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I still don't like the concept of SFvsT. It's like mixing oil with water, simply won't do.

As an avid player of both games (well, more biased on Tekken), I'm really not liking the premise. Systems way to different from each other.

Well it's just a relapse of CvS and SvC, right? Assuming they make a sequel anyway!

I agree with Don Vecta. SF has light, strong, and fierce. Tekken has low, middle, and high punches. How do you make the two work with eachother? I'm VERY interested to see how it's gonna work.

SF has low, middle, high as well... But I don't see the problem. SVxT has Tekken characters adapted to fit in the SF playstyle, TxSF is the other way around.

I think the bigger problem is going to be diversifying the Tekken characters. They're way more similar to each other compared to Street Fighter characters. I mean they're all close quarters melee fighters with no range game and no air moves.

I'm sure Paul and Bryan feel completely different in Tekken, but if you put them in a Street Fighter game, they're practically the same character. Unless you give Bryan a machine gun, that is.

Well, we have Kuma, Yoshimitsu, King who are kinda unique. Aren't there some kind of devil as well? I'm not going to pretend I know anything about Tekken. Although this is why I'm annoyed that they excluded SC, it has a very varied roster. Algol vs Akuma would be awesome.

I think it'll work if they pick an oddball cast and avoid using duplicates. Since we already have Kazuya and Nina, i'd like to see Yoshimitsu, one of the Kings, one of the bears, one of the Jacks, one of the breakdancers, Steve, Lei, either Hwaorang or Baek, either Michelle/Julia/Wang, either Law/Lee, either Bryan/Bruce, i guess Paul, and maybe some of the new characters since they're all weirdos.

I'm sure there will be at least one more Mishima but i hope they don't have all five of them or whatever.

Oh yeah, and Mokujin is dope. I want to see him SPD someone.

I still believe both games are like trying to combine ice cream and pizza, both quite awesome by their own but horrible mixed together.

Dunno... i'm still quite awkward with the concept... but meh, who the hell, I'd end up playing both of them anyways... maybe just out of fucking curiosity.

it's easy to see characters like kazua, paul, and Yoshimitsu in a street fighter game but I have no idea what they are going to do for nina. Nothing she has feels like a special move to me, they should give her a fireball or something. And I hope they don't make all the mid moves in tekken overheads, like Kazuas rising sun qcb move ends in a mid totally outclassing the messiah kick. I just hope they get rid of those double ultras, that seems like a really bad Idea to me

Yeah, I can't get over it. Ono is going to surprise us though. I bet.

by telling us it's a joke? i hope? at least tell me it's only like 5% done, what with chun-li doing hoyoukusen into a spinning bird kick wtf

onReload wrote:by telling us it's a joke? i hope? at least tell me it's only like 5% done, what with chun-li doing hoyoukusen into a spinning bird kick wtf

Yes, that was weird. I expecter Kazuya to fly up, but she did a spinning bird kick instead. I was confused.

Well, how are Tekken and Street Fighter more different than COTA/MSH and Street Fighter?

cota/msh doesnt have its own games that strays away from the sf formula, it was built with SF in mind which is why it easy to port over. Come on man.....Since its 2d no more SSing or ducking a high during a string to launch. What makes tekken isnt there at all....Kaz cant wave dash ffs.

CvS series is kinda of bad aswell, in terms of the SNK cast. Its hard to adapt to no CD attacks and an actually 6 button layout. What button scheme will they have for this??? 6 or 4?

Anyways, its based of sf 4 engine so i prob wont be touching it....

You can't sidestep in Marvel but you can superjump so high that the other character isn't even on the screen anymore. How is that "built with SF in mind"? Also Marvel has had wavedashing since COTA (which was released in the same month as Tekken).

The bottom line is this isn't a mix of Street Fighter and Tekken. This is a Street Fighter game with Tekken characters. If you like Street Fighter and you're a fan of Tekken characters, you'll like SFxT. It was the same with X-Men vs Street Fighter: "If you like COTA/MSH and you're a fan of Street Fighter characters, you'll like XvSF."

Rumor has it that there's also going to be a Tekken x Street Fighter developed by Namco, with SF characters incorporated into a Tekken engine. I'm sure you'll like that better if you want to be playing Tekken instead.

I don't think it was such an odd mix for streetfighters to be fighting against marvel characters simply because the streetfighters tend to strike me as mutants anyway (hi Blanka), with all kinds of special powers and abilities. You could say that extreme martial arts tends to border along the same lines as mutants and magic, just look at all the dudes flying around in classic wuxia films.

Capcom wasn't stupid, rather than making the marvel characters conform to the street fighter formula, they power-upped the streetfighters and gave them better specials/supers/superjumping/running/airdashing/doublejumping/pushblocking/etc to conform to the marvel engine. Maybe they could have also done CapcomVersusMarvel and had the marvel characters conform to the SF engine, but I seriously doubt it would have been nearly as cool or make as much sense.

In my opinion, since we're getting TekVCap and CapVTek one of them is probably going to suck, but the other one might not.

There's a lot of ways that the tekken characters could handle fireballs in the SF engine, such as: low jumping (KoF hops), dodges, rolls, some kind of parry/focus, etc.

There's also some ways to handle streetfighters in a tekken engine, such as splitting into a spray of fireballs to make them more difficult to sidestep, and modifying some of their moves to launchers and juggle-type moves, which isn't foreign to sf chars since they had that in MvC and XvSF.

If anything, its the tek vs sf thats going to suck. How can you have sf character not throw fbs? To me its like having item move in tekken and no one uses it for obvious reasons.

My hate is with the sf engine. I dont like it and to have a game I do like in an engine i do does my head in. It was the same with CvS, i didnt like the conversion of buttons to 6. Im sure you guys thought the same in CvS with sf characters having to deal with just 4 buttons.

My original post just meant that msh / cota to a VS game wasnt that hard because they followed 6 button layout and those game were a base of the VS series already (super high jumps, aerial combos etc)

All in all its a stupid idea....Seeing kaz doing ff dashing and not wave dash isnt right. How are they going to fit all the moves available in tekken in this one....obviously they are and there are only going to keep the most memorable(?) ones. I think VF vs Tekken should of been the best take and closet to eachother. Would also help the VF community in other countries by doing it.

I dont see any of the SF players playing the namco more anymore then the tekken players playing the capcom model.

You know, it's not like Capcom hasn't ever made a 3D fighting game before. They probably could have done RivalSchools vs Tekken.

capcom fighting games just arent real 3d fighters

Well, in terms of game quality, the Capcom vs SNK experiment went something like:

CvS2 > SvC:MotM > CvS1 = SvCC

And i'm not sure where to put SNK's Card Fighters and CFC2. Or any of the garbage remakes like CvSPro, CvS2EO, etc.

Regarding matchups ... In CvS2, the Capcom characters dominated the top tier. In SvC:MotM, i heard Gief was pretty good but that's all speculation without tournaments. In CvS1, i think SNK had the edge with Nakoruru being better than Guile, and the R1's were fairly even. Then SvCC was a mess, but i think Geese and Zero were both ridiculously broken.

Of course Capcom characters have a long-standing tradition of getting owned up in Marvel games, so i wonder who will come out on top between Capcom and Namco. I wouldn't really be surprised either way. Nakoruru beat the hell out of everyone with ground speed and mixups, and that's what Tekken is all about. Then again, how does Tekken deal with zoning monsters like Guile, or Vega, or Sagat?

Should be interesting to see, at the very least.

In card fighters Capcom was better because Kyosuke is broken, but in the next tier of characters ( Akuma, Orochi Iori, Yoshiro, Yamazaki ) SNK has the edge.
and I would put CFC in like this
CFC > CvS2 > SvC:MotM > CFC2 > CvS1 = SvCC > Card Fighters DS

It seems like the only thing Tekken an sf have in common is footsies, so it would makes sense to make SFXT a footsies centric game like 3s

Maj wrote:You can't sidestep in Marvel but you can superjump so high that the other character isn't even on the screen anymore. How is that "built with SF in mind"? Also Marvel has had wavedashing since COTA (which was released in the same month as Tekken).

The bottom line is this isn't a mix of Street Fighter and Tekken. This is a Street Fighter game with Tekken characters. If you like Street Fighter and you're a fan of Tekken characters, you'll like SFxT. It was the same with X-Men vs Street Fighter: "If you like COTA/MSH and you're a fan of Street Fighter characters, you'll like XvSF."

Rumor has it that there's also going to be a Tekken x Street Fighter developed by Namco, with SF characters incorporated into a Tekken engine. I'm sure you'll like that better if you want to be playing Tekken instead.

Anyways, I guess the point here is that Capcom could have get away mixing up KOF 98, KOF 95, Samurai Shodown, COTA, MSH and any other stuff because the premise somehow it's the same: 2D environments with attacks coming from weak to strong, special moves with a more complex motion that causes chip damage, Super moves/DM's, air/jump game (air-2-air, air-2- land, anti-air, aerial rave, etc.), etc... but everything came from what Capcom and SNK offered to the 2D scene while it was built. Hell, I'm sure even a SF vs MK or a SF vs BB or GG wouldn't suck that much since the basic premise of the game it's still there: Capcom and SNK built the 2D fighting scene as it is. Adapting characters into a common gameplay wouldn't be so mind-fucking since the base of the 2D fighting game it's still there.

Now, Virtua Fighter, Tekken, DOA, Bloody Roar, BA Toshinden, Soul Edge/Calibur series, etc, their premise it's to play in a 3D world were side stepping, juggling, frame punishing, OKIZEME, CH stun attacks, wall game, tech trapping, no chip damage from specials (nobody play these games with the guard damage on, btw), ring outs, etc. are more considered. Indeed, many of these elements were already introduced or adapted into 2D gaming but they cannot be the same. Most of these games play in a close quarters style... just like a "real fight" could be (or as real it can ever be). In fact, the few ones unleashing fireballs or laser beams are usually heavily punished and most people rarely (if ever use it in factual competitive gaming). Air game it's almost null: some people might hop to avoid a sweep or just automatic hop attacks can be done but it's not the typical jump in HK, dMK, qcf HP, right?

So, after contemplating the hell to heaven differences between those systems I really simply cannot digest that this amalgam could work: Tekken fans would feel awkward and some disappointed of how their favorite characters got butchered and the SF fans would be clamoring in rage that Ryu's fb would be nastily punished by a side step player who would eat him alive from frame disadvantage, then B!'d then taken to a wall and afterwards just don't let him stand up.... or worse: RING OUT!

Oh, and one more thing: HOUSE ALWAYS WINS! Don't be surprised Capcom characters would be top tiers in SFvsT.

Maj wrote:Rumor has it that there's also going to be a Tekken x Street Fighter developed by Namco, with SF characters incorporated into a Tekken engine. I'm sure you'll like that better if you want to be playing Tekken instead.

It's not a rumor, it's fact

Don Vecta wrote:Now, Virtua Fighter, Tekken, DOA, Bloody Roar, BA Toshinden, Soul Edge/Calibur series, etc, their premise it's to play in a 3D world were side stepping, juggling, frame punishing, OKIZEME, CH stun attacks, wall game, tech trapping, no chip damage from specials (nobody play these games with the guard damage on, btw), ring outs, etc. are more considered.

All of those elements already exist in 2D games. Sidestepping isn't some huge fundamental thing that has no equivalent in 2D games. It's just a gimmick. Rolling and dodging in CvS2 serve the same basic function. Street Fighter is more about normal moves than throwing fireballs. In fact you can turn off special move block damage in 2D fighting games and very little will change. It's just a convention that we're used to. It's not essential.

Most Tekken characters will work fine in the SF4 engine. Most of them will be boring because Tekken characters aren't as diverse as SF characters, but that's fine. I'm sure Capcom will figure something out and give them some extra moves.

Most SF characters will work fine in the Tekken engine. I'm sure their special moves will be de-emphasized and they'll have to use more normal moves, but i'm sure Namco can easily fill in the blanks and give Ryu ten more overheads. Reduce everyone's jump height/speed, reduce Gief's throw range, make everyone's attacks unsafe, turn supers into unblockables (aka useless), and make everyone's fireballs work like Paul's Phoenix Smasher.

What's the big problem here? These two games have just as much chance of succeeding as any fighting game.

Yeah I figure they'll just use Ryu/Chun etc. as 'character inspiration' for new Tekken characters - so they'll share the same names and some of the moves. What we've been finding out from Marvel, SuperSF4, is that a lot of what's important for fan interest is what characters are included, so Chun-Li's thighs and hair buns will draw people in more than "how is SBK applicable in this game?" and the more people drawn in, the deeper the playerbase, and the deeper the gameplay. I'm just glad they're keeping the two games separate instead of trying to blend 3d and 2d - now that, i would agree, would never work.

You can adapt some moves to make more sense in a 3d fighting world, and vice versa. The hadouken concept is basically an extension of fists, so any power punch or kick type of move from a Tekken character can be turned into a projectile, and the opposite is true with a hadouken, it can become a two-palmed strike with no real range.

Dude, you can give projectiles infinite range in Tekken. It won't hurt the game. It's all played at super close range anyway. Once you sidestep the fireball, it doesn't matter where it goes. Once the fireball connects or is blocked, it doesn't matter how far it would've gone.

The only thing you have to be careful of is super-slow fireballs that characters can chase after. But someone like Guile will have a hard enough time throwing a Sonic Boom with Law rushing him down. The problem probably won't even come up. If they can hop over fireballs on reaction then Guile won't even have a cornertrap.

Just give fireballs the same basic frame data as Paul's QCF+2. Not crazy fast but not too slow, vulnerable on startup, instant good range once it becomes active, safe on hit and block, unsafe if sidestepped. Problem solved. It feels like a Capcom fireball at midrange but Tekken players will have no trouble dealing with it. Street Fighter players won't have a problem being forced to use normal moves because if you've been playing Street Fighter for a long time, that's what you do anyway.

Maj wrote:
What's the big problem here? These two games have just as much chance of succeeding as any fighting game.

Its just not the same Maj. Even if it wasnt on sf4 engine it still wont be good. To me if sf does get on tekken engine, it reminds me of Kof MI series with the inclusions of fireballs in 3d plane. At the end of the day that game failed among the kof community and only a few players like it (and still play it). I see this the same with sf on tekken engine and visa versa. I know where VV is coming from because I play both tekken and sf (3s mainly not sf4 but still an sf game).

Maj wrote:Most Tekken characters will work fine in the SF4 engine. Most of them will be boring because Tekken characters aren't as diverse as SF characters, but that's fine. I'm sure Capcom will figure something out and give them some extra moves.

Maj, really? I agree to disagree on this one. Tekken characters have a lot of moves... a minimum of 60 different attacks each (some more, some less). The thing that gives edge it's the use of them in battles and it's pretty hard to find a player with a similar style just because there's many choices of gameplay.

Now the thing the have to do is which attacks would be normals, which oens would be specials and whichs ones would be supers/ultras. It's almost sure that 10 hit strings would be either ranbus or deadly rave type of attacks, unblockable attacks would immediately qualify as supers/ultra and the same of super grabs like Anna's, King's or AK.

Adapting a character wouldn't be a problem, the thing is that it WON'T feel like Tekken at all. It's just the looks of the Tekken characters with moves that look similar but will not have same properties, won't be pulled out the same and can't be used like their original counterparts.

Kinda reminded how I got bummed trying to use Vice (my favie character of all time) on CVS the first time I played: definitely far cry from 96 or 98. I kinda liked a bit the N groove since that was the closest thing i got to play from 98 but still Vice wasn't the same, yet the learning curve wasn't real hard considering she still have some of the moves that made her dangerous somehow or at least allow me to play with bt more confidence.

Now put me Anna on a 2D realm and I'd be in a land of WTF in no time, i mean, I don't think a ff 3 launch, df 1, df1 2 , df 1 B! uf 1 3 3+4 would work, will it?

Also, how would SF player like it if they pick someone like Gief knowing that if they do a special throw (like spd) it can be escaped. You cant do that in sf but you can in tekks. Im sure throw characters from sf would get turned off. And if i were a king or AK player ( I can use AK) i want to do iSW the proper way and not a qcf etc notation....

Don Vecta wrote:Tekken characters have a lot of moves... a minimum of 60 different attacks each (some more, some less). The thing that gives edge it's the use of them in battles and it's pretty hard to find a player with a similar style just because there's many choices of gameplay.

They only have a lot of moves if you zoom in and compare ranges with 300% magnification. If you put them in a Street Fighter game, those differences will blend together. You still have 20 characters who do the same basic thing: midrange pressure with high/low mixups, no fireball, and no jump game.

Does anyone in Tekken have a divekick? An SPD-range untechable throw? A teleport? A fireball reflect? A full set of 3/4 screen limbs? Superjump cancelable normals? Anything resembling Vega's wall dive? Anything resembling Psycho Crusher? Anything resembling air Hurricane Kick?

Because i guarantee you that in SFxT, at least five Tekken characters are going to be given fireballs, at least three of them are going to be given SPD-range command throws, at least two of them are going to get teleports, at least four of them are going to get fireball reflects, and there's going to be a whole bunch of crazy air specials with controllable trajectories. Because that's what it takes to differentiate characters in a Street Fighter game. If this was the Marvel engine (MvCxN?), things would get even crazier.

But like i said, this isn't going to be a Tekken game. Just like MvC2 isn't a Street Fighter game. Just like CvS2 isn't a KoF game. Just like SvCC isn't a Street Fighter game. By now the trend should be obvious. If you don't expect SFxT to be a Tekken game, i don't see why it can't be a good fighting game.

It's not interesting to you to see how Kazuya would fare if he was a Street Fighter character? It's certainly interesting to me how Guile will fare as a Tekken character.