Got any Questions about SFA, A2, Z2A, A3, A3U, or HSFA?

[Dark_Chaotix]

Just sfa3 topic.

I have a question. How do you do V-ism Gief activation where he jump halfway across the screen? Glitch or a cancel and activation of a certain move at once?


Mod edit: Changed thread title from "Street Fighter Alpha 3 Topic" to encompass entire Alpha series.

[ShinjiGohan]

Xenozip should know this but IIRC you jump forward, activate and then perform his stomach crunch (headbutt in the Alpha series I believe) right after activation. and Dhalsim and Rolento have something similar. But thats just going from memory, Xenozip should probably know for sure.

[Xenozip.]

He has two headbutt moves (j8 j.HP and 6+MP). For the kattobi cancel it's actually his toward+MP move that is canceled.

The window for cancellation isn't instant, it's on the 3rd frame IIRC.

Chun and Sim also have kattobi, but they are mostly useless. Guy and Rolento can do damaging combos with theirs, however they require a particular niche setup in order to even work, and then afterwards it leaves them stuck in the air when the VC is done, leaving them open for any kind of death combo the opponent wants, so they are not particularly useful.

In other words, Gief's is the only useful one.

Chun's stomp cancel is not a true kattobi, but it kind of works the same way.

[Maj]

There was actually an article posted ages ago on SRK, revealing this trick to the SFA3 community for the first time.

Alpha 3 Kattobi Cancel by omni and ChoiBoy

They even got together with jchensor to make short video clips demonstrating each variant, but they're all offline now. A lot of that old content is still archived under SRK's hidden Articles & Features URL.

[ShinjiGohan]

Thanks for that link to the old articals. I found one on MWC 2000 and Javi mentions my brother in the A2 tournament lol. Ironically my brother remembers those matches too lol.

[Dark_Chaotix]

Ill get onto them and check them out.

Ive been using A-ism for ages and looking a more pro games they all use V-ism so it must be more better to use in the game. Ill check these articles out and have a read. No one has these vids anymore?

[Xenozip.]

Hehe, DARK-san recently posted something I found rather interesting.

- Air-throw whiff

It's interesting because I don't think anyone even knew that, or at least they didn't actively abuse it to my knowledge. If this is consistent then I could see this tech maybe even shifting the tiers around again. Pretty wild.

So yeah after seeing that I got off my lazy ass and posted this.

- Invulnerability glitches

All of it is very old news, and all of it is 980904 stuff.

[posix]

that's some really fun stuff you posted there, xenozip. i've always enjoyed watching your a3 stuff.

[Maj]

What's up with VC shadows not pausing during opponents' superfreeze? I'm trying to throw some knives at Ryu so that the first one interrupts his super FB recovery while the other one comes into play later. The problem is that there's literally no difference between VC2 delay and VC3 delay, cuz the shadow knife appears during Ryu's superfreeze in the same spot, then starts moving as soon as superfreeze is over.

Why is Alpha 3 hating on my inventive stylishness and forcing me to recycle boring old setups?

[Maj]

How come nobody uses A3 Rolento's unblockable Taunt grenade as a meaty setup? Seems like it would be free damage against anyone who gets caught meterless in the corner.

Also, is it impossible to pushblock A3 Rolento's Taunt grenade using Green S-Ism? I tried for like half an hour and didn't get it once.

[Maj]

What's the verdict on low juggle combos in HSFA? Are they really inescapable or is the Training Mode tech flipping system broken?

[Xenozip.]

There's a few things to consider.

- At a certain height from the ground you are unable to do a neutral tech, but backwards and "forward" techs are still possible up until a few pixels from the ground.

- You can toggle crouch cancels in the dip switches.

- With a valid setup, it's possible to set a tech trap where even if they do tech then they will be hit anyway. Since there's some frames after teching where you can't block but are vulnerable to hits. So some of these may be flippable but some may be valid anyway by means of trapping the tech and forcing an unblockable hit post-tech. If you're able to land a "meaty" attack into a tech for a tech-trap or force an unairblockable hit like a standing move or super, then you could consider it at least partially valid.

- If you want to know for sure if it can be tech'd or not, then the opponent should be a SFA1 or SFA2 character, the become instantly invulnerable to juggles on neutral IIRC.

[Maj]

Well, i'm asking in terms of what would be accepted as valid for inclusion in a combovid. If you have access to dipswitch options that affect combo rules, then i think the simplest approach is to emulate classic arcade SFA3 as closely as possible. So crouch cancels are in. It would be another story if HSFA actually garnered any noticeable tournament attention. But since it completely dropped off the radar, i think the most logical approach is to go with "hey check out what you could do with special-to-super cancels if they were available in SFA3" - which is fairly consistent with the whole intent/appeal of HSFA.

With that in mind, what i'm looking for is an understanding of what passes as completely untechable in HSFA. I would never label tech-traps as true combos, although they certainly do occupy a fascinating category of their own. Calling them combos means you also gotta call Gief's tick into SPD a combo whenever the tick connects from outside Bison's throw range in Hyper Fighting, since HF Bison has no reversal and can't escape it whatsoever.

Are there untechable combos in classic arcade SFA3 which are only untechable due to the "a few pixels from the ground" rule? If so, how do they interact with A3's limit of two corner juggles?

[Xenozip.]

Well, i'm asking in terms of what would be accepted as valid for inclusion in a combovid. If you have access to dipswitch options that affect combo rules, then i think the simplest approach is to emulate classic arcade SFA3 as closely as possible. So crouch cancels are in. It would be another story if HSFA actually garnered any noticeable tournament attention. But since it completely dropped off the radar, i think the most logical approach is to go with "hey check out what you could do with special-to-super cancels if they were available in SFA3" - which is fairly consistent with the whole intent/appeal of HSFA.

Yeah I agree with that logic, HSFA can't be taken seriously as a competitive fighting game, but if you go by SFA3 arcade standards then it's just SFA3 with the rules changed for exhibition purposes. Makes sense to me. Though there's some dipswitches "missing" in HSFA that are in SFA3, which means those switches are forced to be one way or another, but I'm sure most of them are only minor technicalities that can be ignored anyway.

With that in mind, what i'm looking for is an understanding of what passes as completely untechable in HSFA. I would never label tech-traps as true combos, although they certainly do occupy a fascinating category of their own. Calling them combos means you also gotta call Gief's tick into SPD a combo whenever the tick connects from outside Bison's throw range in Hyper Fighting, since HF Bison has no reversal and can't escape it whatsoever.

In that case any combo that reaches recovery/neutral is invalid then, except for Guy's. The only exception to that rule is dizzys.

So that means if you're on the ground and a move ends, the combo ends. The other exception is Gief's vertial j.HP headbutt and Gen's j.RHx2, which can always be teched immediately after they hit regardless of recovery/neutral states. And the other other other exception is Gen's Jakouha grab super that can break juggle limit rules.

I'm a little fuzzy on what you're asking though. If the opponent can tech and you can't accept tech traps then yeah; it's invalid. Easiest way to find out if the opponent can tech is just to choose an SFA1/2 character as the opponent and test the combo since juggle potential automatically ends if you enter recovery/neutral. I suppose you can set the HSFA auto-tech to forward tech, but the results should be the same with only the exception of Chun-Li who cheats.

Are there untechable combos in classic arcade SFA3 which are only untechable due to the "a few pixels from the ground" rule? If so, how do they interact with A3's limit of two corner juggles?

These would be invalid if you go by what is considered untechable based on SFA1/2 opponents. But to answer your question, I dunno. I know the mechanic exists so there might be at least a one but.. the thing is if they are 1F from the ground then they are only vulnerable for that 1F, so how would you set up the situation where you recover at exactly that frame and hit on the same frame? If you were landing from a jump the point is moot since crouch canceling takes care of that, but regarding everything else, what has 1F recovery and 1F startup?

I only know the mechanic exists from testing it, but I've never come across a setup that capitalizes on the mechanic.

Only the neutral-tech height limitation has practical combo setups that I know of, but these are designed so that even if the opponent forward/back techs they get hit, and if they don't tech they get hit, and they can't neutral tech so it's considered a valid tech-trap.

The thing about the corner juggle limit is that, if you're reaching that limit it means the opponent could have teched at some point. The limit increments when you hit recovery/neutral. With that in mind, that could be another way for you to test validity -- as in, if you hit the limit on the next intentional neutral state then some other part of the combo was invalid, and if you don't hit it then whatever you did before was technically valid.

[Maj]

Right, that's why i really like Ryu and Guy corner combos in A3, because players usually do take advantage of their respective untechable moves. Once that corner limit comes into play, the murky guessing games all but disappear. In fact i'm starting to think that all A3 exhibition combos should end with a techable corner finale whenever possible. Something really really basic like s.HP xx Taunt to show that the second corner juggle hasn't been used up yet.

Most games have two or sometimes three levels of validity as far as combo definitions are concerned. For example in addition to "real" combos, CvS2 also has OTG combos involving techable normal throws which nobody minds as well as EX-Groove combos which everyone hates. It's weird how A3 and HSFA have like eight distinct combo validity tiers - more than the Marvel series, even.

[Xenozip.]

Well, fact of the matter is, tech traps can be escaped if you have meter in V-ism or you have an A-ism air super to do it.

The A3 community still considers proper tech traps as valid because 1) no one escapes them in matches and 2) even if you do you have less chance to escape with some characters than others and 3) it's just assumed you don't have meter to defend yourself.

Regarding 3) GC strings and unblockable setups are considered valid for the same reason, so no one wants to assume the opponent can/will defend

But when you do assume that they can, the only characters that can start from a ground combo and advance to a crouchcancel series are Rolento Chun and Guy. Everyone else has to start air-to-air or stay on the ground and not end any moves.

[Maj]

Clearly established limitations are usually a good thing in the combo video world. Once you embrace the rules, that's when creativity comes into play. Like those V-Ryu players who dizzy the opponent, activate VC, whiff LP DP over the opponent's body, then set up inescapable crouch cancel j.MP infinite off the shadow DP launcher. All boxes are malleable.

[Xenozip.]

Right, like I said in a previous post, dizzies are an exception.

Guy, Ryu, Cody and Gen also have untechable moves but Guy's give him a lot more flexibility than the others.

Aside from that the options are very limited. Delayed fireballs, deflected fireballs, Rolento/Chun in v-ism, and that's about all I'm aware of.

But coming up with a solution to a problem would be a lot easier if I knew what the hell the problem was. This is all too vague for me to put any real brainpower behind it. I think I've given all I can give in regards to teching rules though, if the juggle fails on an A1/2 char then it's invalid.

[Maj]

Oh, the problem has already been addressed for the most part. What we're doing now is congratulating ourselves for our fine work in the field of problem solving. Maybe tying up a few loose ends in the process.

By the way, did you know that SFAA hates one-frame inputs? If i program a sequence of one-frame button presses using a ppad, SFAA will outright ignore half of them. Except it's totally randomized so you can actually get it to work if you try a billion times. This applies to HSFA as well as SFA3U, though i was too frustrated to tested the rest. Nothing like this happens with PC emulated SFA3.

Oh yeah, and i'm still wondering about pushblocking V-Rolento's Taunt grenade in HSFA. Is there a trick to it or is it outright impossible?

[Dark_Chaotix]

I have some old combos that i reced ages ago in A3 and wondering it they can be fixed to be better? I know like the cody one is air techable but I did it cos Of how the DM hits the opponent to continue juggle.

I also have some Jojo venture combos in there (ps1 version). Anyone that has played the ps1 version would know how limited it is and I havent seen a CMV of it at all, only the DC version. Wondering if someone wants to make one with me and share ideas?

Ill leave link when upload is done.

EDIT:

here is link

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=N5CXAA1Y

Password is abc123

[Dark_Chaotix]

I take it that no one is interested?

[Maj]

Man ... Alpha 3 AND Jojo's?? That's like the combo video decathalon of doom. Most work per square minute guaranteed.

Haha i can't decide which game is less supported. I only know of two people who play Jojo's but i'm struggling to think of anyone who doesn't lose to Alpha 3's combo system. There are soooooo many ways to make a bad A3 video. That game scares me.

I'm totally looking forward to watching this video if you finish it but all i can say is good luck.

[Doopliss]

In SFA, LK tatsu x3 with Akuma, what's up with that? I almost fell out of my friends bed laughing when I found it by mistake.

[Xenozip.]

I only know of two people who play Jojo's but i'm struggling to think of anyone who doesn't lose to Alpha 3's combo system.

:V

[onReload]

I know a chunk or two about JoJo's (Xenozip knows a whole lot), but not much about the PS1 version...I'd love to get it for super story mode, but not for the slow combat : Good luck on your video though

[Maj]

:V

Um, i'm not familiar with that emotion. What does it mean?

[Xenozip.]

To understand what it means you need a mirror.

Look into a mirror, then try biting your right ear, while slapping the limp wrist of your right hand onto your heart (left chest), while keeping your eye on the mirror. You can't bite it, but keep trying.

That's :V

But to summarize it in text it would be: "Daaaarrrrrrrrrrrr". Or just simply "duh". But it could also be "Durrr" or "Hurrr". Usually it's synonymous with "wat".

[Xenozip.]

Oh and the reason that :V was my reaction was because I was dumbfounded. I can't think of anyone that plays both SFA3 and Jojo's except myself. But while I know the SFA3 combo engine I don't actually play SFA3 much, and while I do play Jojo's plenty I don't actually know the combo system very well other than "shit scales a lot during juggles and some shit is untechable". :V

Oh and there's ground-based crouch cancelling and a stand-off-install glitch for tandem users.

Fortunately we have SFAA which has a training mode with auto-tech options and auto-block options so at least that can avoid any major screw ups. Jojo's however, unfortunately does not.

[Maj]

Of course you and onReload were the first people i thought of when Jojo's came up but i figured you had already seen this thread or would eventually.

Also i remember bringing up the prospect of an SFA3 combo video. You said you weren't interested in making impractical combovids based on highly conditional setups. From what i've seen, at this point all the practical combos have been covered, because five years ago A3 got to a point where everyone recycles the same combos. If there's any untapped combo potential left in the game, it's exceedingly hard to get to.

[Xenozip.]

Yeah practical combos are done, and even impractical combos have been done quite a bit too. Not to the extreme we see in CvS2, but yeah. Like you've said before it's the same concepts applied to a different game.

The rules of SFA3 do kinda limit some things, too. Anything that has to do with move-interruption would have to be done on the ground, I think. And then there's only so much you can do with slow fireballs before it gets repetitive.

A more interesting concept (to me) would be finding legitimate inescapable/unavoidable resets/techtraps.

Jojo's might be done too. Hard to say because there's so much potential in that game, but I've seen some pretty insane videos for it.