SF4 Biweekly TACV Series

[jchensor]

Yeah, actually, that's 5 as well. I counted my meters, wrong, forgot you could get that one too.

It's that darn Focus Crumple that lets you dance around all day. lol! I'm trying to think of a way around that. But by the time you start adding things like "You can't start with a Focus Crumple", then the challenge ends up being stupid.

The solutions I had were:

1) Focus Attack Crumple, Dash Forward, Low Forward into Drill FADC into Low Jab, Stand Fierce XX Cannon Spike FADC into Double Dash, Cannon Spike (4)
2) Focus Attack Crumple, Dash Forward, Dash Forward, Cannon Spike FADC into Cannon Spike FADCb into Ultra (but you can add the one extra Dash you had, Doopliss) (4)
3) Anti-air Focus Attack, Dash Forward, Dash Forward, Cannon Spike FADC into Double Dash, Cannon Spike Dash Back into Ultra (5)

So I guess maybe not that good. I'll think of something else.

- James

[Maj]

To be honest, i was planning to stop doing those on a regular basis because they're very time-consuming. UMK3 Shang Tsung bonus combo took me like two days. For one reason or another, i've never managed to make one of those challenge vids without it taking up at least one entire day, front to back.

I want to do one or two more classic challenges, like for CvS2 and maybe one of the Alpha games, but beyond that there's probably better things for me to work on. I'm really happy with the response and i'm glad i did this, but i think after a while it reaches a point of saturation where most people glaze over new ones. If anyone actually wants to participate, they can always go back to the old ones because i don't think anyone's done more than three - certainly nobody outside our group.

But if you think of something cool with Cammy by Friday, i'm down to do one more in your honor. The dashing idea is sweet cuz dash combos are essentially SF4's claim to fame and i always thought they looked stylish. But it's hard to come up with elegant rules which lead to non-standard combos.

[Doopliss]

I think I did 4 ;P

[Maj]

Some rough damage calculations against Seth ignoring lifebar-based scaling:

full Gyro Drive Smasher ultra = 540
counterhit lvl3 Focus Attack xx dash forward, full ultra = 150 + 378 = 528
counterhit lvl3 Focus Attack (fake dizzy), lvl3 Focus Attack xx dash forward, full ultra = 150 + 84 + 270 = 504

counterhit EX Cannon Spike (fake dizzy), full ultra = 200 + 432 = 632
counterhit EX Cannon Spike FADC, HK Cannon Spike (fake dizzy), full ultra = 200 + 150 + 378 = 728
counterhit EX Cannon Spike FADC, HK Cannon Spike (fake dizzy), lvl3 FA, full ultra = 200 + 150 + 84 + 270 = 704

counterhit c.HP, EX Cannon Spike (fake dizzy), full ultra = 138 + 160 + 378 = 676
counterhit c.HP, EX Cannon Spike FADC, HK Cannon Spike (fake dizzy), full ultra = 138 + 160 + 120 + 324 = 742
counterhit c.HP, EX Cannon Spike FADC, HK Cannon Spike (fake dizzy), lvl3 FA, full ultra = 138 + 160 + 120 + 72 + 216 = 706

counterhit j.HP, c.HP, EX Cannon Spike (fake dizzy), full ultra = 125 + 110 + 128 + 324 = 687
counterhit j.HP, c.HP, EX Cannon Spike FADC, HK Cannon Spike (real dizzy), full ultra = 125 + 110 + 128 + 105 + 270 = 738
counterhit j.HP, c.HP, EX Cannon Spike FADC, HK Cannon Spike (real dizzy), lvl3 FA, full ultra = 125 + 110 + 128 + 105 + 60 + 162 = 690

counterhit s.HK (interrupt), s.HP xx EX Cannon Spike (fake dizzy), full ultra = 138 + 100 + 128 + 324 = 690
counterhit s.HK (interrupt), s.HP xx EX Cannon Spike FADC, HK Cannon Spike (real dizzy), full ultra = 138 + 100 + 128 + 105 + 270 = 741
counterhit s.HK (interrupt), s.HP xx EX Cannon Spike FADC, HK Cannon Spike (real dizzy), lvl3 FA, full ultra = 138 + 100 + 128 + 105 + 60 + 162 = 693

counterhit s.HK (interrupt), s.HP xx HK Cannon Spike (fake dizzy), full ultra = 138 + 100 + 120 + 324 = 682
counterhit s.HK (interrupt), s.HP xx HK Cannon Spike FADC, HK Cannon Spike (real dizzy), full ultra = 138 + 100 + 120 + 105 + 270 = 733
--- tested real damage with lifebar-based scaling = 704
counterhit s.HK (interrupt), s.HP xx HK Cannon Spike FADC, HK Cannon Spike (real dizzy), lvl3 FA, full ultra = 138 + 100 + 120 + 105 + 60 + 162 = 685


might not be possible

counterhit c.HP, c.HP, EX Cannon Spike (fake dizzy), full ultra = 138 + 110 + 128 + 324 = 700
counterhit c.HP, c.HP, EX Cannon Spike FADC, HK Cannon Spike (real dizzy), full ultra = 138 + 110 + 128 + 105 + 270 = 751
counterhit c.HP, c.HP, EX Cannon Spike FADC, HK Cannon Spike (real dizzy), lvl3 FA, full ultra = 138 + 110 + 128 + 105 + 60 + 162 = 703

counterhit far s.HP, EX Cannon Spike (fake dizzy), full ultra = 150 + 160 + 378 = 688
counterhit far s.HP, EX Cannon Spike FADC, HK Cannon Spike (fake dizzy), full ultra = 150 + 160 + 120 + 324 = 754
counterhit far s.HP, EX Cannon Spike FADC, HK Cannon Spike (fake dizzy), lvl3 FA, full ultra = 150 + 160 + 120 + 72 + 216 = 718

[Doopliss]

You can do j.HK -> c.HP -> EX Cannon spike, but not c.HP x2 -> EX cannon spike.

[Maj]

Yeah i know. I was thinking trade setup but the standard Seth fireball/teleport setup won't work because c.HP doesn't cause enough hitstun for another one to combo, even if you got the Sonic Boom to hit Cammy from behind to solve the pushback issue. You can probably trade c.HP with Seth's jab, then walk forward and combo another c.HP but then the first one won't give you counterhit.

If you look at the frame data, it provides hitstun numbers as well. The combo i did was close s.HK (21 hitstun + counterhit bonus) into close s.HP (connects on 4th frame), and i'm pretty sure that was a one-frame link. Unfortunately c.HP hits on the 6th frame with only 22 frames of base hitstun, so the difference is one frame slower than the s.HK to s.HP combo. But i haven't tested it yet so this is all speculation.

Though maybe there's a much simpler solution. Since c.HP already naturally links to itself, if you connect meaty on the last frame that's an extra +3 and if you add counterhit bonus that's another +3. So that's 6 frames you can walk forward to close the gap. Though i'm not sure how long it takes Cammy to transition from crouching to standing/walking.

[Doopliss]

I'm just wondering, you think someone could do challenge 6 on Zangief with something like: Meaty CH Final TAP -> s.HK -> s.LP -> Ultra -> super? I would love to see that, but no way that I can pull it off, and every attempt takes like one minute.

[onReload]

I'm just wondering, you think someone could do challenge 6 on Zangief with something like: Meaty CH Final TAP -> s.HK -> s.LP -> Ultra -> super? I would love to see that, but no way that I can pull it off, and every attempt takes like one minute.

Ground Ultra to juggle super?

[Maj]

The real question is, can you combo two Final TAPs? Frame data says it only causes 21 frames of hitstun, which is way too low compared to its 30 frames of startup. It's actually at -30 when it connects. Maybe it's possible with a Gen super/ultra trade? Depends on how much impact freeze TAP causes compared to how much Gen's driveby causes. Speaking of which, we need to figure out what move causes the least amount of impact freeze in SF4.

Also, i don't know a whole lot about Alpha 3 but is it common knowledge that counterhit damage bonuses vary based on the type of move you're countering? Cuz that ghetto SFA3 A-Cammy bonus combo kills X-Akuma if it starts off countering his air fireball but not if it counters his divekick. The damage difference is clearly visible too.

[onReload]

Gen's driveby

Is this a common way to refer to his super/ultra? 'cause i almost shot dr. pepper out of my nose.

and I've noticed different counterhit damage values in A3 (usually from gief's standing fierce or jumping fierce) but i wasn't sure why.

[Maj]

I dunno, i've heard a few people call it that before. Also jchensor calls his air super "Minimum Gen" cuz it's like Maximum Spider except terrible.

[onReload]

I dunno, i've heard a few people call it that before. Also jchensor calls his air super "Minimum Gen" cuz it's like Maximum Spider except terrible.

Yeah most of the time I get that super to be "hey how you doin' all by yourself in the air? i just came up here to be next to you, 'cause grabbing certainly isn't on today's agenda."

anyway maybe the driveby thing is the LA culture sinking in

[Doopliss]

I'm just wondering, you think someone could do challenge 6 on Zangief with something like: Meaty CH Final TAP -> s.HK -> s.LP -> Ultra -> super? I would love to see that, but no way that I can pull it off, and every attempt takes like one minute.

Ground Ultra to juggle super?

Yes.

[error1]

I have a combo somewhere with two taps in it using dizzy, you can't do anything with fadcing it on hit unfortunately. I think most jumping jabs cause 11 frames hit stun but it's harder to follow up then a ground jab witch mostly cause 13 frames

edit http://www.filefront.com/15434515/

[Maj]

Nice. Though the problem with that combo is first off we can't see the damage. Second, the other TAP happens as the 9th hit of the combo, so it's only doing 20% damage and you have no meter to cancel into super. Third, it's a dizzy combo requiring Seth which actually kills him before he becomes dizzy.

Therefore it only works in Training Mode and the real problem in all of this is: Lifebar scaling resets when you wipe out the entire thing, which means even if you had Attack Data displayed, it wouldn't show accurate damage numbers.

Plus to get max damage, you have to create a counterhit setup for the first TAP, which takes Gief and Rufus off the table. Next highest vitality with a projectile is Sagat, and he might actually work. Maybe if you jump behind him as he's throwing a fireball, then hit him with Final TAP as he cancels into EX Focus Attack to create the counterhit setup. That's asking a lot but it might work. If not, there's always Guile at 1000vit/900stun.

And even then, it's probably impossible to beat counterhit Final TAP xx super unless you find a way to land two Final TAPs back to back.

[onReload]

How do you charge the second TAP so quickly?

[Doopliss]

How do you charge the second TAP so quickly?

He does Final TAP, then s.LK, c.LK, EX Upper, repeat. Which means he can hold PPP the entire time.

[error1]

yah I'm doing it with my punches tied behind my back, it really limits the options and the lks won't hit akuma. The best thing about programing that combo is that all the taps have the same hit stun, but different recovery so with the trade I could test it out with a lv. 1.

Counter hit only give +3 frames right? Not going to happen with a tap vs a normal 22 frame hit stun fireball.

[Maj]

Fuck, third (or fourth) character in a row without a fireball or the ability to combo into lvl2 Focus Attack. Makes one wonder why one insists on torturing oneself suchly.

Well, at least he can dash-cancel a one-legged kick.

[error1]

speaking of Able I was trying to do challenge 6 with him and managed to get around 150 hits ( not sure because it stopped keeping track at 99 ) but it was only 649 damage.
He can do 1 rep of the inf vs plenty of characters like Vega or Honda but can't push himself far enough away to get the far hit reaction to loop it. So if you find the right range you can do something like c.jab, s.jab, F+MK, dash, s.jab, c.jab -> rest of combo

[Maj]

Cool, i'm sure that'll come in handy for a combo where damage/stun doesn't matter. There should be at least one of those.

[Doopliss]

Btw, I uploaded a response to your first challenge video XD

[Maj]

Does Abel have a stun combo? Looks like his most damaging single-hit move is HK Wheel Kick at 160dmg/200stun. I'm pretty sure i could get that to trade with Gen's super to put him on the ground, but that's not a counterhit setup so counterhit far s.HP would actually do more damage (163dmg/250stun). And it looks like it has just enough frame advantage to link into F+MK if i made it counterhit meaty. Wow, it's sad how little damage his first rekka does.

counterhit far s.HP, F+MK xx dash forward, s.HP (one hit) xx HP rekka FADC, c.HP xx EX Wheel Kick should do 655 stun (250+100+80+35+90+100) which is still pretty far from dizzying Seth, sadly.

[Doopliss]

Yes, Abel is annoyingly limited when it comes to stun combos, with CoD being so weak, s.HP only being canceble after the first hit, and c.HP only doing 150 stun.

[onReload]

Does Abel have a stun combo? Looks like his most damaging single-hit move is HK Wheel Kick at 160dmg/200stun. I'm pretty sure i could get that to trade with Gen's super to put him on the ground, but that's not a counterhit setup so counterhit far s.HP would actually do more damage (163dmg/250stun). And it looks like it has just enough frame advantage to link into F+MK if i made it counterhit meaty. Wow, it's sad how little damage his first rekka does.

counterhit far s.HP, F+MK xx dash forward, s.HP (one hit) xx HP rekka FADC, c.HP xx EX Wheel Kick should do 655 stun (250+100+80+35+90+100) which is still pretty far from dizzying Seth, sadly.

He's got that loop against Chun that stuns...and we saw some interesting things against crouching chun last night, but I don't think there are too many moves that force crouching in this game, so after dizzy it would just be a standing chun dummy.

[error1]

I haven't tried a Seth sonic boom combo but could a counter hit J.hK, s.hp ->sonic boom interrupt, F+MK etc work

[Maj]

Hm, that might work with Abel in the corner, but i don't know about counterhit. It'd be much easier to hit Seth out of the teleport instead of letting him recover. Anyway seems promising; i'll try it out.

I don't know what the hell to do about that loop combo. It seems like the most boring thing in the world to me. Eh, maybe i can start by wasting a ton of meter then build it all back so at least it'll be an interesting combo from a meter usage perspective. Without that one combo, this would be the shortest video ever. With it, the longest.

[onReload]

Hm, that might work with Abel in the corner, but i don't know about counterhit. It'd be much easier to hit Seth out of the teleport instead of letting him recover. Anyway seems promising; i'll try it out.

I don't know what the hell to do about that loop combo. It seems like the most boring thing in the world to me. Eh, maybe i can start by wasting a ton of meter then build it all back so at least it'll be an interesting combo from a meter usage perspective. Without that one combo, this would be the shortest video ever. With it, the longest.

Since its focus is the dash kick, you can do like 2 reps then change it up, no? i mean that's damage scale city but that's what the game's about

[error1]

chun is one of the hardest chars in the game to stun as she has 900hp and 1050 stun so stunning her is a lot of trouble and will take at least 10 loops after all your other stun.

[Maj]

Yeah but i don't think i have any other choice, because if i throw single or double loops into every combo then they'll all start to look generic. Plus with meter building reduction during combos, it's basically like meter is tied to damage/stun so if it takes 10 loops to dizzy Chun then i'm sure it would take that long to rebuild any useful amount of meter.

Honestly i don't mind Abel because i wanted to get to him at some point, but all i gotta say is the next person better pick Rose.