SSF4 Combo Engine Investigation

[Maj]

I think Cross Counter is one of those moves that anytime it appears in a combo, it's like instant championship parade. You could probably just make a video of Dudley Cross Countering random crap and get like a billion views.

[onReload]

Haha, yeah I think I said I was gonna investigate Cross-Counterage in a talk we had on AIM, 'cause it's pretty much been exhausted in 3s, yet not in SSF4...but then I was like well, using a friend's X360 (when he wants to use it for MvC3), with no ability to capture...ehhh I'll have to wait. So...arcade edition wait time!

[Pokey86]

Hmm, as far as i know Cross Counter (normal) removes all juggle potential... So there isn't any comboing after anyway. EX one is fine, but then you can only Ultra after because nothing else he has has a JP high enough, in such a short period of time. Some moves that would be good to CC are

EX Stomp -> Dictator

Makoto Abare Tosonami final hit + Super'd

Makoto Fierce Lvl 5 Rush Punch + Super.

Maybe her roundhouse Axe kick?

[onReload]

Hmm, as far as i know Cross Counter (normal) removes all juggle potential... So there isn't any comboing after anyway. EX one is fine, but then you can only Ultra after because nothing else he has has a JP high enough, in such a short period of time. Some moves that would be good to CC are

EX Stomp -> Dictator

Makoto Abare Tosonami final hit + Super'd

Makoto Fierce Lvl 5 Rush Punch + Super.

Maybe her roundhouse Axe kick?

you have to remember that CC can be armor broken...so ex stomp is definitely out

[Pokey86]

you have to remember that CC can be armor broken...so ex stomp is definitely out

lol, EX Stomp doesn't armour break

[onReload]

really? the heck am i thinking of?

[error1]

really? the heck am i thinking of?

Oga

[Pokey86]

did anyone know that if you Tandem in Seth (& i would presume a deep jump in) that you can link his Standing HK to his Close HP? I mean all this time i thought his strongest combo was stand MK to Crouch MP.

Apparently it's a 2 frame link, but it feels like a 1 framer to me.

---

Also if you do neutral jump HK (seths strongest jump attack) delay a bit then do Close HP -> Sonic boom you can FADC in to Crouch HP. I'm guessing the boom hits meaty. & it's likely character specific, works on Sakura.

[error1]

don't think I've seen hk to hp before, that's cool
of course you can also do Close HP -> Sonic boom -> lv2 ex focus midscreen due to Seths huge focus range

Honda seems to be the best dummy for seth juggles
you can do c.hp, j.mp, stomps x 3, divekick in the corner vs honda but doesn't seem to work vs anyone else

[Pokey86]

don't think I've seen hk to hp before, that's cool
of course you can also do Close HP -> Sonic boom -> lv2 ex focus midscreen due to Seths huge focus range

Honda seems to be the best dummy for seth juggles
you can do c.hp, j.mp, stomps x 3, divekick in the corner vs honda but doesn't seem to work vs anyone else

I didn't know that, i'll have a play around.

Anyway i checked out the Close HK to Close HP link & it only works on Seth out of the entire cast. It's still cool though, cause Seth now has some mad immediate stun combos, god knows i'll be using it in actual play to.

On top of that, if you do a LP boom it hits meaty enough that you can FADC to Crouch HP. I've got a new "Max Damage" combo with Seth now, totalling 628 & i might be able to squeeze in 1 or two more hitpoints.

Might be useful for Maj to know as it'll be a good basepoint for a "max damage" combo. As well as the oppertunity to build meter mid combo. for example

Stand HP (CH) -> EX Tanden -> HK -> Cl.HP -> Legs = Stun on Seth at about 400 damage with minmal scaling.

& it's a 2 frame link, not massively hard to pull off, useful.

[error1]

Did you try all the crouching characters? it's a lot easier to do on crouching charactors
Kind of wasted if it only works on seth, beacuse seth does stun really well, he can stun 1000 characters already
but he has low damage moves
http://www.gamefront.com/files/20404068 ... bounce.mp4
http://www.gamefront.com/files/20404074/seth+damage.mkv

[Pokey86]

Nah i didn't try crouching, i'll have a whip round with the characters & see. nice combo to super btw

[Doopliss]

Ohoho, new Seth stuff? Gotta try that out later. Btw error, for the Honda bounce combo,maybe you can do a mid combo wallbounce into super, similar to this combo. Maybe he's too low, though.

[error1]

he is really low, I could barely get high enough for the divekick

[Doopliss]

he is really low, I could barely get high enough for the divekick
maybe if you could get the dive kick to whiff

Well, if you can do j.d.MKx2 twice, it will whiff thanks to JP.

[error1]

shouldn't whiff I don't think, not after just two other hits
anyway I've been able to get 14 headstomps in a combo, I wonder if maj can do better

[Doopliss]

shouldn't whiff I don't think, not after just two other hits

I mean, doing the first two stomps, wallbounce, then do two more stomps.

anyway I've been able to get 14 headstomps in a combo, I wonder if maj can do better

I guess 16 would theoretically be possible, maybe 17, or up to 24 if you include stun. That is, if you can somehow land two on a grounded opponent. (2 grounded, 5 juggle, EX tanden, 5 juggle, EX tanden, 5 juggle, stun, 2 grounded, 5 juggled = 24)

[error1]

yeah it won't whiff thanks to JP, the second stomp has a jp of 3, it will whiff beacuse you are going too fast
yeah no way you can get 2 vs grounded. He is not nearly as good at hiting grounded opponents with headstomps as chun
and chun needs a slow fireball and two meters to burn to get two.
I don't think you can even get one without counterhit, and then you can't combo into c.hp without burning meter so you would need a different launcher

[Doopliss]

yeah it won't whiff thanks to JP, the second stomp has a jp of 3, it will whiff beacuse you are going too fast
yeah no way you can get 2 vs grounded. He is not nearly as good at hiting grounded opponents with headstomps as chun
and chun needs a slow fireball and two meters to burn to get two.
I don't think you can even get one without counterhit, and then you can't combo into c.hp without burning meter so you would need a different launcher

Oh yeah, it won't whiff, how silly of me. And 24 is just the theoretical maximum, if Maj somehow managed to get past all of those obstacles.

You can do j.d.MK, j.HK, c.LP without counterhit.

[Pokey86]

Crouching opponents don't seem to offer any extra chance of the HK -> HP link with Seth, which is a real shame. Hell even in AE i struggled to pull it off VS a crouching Seth after a jum in

[Maj]

I'm confused. Are you guys trying to reserve this stuff for another video? My name keeps coming up, but if these pieces are meant to help my Seth video, then splitting the discussion between here and there is only cause for an extra headache.

I mean how am i supposed to mention or develop any of this stuff without sounding like there's something shady going on behind the scenes? I can't just quote this entire discussion over there.

If this was a Saved by the Bell episode, you guys could save the day by re-enacting the entire conversation on the blog, but i doubt you can pull it off without the theme song keeping you in sync. Or if this was a Saturday morning cartoon, you could blow up the control panel and reverse the polarity. Unfortunately it's Monday evening so that's not gonna work. Um ... I'm out of ideas.

[Snoooootch]

^ Hahaha, error and I wrote a similar interest 1 minute apart.

[Pokey86]

I didn't like the idea of telling you clever links on a (very) open forum... After all i imagine alot of people, myself included, watch your videos to see the unexpected discoveries. Seeing something someone "said" would work on a forum that you read first can detract some of the magic from the spectacle.

TBH i'm surprised it hasn't been found sooner, like i mean, no shit player or good player has ever pressed the wrong button after a Tandem to HK. It's just garbage it only works on Seth, really REALLY annoying.

EDIT - It also works on Seth after an FADC in the corner

I have no plans on making a combo video, i'm not fond of single character videos as they tend to have alot of filler combos. But it is a shame when a cleve naunce goes unnoticed.

[Maj]

Don't expect very many surprises in this video. I'm going to discuss literally everything i find as soon as i find it. I would prefer having it look like a real discussion instead of always having to say, "So and so told me about such and such ..."

[onReload]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27M4ib13VY4

Pretty nice little input display on this semi-old issue, but...did he cancel EX Counter to Super there? It looks like KKK for the counter, then PP for super. I know you can cancel one Counter into the other (punch to kick, for example, I find pretty easy to do by hand), so can you cancel the counter into super? gonna try that. I guess I can't ask desora himself if he's leaving for China soon. Anyway, It's not TA so it's not completely clean (and the meter is on infinite, gah), but you can still see the general movement inputs.

Also, if desk is around - is that the same input you used? I'm interested in the inputs for these armor cancels - and I'm guessing Balrog's would be the easiest, most straightforward, yeah? (charge b~f,b+pp,f+kkk)?

[error1]

yeah those are all almost completely useless karas
he uses ex
if done properly it works as an option select, the super or ultra will only come out if the counter hits.
I think gief has the most straightforward armor cancel
720,kk,ppp

[error1]

boss characters mod by me
http://www.mediafire.com/?fhqwm5cn5q12hcq
this changes Akuma, Gouken, E.Ryu, and Oni to there boss versions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-Z4byMpoUM

[CPS2]

That's hilarious

[error1]

looks like at one point dan had a command throw, he basically trips you and then steps on you
the ex version he does a punch afterwords.
The move is called Zanshin, with a lot of effort I managed to reconstruct it.
Just the animations and the camera are in the file, so I'm guessing at things like range, start up, speed, sfx, damage, sounds, facial expressions.

http://www.mediafire.com/?3mc2k6wzlcv5u3l

[Pokey86]

manage to get a recording?