being able to super until you hit the ground. (I'm new to Marvel so sorry if that's in all of them and really obvious). There might be exceptions so it's probably still worth messing with.

[Doopliss]

I see. I only played DMC4

Well you haven't lived my friend.

Well, I think DMC4 sucked A LOT compared to Bayonetta, so... XD Maybe it's just not my game series, so to speak.

[Pokey86]

I see. I only played DMC4

Well you haven't lived my friend.

Well, I think DMC4 sucked A LOT compared to Bayonetta, so... XD Maybe it's just not my game series, so to speak.

DMC4 wasn't as good as DMC3, but i'm as close to aDMC3 fanboy as someone can get so there is bais in there somewhere... I have my own gripes with Bayonetta, but it is a very good game still.

[cheap-attempt-to-get-back-on-topic]oh yeah... MVC3, umm combos'n'stuff, mechanical talk. Hmm. i think once the first hit of Ryus Shinku hits the remaining hits are very likely to hit also.[/cheap-attempt-to-get-back-on-topic]

[Maj]

Hahaha i have no idea where this came from but it's awesome.

[error1]

so we knew Phoenix had low hp but it pretty silly just how low
http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Marvel_vs_Cap ... omparisons
she dies to a single lv 3 from lots of characters, or half of a bnb
to put it in perspective, a j.h, s.h from thor does 212,300 damage
in xfactor that's probably enough to kill her

[onReload]

Yeah to be honest, I think anything against Phoenix is too easy for DAMAGE...same with X-Factor combos. I'm sure a 1-hit K.O would be cool though, or as-few-hits-as-possible 300% k.o.

[error1]

it still might be fun to do stuff like a combo with Akuma to kill Phoenix and then cancel the last move into raging demon to kill dark Phoenix

[CPS2]

This is insane...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMzAyXN9LjI

Starts combo on Dante, hits Sent assist, drops combo on Dante, keeps combo going on Sent, drops combo on Sent, resumes on Dante, and the combo counter adds everything up!

edit: so now i'm wondering what happens to damage and hitstun scaling with this type of combo. It kinda looks like damage scaling probably resets, but would hitstun scaling? It is 2 different combos on Dante...

[Smileymike101]

Damn MVC3 engine is random.I thought you were supposed to only be able to do one otg in a combo, does lauching reset this?
Yay for no negative edge.

[onReload]

SRK's hyperguide says that you get one "groundbounce" per combo, but you can OTG multiple times, yes...I'm not sure if launching is what lets you OTG again, you could see if there are assists that leave them vulnerable while in an OTG state

[noodalls]

Throw Break Study

Marvel vs Capcom 3 Throw Study

Day 1. PStick. Visual analysis. Noodalls.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ghY8P9r86Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRMA6EznnPY

For reference, player 2 press throw forward+C on F1.

Everything is in reference to that. (e.g. F0 means P1 Ryu

press forward+C on F(rame)0, where P2 Ryu presses it on F1).

Tests were done on Ryu vs Ryu.


Animation is
F0 Ryu pulls his fist back slightly. Input command appears on

screen
F1 Ryu puts his fist under his opponent's chin
Damage appears on F30.
P1 Jump animation begins F51 for P1.
P2 Jump animation begins F97 for P2 (+46)
P1 Ryu's second jump animation begins on F95.

F0 P1 Ryu throws P2
F1 P1 and P2 Ryu double hit with their roundhouse kick
F2 P2 Ryu throws P1
F3 P1 Ryu breaks P2 Ryu's throw (and switches sides if done from close = glitch)
F4-9 Throw break. Neutral situation afterwards.
F10 - No throw break.

Investigating hit deterioration

If you perform around 5 or so Crouching Light Attacks in a row with She-Hulk, the opponent will simply not get comboed by an ensuing standard Chain Combo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U_VseT0z6U
Ryu d+A study

Numbers refer to the frame on which each move is connecting.

d+A
i5
Inputs from F17


d+B
i8
Inputs from F29

d+A,A
hits F5 and F20/21 (asap)

d+A,A
5,24 = hits
5,25 = blocked or hits!
5,26 = blocked

d+A,A,B
5,20,40 = hits
5,20,41 = blocked
5,21,41 = hits
5,21,42 = blocked


d+A,A,A,A,B

5,20,36,52,72 = hits
5,21,37,53,73 = hits
5,21,37,53,74 = blocked

SheHulk

d+A i7
d+B i9

d+A,B
7,24 = ASAP
7,28 = hits
7,29 = hits or blocked
7,30 = blocked

d+A,A,A,A,A,A,B
7,27,47,67,87,109 = hits
7,27,47,67,87,110 = blocked

i.e. if you do one d+A before d+B or if you do 5xd+A before d+B, you can still end up with 22F between the last d+A and the d+B hitting. This would suggest that the hit stun has not changed up to this point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U_VseT0z6U


YouTube - Three directions at once in Marvel vs Capcom 3

Done with PStick obviously.

Can press D+U at the same time in MvC3. The example actually shows holding DB and pressing UF.
Cannot press R+L at the same time. L appears to be dominant (note, this could be a hardware limitation as well.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3hBgW4pVEc

[Rufus]

Yeah, not sure what James is talking about...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL5uxzAaAMI

Also did some quick test...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL5uxzAaAMI

FWIW, I see down right + up left when I do stuff as P1 on my Xbox, and like up and toward the opponent override down, though 1f superjumps are possible with it.

Nevermind. Holding in both directions autoblocks. Hitbox FTW in MvC3.

[error1]

Nevermind. Holding in both directions autoblocks. Hitbox FTW in MvC3.

sounds useful for blocking crossups, maximum wesker in particular. You can use the d pad and the analog stick on a ps3.

She hulk isn't a very good test case because d+C, S is a juggle and that resets the hit stun. Deadpool might be a better case because he can do D+A, D+A, A, A, A, A, A and it will stop comboing

[Rufus]

Nevermind. Holding in both directions autoblocks. Hitbox FTW in MvC3.

sounds useful for blocking crossups, maximum wesker in particular. You can use the d pad and the analog stick on a ps3.

She hulk isn't a very good test case because d+C, S is a juggle and that resets the hit stun. Deadpool might be a better case because he can do D+A, D+A, A, A, A, A, A and it will stop comboing

The Xbox also has analog/digital on the default controller...
The SRK Wiki page cites that she hulk can't combo after five low lights, which is why Noodals (ostensibly) and I tested it.

AFAICT The Deadpool thing ends because of pushback.

[Mienaikage]

Does anyone know if, and how many times X-23 can loop standing Medium xx Mirage Feint cancel?

[noodalls]

OTG Study

Spencer assist i40

Ryu vs Ryu

Recovery window
P2 Ryu d+C hits on F0
u on F76 and Ryu will not jump*
u on F77 will make Ryu P1 Ryu jump*

OTG

Ryu d+C hits on F0
Spencer Pistol hits on F57 (input on F17)*
Spencer pistol whiff (input on F18-36)*
Spencer pistol hits Ryu as he recovers on F77 (input on F37)*

* note input appearing on screen is probably 1F behind when the input is acknowledged by the system.

[Rufus]

Does anyone know if, and how many times X-23 can loop standing Medium xx Mirage Feint cancel?

3 Loops unless the timing gets wierd. She doesn't get out of rage either. (8 hits on the counter...)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQEinwlIDAY

[noodalls]

Ryu
S button i9
SJ. A i6

S input on F0.
Input u from F5 (where S is input on F0) will not superjump
Input u from F6 (where S is input on F0) will superjump

S on F0. Press u on F6. Hits F9. Superjumps. A on F22 will give nothing. Opponent flips out F60/61.


S on F0. Press u on F6. Hits F9. Superjumps. A on F22 will give jab, hits F30. Opponent flips out F52.

S on F0. Press u on F6. Hits F9. Superjumps. A on F23 will give jab, hits F31. Opponent flips out F53/F54.

S on F0. Press u on F6. Hits F9. Superjumps. A on F54 will whiff (where opponent recovers on F60).

S on F0. Press u on F6. Hits F9. Superjumps. A on F54 will hit on F60. Opponent flips out F83.

S on F0. Press u on F6. Hits F9. Superjumps. A on F55 will whiff (where opponent recovers on F61).

Frustratingly, there appears to be some variation in timing in these combos. Alternatively the the arduino may not be entirely accurately representing the system situation. The fact that the opponent can flip out on either F60 or F61 means that sometimes legitamite combos could whiff.

On a positive note, the flip out animation is very obvious, and so visual analysis of hit deterioration should be quite easy.

[Doopliss]

I noticed that Super Skrull can do "Death Penalty -> s.A xx 2 char THC", does someone know anything else you can do after it?

[Maj]

I still don't have the game, and i've only played it for a few hours at a friend's house, but i just wanted to say that you guys are doing great work.

[onReload]

3 Loops unless the timing gets wierd. She doesn't get out of rage either. (8 hits on the counter...)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQEinwlIDAY

Has a really nice beat to it - is standard B&B not feasible after a few reps?

also, i've been watching all of tragic's work, he's quite the finder. I found this shehulk combo to be the most fascinating, as he cancels her air command normal (hit #16) into Team Aerial Combo, which can't come out that low to the ground, so it removes the recovery, allowing her to launch again...I don't know if they can Counter it, and I don't know if this is possible with other characters. [edit: spoke too damn soon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNeXow-AuZY]

...but the team aerial combo is definitely interesting stuff - if you go for a tag in a situation where your assist can't come out (which is what this "Aerial Cancel" seems to be), but the opponent does an aerial counter, they don't hit anything and they're left wide open. in that sense, there's no point to even trying to counter it, because then you reset scaling.

technically that's not combo related, but i just feel like the Team Aerial stuff will produce bizarre things. You don't get any bar for an aerial tag until your partner comes in, luckily...if there's a way to break that, then meter building will be disgusting.

but yeah, definitely keep up the good work on the HSD; i suppose it's going to be studied until it's completely understood, since we never really had to deal with this kind of thing in the past. any ideas if there's a random factor, like dizzies/undizzies?

[Rufus]

Has a really nice beat to it - is standard B&B not feasible after a few reps?

Oh, you can continue with heavy, jump mirage feint cancel, air medium, air medium, stand heavy, launcher and so on if you don't try to keep doing the same loop. From a damage perspective medium xx feint medium is inefficient anyway. I'm not sure how much testing I'll do in the short term, but it's almost certainly better to try for something involving heavy attacks - the stand heavy xx jump feint cancel stuff is probably more worthwhile in that regard.

[error1]

AFAICT The Deadpool thing ends because of pushback.

nah it's not because of pushback, you can do a modok barrier assist as you jump over to negate pushback and deadpool can still only get Ax8, the same as you can get without the assist