SSF4 Combo Engine Investigation

[onReload]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4OT0B4xyQk

wha

[error1]

It looks weird because normally the suction part of the ultra can never juggle but in this case it does due to the weird post ko juggle state.

[Doopliss]

I wonder if you can do something similar with U2.

[Snoooootch]

This gives me an idea. What If I try to get what supers do after the KO screen? I can do it and record some stuff. You guys down? lol

[Pokey86]

It looks weird because normally the suction part of the ultra can never juggle but in this case it does due to the weird post ko juggle state.

The way the boom hit, as it normally does stun, on death it causes float, Seths Super suction juggles against float state. (For example you can do AA, FA LVL 3, back dash, HP super & thery'll suck right back in.

[Maj]

Buktooth: do you know how people are coming up with these random throw range values in sf4/ssf4?
Buktooth: well like
Buktooth: a while ago i saw some gen video
Buktooth: where a guy says the standard gen kara throw is 1.1 range
Buktooth: and this new kara throw range is 1.15!
Buktooth: and im like wtf do these numbers come from?

Does anyone know?

[Doopliss]

I thought they based those ranges on the grid in the training stage?

[Snoooootch]

Do you guys think interrupting blanka's U2 (Grounded) would give enough time to taunt, then follow with another attack? I'm trying to come up with some solutions for my combo challenge. So far I have 6 done and recorded.

Edit*
Nevermind. I tried it and it... does not work.

[Maj]

Someone sent me an interesting question about armor impact freeze, so i asked him to post it here:

http://sonichurricane.com/?p=1043#comment-6295

Does anyone happen to know the answer?

[error1]

posted on the video
so it looks like backdashing cancels the focus impact freeze, if that's the case the expiation is pretty simple. you have the startup and active frames of the low jab to input the throw for it to cancel, because the game after a focus attack the window for you to cancel the throw is much larger, that's the whole point of the option select, so if they backdash the pause is about the same as if they blocked

[Smileymike101]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUyTVpfqum4 How did that happen at 0:05?

[Tigre III]

Mmmm maybe this is common knowledge, I dont know, but someone has deepened with Counter hits on the corner taking advantage of meaty normals properties?
For example, with Gouken, After a s.HP (counter) you can do Hadouken M ->U2 (vs Vega), or with Chunli, after nj.HP you can do s.HK->s.LP->s.HP->Super (vs Dalshim). It seems like the first counter hit allows the possibility to connect the next hit meaty...

[Doopliss]

I've done similar things. With Dhalsim, I did CH db.HP, meaty db.MP, c.MK.

[Snoooootch]

do you think it would work if you did a hadoken an hit it as a counter hit but as you hit with the fireball you input U2. I wonder if it would connect.

[Tigre III]

I've done similar things. With Dhalsim, I did CH db.HP, meaty db.MP, c.MK.

Yeah, that is. I suppose that after a normal db.HP, you can connect a db.MP but not a c.MK after, so the CH of the HP gives to you the possibility to connect a meaty db.MP...

do you think it would work if you did a hadoken an hit it as a counter hit but as you hit with the fireball you input U2. I wonder if it would connect.

Mmmm i dont undestand exactly what are you talking about... Are you referring to Gouken combo? that combo works http://www.megaupload.com/?d=FTUXKVWV

Note that the hadoken hits Vega very forward, and gives to Gouken the frames enough to connect the U2. So, a CH can enable more possibilities not only in second move, can also enable more stuff in the third move.

[Maj]

Mmmm maybe this is common knowledge, I dont know, but someone has deepened with Counter hits on the corner taking advantage of meaty normals properties?

It's common knowledge but uncommon application. Meaties give frame advantage but they also require more startup (because the whole concept of a meaty is to hit later than first active frame).

So if you have a 1-frame link and you want to make the second attack meaty, it's impossible unless you create more frame advantage for the first attack, then transfer it to the second attack. You can create extra frame advantage many different ways though, not just counterhit.

Most people aren't looking for this kind of stuff, and working examples very rare even if you are looking.

[Tigre III]

Ok, I thought so, because this is not a weird or a super strange set up... But as I havent seen so much of this stuff...

[ilitirit]

In some situations you can get links to land meaty because of reel animations. eg. Against crouching Balrog, Ryu (don't remember who else) Blanka can do j.hk, far st.mp, cr.hk. The reel animation of the opponent reacting to the j.hk pushes their hitbox out of range of the first frame (or more?) of the far st.mp, so it allows the link into cr.hk.

[Maj]

So what's the most powerful move Dudley can Cross Counter? It doesn't work against armor breakers so Balrog's TAP is out of the question, right?

[Doopliss]

I guess Angry Scar'd HP TU/Gen crane c.HP at 180?

EDIT: No, most likely the last hit of E.Honda's Super, at 240. Or maybe a fully charged HP Hayate with Super-buffed Makoto, dunno how much damage that does.

[Rufus]

FWIW Super Fully Charged Fierce Hayate Does *wrong number here*

[Doopliss]

204? Weird, I thought the super gave her 25% more dmg? and that full HP hayate does 170? That should be 212. I guess it's actually a 20% boost then.

[error1]

a different question might be what % of a characters hp can an ex counter do?
Probably still Hayate.
how much power bonus does maskless claw get? only like 10% right

[Snoooootch]

If you're thinking of a Kill combo, you can probably do a sonic boom trade with makoto's hayate atfer she hits seth as a counter hit. That would boost it up high enough to hit him with an Ultra 2 follow up. Seth could be jumping and get hit in the air. idk, sounds like it needs tool assisted help, but sounds possible. Only depends on Makoto's Hayate Juggle potential. Damaging and COULD look stylish if done right.

[Maj]

Nope, not planning anything. I'm just surprised i haven't seen a clip of Cross Counter doing a giant chunk of damage in SSF4 yet.

[Snoooootch]

if anyone I figured you of all people would have already done it. It actually sounds very interesting to me. I wish I could try it, but I dont have the tools, and Makoto is nowhere near my specialties.

[onReload]

Nope, not planning anything. I'm just surprised i haven't seen a clip of Cross Counter doing a giant chunk of damage in SSF4 yet.

/takes a drag of imaginary cigarette
/looks at AE-PC-release-countdown-calender

[Maj]

if anyone I figured you of all people would have already done it. :)

I don't think it's all that complicated to Cross Counter one move. It's not like Dudley can add a ton of stuff afterwards, so tool-assistance is kind of pointless. I would've expected the Dudley players to have this question fully resolved by now, so i'm just asking in case i missed out on that discussion.

[Smileymike101]

I would've expected the Dudley players to have this question fully resolved by now, so i'm just asking in case i missed out on that discussion.

Dudley players have abbandoned the thought that they have Cross Counter, Short Swing Blow, or Thunderbolt in their moveset.

[Rufus]

if anyone I figured you of all people would have already done it.

It's not like Dudley can add a ton of stuff afterwards, so tool-assistance is kind of pointless. I would've expected the Dudley players to have this question fully resolved by now, so i'm just asking in case i missed out on that discussion.

I suppose the real answer is just to test things myself, but I wonder about stuff like:
Jumping Fierce -> Cross Counter vs. EX armored moves like Bison's EX Dash Punch
EX Cross Counter -> interrupt or vs. long reaching attacks like Yoga Sniper.