Got any Questions about SFA, A2, Z2A, A3, A3U, or HSFA?

[Xenozip.]

Random: http://xenozipnotes.blogspot.com/2010/0 ... ovies.html

And then, theoretically that would just be the structure. A list of the basis for what has been done -- or what should have been clearly exhibited. From there, one would need to go into trades and interrupts and other situationals/extremes.

But that's really really digging for "interesting content". And etc.

[Raine]

Does anyone have a link to these Lemmings videos? Pretty much the only SFA3 specific stuff I've seen is that X-Combo series and Xenozip's tips & tricks vid.

[Keiko]

I didnt have the chance to play SFA'A in depth, what are the main differences whit the arcade port?

The Lemmings Vol.1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiwoINeEAvo
The Lemmings Vol.3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYZ6s1xDgyQ

Another Good videos are the VER SFA3 clips:
http://www.youtube.com/user/vegascup (check the first uploaded videos).

[onReload]

http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=120578

That's the thread (I think) that shows what switches need to be flipped and why.

[Keiko]

http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=120578

That's the thread (I think) that shows what switches need to be flipped and why.

Thanks, i'm going to check it out later.

[Maj]

Oh i remember these Lemmings vids now. Haha oldschool Kawaks state loading messages, classic.

Yeah they're pretty good but i've seen better. Has anyone seen Combo Mania by 443?

(Why are the same combos recycled in every single SFA3 vid? Everyone records the same exact A-Ken vs Honda combo with the same exact setup.)

[Keiko]

Oh i remember these Lemmings vids now. Haha oldschool Kawaks state loading messages, classic.

Yeah they're pretty good but i've seen better. Has anyone seen Combo Mania by 443?

(Why are the same combos recycled in every single SFA3 vid? Everyone records the same exact A-Ken vs Honda combo with the same exact setup.)

Never seen that video before, i just looked for it in youtube i found nothing, do you have a link were i can get it Maj?

Vaniras made some exhibitions for A3 too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03lkA_k55xc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB8nTMdoUx4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqscPnUe8UA

I love this one, it's a classic - SFA3 A2 Script: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JPIU3wXRHk

[Maj]

Haven't seen it anywhere so i don't have a link to it, but i'll put it up somewhere for you guys within the next couple of days. It's kind of a big file and my upload speed sucks.

[Ultima]

I have a question about the Alpha games: What is the hitstun/blockstun on attacks? Is it fixed per L/M/H/Special attacks a la SF2, is it a small range like per L/M/H/Special/Super in SFIV, or is it huge range like in CvS2 (except for jumping normals, which are fixed)? Or does it differ from game to game? Thanks in advance to anyone who answers.

[Maj]

I haven't seen any impact freeze data for the SFA games, but it should be easy enough to count using emulator frame stepping. You can tell when impact freeze ends based on when pushback begins. Even if your absolute data is wrong because your visual cue is off by one frame, your relative measurements should be accurate based on the same cue. Just make sure to play on non-turbo speed when you do your test because all published frame data is based on normal speed.

Alternatively, you can count until the frame before the victim's first reversal frame, mashing out reversal inputs or whatever. F, D, DF+LP, MP, HP, LP, MP, HP, LP, MP, HP should give you a reversal every frame for about 7-9 frames, depending on the game.

[Dammit]

I think I found something that will make it easy to answer your questions.
These are the memory addresses that say how many hitstop/blockstop frames will happen.

Code: Select all

FF844F SFA|P1|stop
FF884F SFA|P2|stop
FF845F SFA2/2G/3|P1|stop
FF885F SFA2/2G/3|P2|stop
| |

Copy and paste into a text file and use with "RAM Watch" in Misc menu of FBA-rr.

Edit: Wait, what's the difference between hitstun & hitstop?

[error1]

Edit: Wait, what's the difference between hitstun & hitstop?

IDK who said anything about hitstop? I pretty sure hitstop is the same as impact freeze but I've never seen anyone call it that so I can't be sure. Most sf games impact freeze is around 10 frames I think

[Xenozip.]

Yeah, hitstop would be the amount of time that both characters freeze when an attack connects. Hitstun is the amount of time the opponent is still stuned after the hitstop occurs.

I believe it's rather variable for some games. Vampire Savior is a good example of this. It also applies to blocking. Bullet's j.HK has about 10 frames of blockstop, then after the character unfreezes they are pushed back and stuck in blockstun for another several frames (forget how many exactly).

This is also what creates that ridiculous Storm glitch in CotA, because she's able to bypass the hitstop occurrence for herself while the opponent is still forced into both hitstop and hitstun.

Likewise, Bulleta's unblockable works because her j.HK is a projectile, so she doesn't enter hit/blockstop herself but the opponent does. Usually hit/block stop only applies to melee attacks.

Also I interpreted the original question to mean something else. I thought it was like how Guilty Gear has certain attack "weights" or "levels", where any attack within that weight class will inflict the same amount of hitstun duration. This is useful when calculating cancels. For example, with SSF4 Ibuki's command dash, you know how much frame advantage each of her moves has when uncanceled, but just because a move has a lot of frame advantage doesn't mean it's the best move to cancel into command dash from, because each move inflicts a different amount of block/hit-stun while also possessing a different amount of recovery time after the first active frame. It's nice to know what he absolute heaviest attack(s) are so you know which ones give the best actual hitstun time after the impact.

[Ultima]

Sorry for the late reply, but my classes started back right around the time I posted my Qs here, and my final practical was only yesterday.

Dammit:

Hey thanks! I tried messing around with a frame-step emu but it seemed very time-consuming and my methods seemed very shoddy. I'll definitely try that when I get a chance, hopefully tomorrow.

Oh wait: Is that for hit/block STOP or hit/block STUN? I need the stun values, not stop.

Xenozip: re: levels

Yes, it' s something like that. Well, at that point I had only recently learned that SF2 had the equivalent of GGX levels of hit/blockstun for attacks. I thought hit/block stun was random for Capcom games, since my first encounter with Capcom frame data was the CvS2 guidebook (thanks Maj!). I've since realised the values aren't random, but seem to be have a huge range. SFIV, on the other hand, has mostly static values, though they too are in a range. I just wanted to know if, perchance, anyone knew if the Alpha games had "levels" like SF2/SFIV, or was all over the place like CvS2.

Aside from calculating useful cancels, I really just wanted to calculate hit/block advantage for Alpha's attacks like I can for most of SF2, since that data seems to not exist otherwise.

Hopefully the method by Dammit will prove illuminating.

[CPS2]

Aside from calculating useful cancels, I really just wanted to calculate hit/block advantage for Alpha's attacks like I can for most of SF2, since that data seems to not exist otherwise.

I think the fastest way to do this is to do an attack, let it hit or be blocked, then have both characters hold up and see who jumps first. If you use frame advance, you can get a pretty accurate idea of how much frame adv/disadv each guy has. Just watch out for characters who have extra pre-jump frames (e.g. Gief maybe, do a mirror match), and in some games some characters take extra hitstun for no reason (e.g. Gill in 2I iirc). You don't really need to know about hitstun for any of that.

[Dammit]

It happens that I've been developing a Lua tool that computes frame data automatically, if that's what you want.

http://lua.pastey.net/138261-d45m
Basically you save it as text, edit that game line to be sfa3, then load it from the file menu of FBA-rr. Then when you attack P2 it'll try and find the first frame when each player can jump and show the difference. You can press numpad+ to show recovery times instead of frame anvantage.

It will take some retries due to FBA being a crashy piece of crap.
And if the attacker or dummy recovers crouching, recovery is one less than shown because of the extra time to stand up before jumping.

It'll take some getting used to but might save you some time.

in some games some characters take extra hitstun for no reason (e.g. Gill in 2I iirc)

That's weird.

[Buttermaker]

LP/LK

Code: Select all

Health  Boost
144-65 	 0
64-0      +1

MP/MK

Code: Select all

Health  Boost
144-97     0
96-65     +1
64-33     +2
32-1      +3
0         +4

HP/HK

Code: Select all

Health  Boost	
144-113    0
112-81    +1
80-49     +2
48-17     +3
16-1      +4
0         +5

[Dammit]

That's interesting.
There's a similar reduction based on the target's lifebar right?

And no randomness?

[Buttermaker]

Yes, damage reduction starts at 48 health points.

I've never seen any randomness.

Specials and supers have damage boosts as well, but these are the only ones I've looked at.

Ryu's Dragon Punch

Code: Select all

Health  Boost	
144-113    0
112-81    +1
80-49	  +2
48-33     +3
32-1      +4
0         +5

Ryu's regular Fireball

Code: Select all

Health  Boost
144-97     0
96-65     +1
64-17     +2
16-0      +3

[Rithli]

Zero 2 -> Zero 2 Alpha Hitboxes

I got a hold of the "All About Street Fighter Zero 2 Alpha" book. I took some shots of the hitbox change comparisons (from vanilla Zero2/Alpha2 to Zero2Alpha) that were included. It seems like they only did this for characters that actually had drastic hitbox changes. The only thing of this nature that I haven't included in this set yet are Charlie/Nash's changes. Now you can see the real reason why A2 Chun Li players cried rivers and shunned this particular version.

[Ultima]

Hah. I've had that book for years. The biggest WTF is why did Adon, of all characters, have the most changes, almost all for the worse?

In fact, a lot of the changes didn't make any sense. Chun-li got off fairly easily, cause she's still top tier, just not as stupid as in SFA2. Ken, Ryu, Rose mostly got very minor tweaks outside of generally CC dmg reduction (and didn't Ken actually get another cancelable normal - c.s.HK - as his only notable change?). Meanwhile, Adon, Rolento, Gen, Gief, CHarlie and a bunch of other characters all got hi much worse.

[Dammit]

In 443's combo mania, Gen takes massive damage from super throws during kkk c.hp. Is there some trick to this?

[phoenix]

I just wanted to know if, perchance, anyone knew if the Alpha games had "levels" like SF2/SFIV, or was all over the place like CvS2.

Aside from calculating useful cancels, I really just wanted to calculate hit/block advantage for Alpha's attacks like I can for most of SF2, since that data seems to not exist otherwise.

Lucky you! I was just looking into this the other day.

Alpha2 has universal hitstun on 3 levels (at least for the normals)
Light attacks do 14 frames of hitstun
Medium attacks do 18 frames of hitstun
Hard attacks do 23 frames of hitstun

Also hitstop is universal. I have not looked at specials yet, or at blockstun.

What is really fascinating though that not just hitstun is universal, also knockback is universal. Or so it seems, I've only checked this with Ryu's st.lp and st.lk:
Frame 0: no knockback yet
Frame 1: 6 pixels knockback
Frame 2: 5 pixels knockback
Frame 3: 4 pixels knockback
Frame 4: 4 pixels knockback
Frame 5: 3 pixels knockback
Frame 6: 2 pixels knockback
Frame 7: 2 pixels knockback
Frame 8: 1 pixels knockback
Frame 9: 1 pixels knockback
Frame 10: 1 pixels knockback
Frame 11: 1 pixels knockback
Frame 12: 0 pixels knockback
Frame 13: 0 pixels knockback

There's lot's more to be researched on this, which I didn't take the time for. Perhaps you can do that

[Maj]

In 443's combo mania, Gen takes massive damage from super throws during kkk c.hp. Is there some trick to this?

Maybe it's version-specific? I've never seen anyone do that in the arcade version.

Lucky you! I was just looking into this the other day.

Nice! Good job sir.

[phoenix]

So, because I hope to make a nice page of framedata on Alpha2 someday, I went ahead and figured out the stun values. I figured people in here would be interested.

• Light attacks: 14 frames hitstun, 13 frames blockstun, 10 frames hitstop

• Medium attacks: 19 frames hitstun, 18 frames blockstun, 12 frames hitstop

• Heavy attack: 24 frames hitstun, 22 frames blockstun, 14 frames hitstop

• Command normal: 14 frames hitstun, 13 frames blockstun, 12 frames hitstop (Rose d/f+MK, Ryu f+MK tested)

• Command overheads: Variable, Adon & Ryu's are like medium attacks. Sakura's f+MK does 12 frames of hitstop but 24 frames of hitstun, 22 frames of blockstun like a heavy attack.

• Jump light attacks: 15 frames hitstun, 14 frames blockstun, 7 frames hitstop

• Jump medium attacks: 15 frames hitstun, 14 frames blockstun, 9 frames hitstop

• Jump hard attacks: 15 frames hitstun, 14 frames blockstun, 11 frames hitstop

• Specials: 24 frames of hitstun, 22 frames of blockstun, variable hitstop

[Maj]

Nice job sir. It's always good to have more info like this.

Hm, i doubt that command normal values are standardized though. What move did you use to test special move numbers? Those aren't standardized for sure. For example Ryu's HP Shoryuken causes 13-14 hitstop while Adon's HK Jaguar Kick causes only 6-7 hitstop.

[phoenix]

Nice job sir. It's always good to have more info like this.

Hm, i doubt that command normal values are standardized though. What move did you use to test special move numbers? Those aren't standardized for sure. For example Ryu's HP Shoryuken causes 13-14 hitstop while Adon's HK Jaguar Kick causes only 6-7 hitstop.

Yeah, I felt I had to look at that more too. All of Rose's special moves have 4 frames of hitstop it seems. I guess it's safe to say that hitstop on special moves is variable then. There might be some underlying system, but it's hard to find. It seems though, that fireballs do universally have 4 frames of hitstop.

Maybe I should add that these values are all based on the game on Normal game speed. Else the numbers would be inconsistent. Despite the game being played at Turbo 2, it's easiest to work with non-turbo numbers of course.

[Maj]

Yeah i tested under Normal speed too, but the numbers still seemed to vary by 1 frame. Not sure what to make of it.

[phoenix]

Yeah i tested under Normal speed too, but the numbers still seemed to vary by 1 frame. Not sure what to make of it.

I had a look at ryu's HP shoryu. It's 15 frames of hitstop every time. Not sure what method you used to count it, but the method I used gives a reliable image. I open up the hitbox viewer, check how long a hitbox is active on whiff (in case of HP shoryu, first hitbox is active for 4 frames), then I count the amount of frames it is active on hit (in case of HP shoryu, first hitbox remains active for 19 frames). 19-4= 15 extra frames when hitting, so 15 frames of hitstop. It is slightly confusing, as the opponent does not get knocked back the first frame after hitstop, which might have influenced your count.

[Ultima]

phoenix:

Hey thanks! I haven't gotten a chance to check sh/f for a while. Haven't had much time for anything really, between work, classes, wife+daughter+other-kid-on-the-way. But I'm glad to learn this info!

I suspect A1 is similar to A2 in the way that the hit/block stun levels work, so I'll keep those values in mind when going over SFA frame data. But I have a feeling SFA3 is completely different.

re: Gen

I think I can answer this: Gens' KKK c.HP is a double-edged sword attack: On counterhit, it does massive damage (like 250% damage I think), but if HE is CH out of it, HE ends up taking massive damage instead.