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Yeah now that you mention it that "felt" weird to me, too. Which, my impression prolly means absolutely nothing. But I would like to know if the frame (dis)advantage and crossthrough properties are somehow connected.I mean, I know it sounds kooky (so why would they be connected?) but how would you explain a move having 6 active frames resulting in the same (dis)advantage regardless of what frame it hits on? Like nevermind distance, what about meaty?

I'm telling you, I don't think Rose's qcf+K Spiral (and ex-fa well after the initial hitframes) is such an anomaly. I think knuckles mysteriously work like spirals and they both work weird.

I'd venture a guess that it's some sort of "suki" that I can't explain or understand. But I can feel it (the suki). And it sorta makes abstract sense (in a nonsensical way).

Like, I can't think it through right right now, but my main goal for solving this would be to verify the (dis)advantage off a meaty and somehow try and find a way to confirm what exactly that uncancellable suki really is (which probably means interrupting the move and comapring data or somesuch shit).

Well, the simplest explanation would be that it goes directly into recovery when it connects, similar to Cannon Spike and Yoga Flame. That would explain why meaty setups don't help, cuz combo-wise there's no benefit to meaty Yoga Flame.

EX Thunder Knuckle definitely has this property, because it can go full screen distance if you let it whiff but it never goes that far when it connects up close. She does end up at different positions but i think it's usually based on the screen borders more than anything else. She travels faster than the screen scrolls so if you start kinda far away then she'll end up kinda close. If you start close, there's a lot of empty screen behind the opponent so she ends up kinda far. This also explains why there never seems to be any noticeable difference in recovery time.

Ending up in front of Guile is still weird though. Maybe it's just SF4 hitboxes being weird. Or maybe it's the screen scrolling problem again. The camera seems to react very slowly to EX Thunder Knuckle.

The Spike/Flame concept just seems weird to me, because of the type of move it is. Like, why would they do that.

I don't know, boredom? Maybe they ran out of ideas or time or budget? Dhalsim only has two special moves in World Warrior and they both use the same animations. Maybe they tried something karayzee to hide that fact.

Rufus/Viper video has a 4.69 rating btw. That's 4 1/2 stars, for the first time ever. Have expectations exceeded reality? Is the tide of favor turning away?? Tune in next time for like more things that might happen... !!

New friend in your comments section maj? Hahahaha

We should really bash his only video to hell and back XD

Maj wrote:Once you solve that problem you run into the real problem of nothing comboing off low forward. EX ground pound doesn't work, flame kick doesn't work obviously. All you can do is MP/LP Thunder Knuckle.

Well, you can Ultra, right? With the Super Jump cancel?

- James

That's true i guess. So either you do c.MK sjcancel ultra or c.MK xx MP Thunder Knuckle xx super, but i don't know how you'd set that up to make it look good. It'd probably have to be the second half of a dizzy combo. Though i don't think there's enough hit stun to link c.MK after a sparkle-canceled medium attack. You can do c.MP but it has a lot less range.

Like i said, Rufus and Viper aren't my favorite characters for a lot of reasons so i'm sure someday a dedicated Rufus/Viper player will come along and obsolete everything i've done. That's fine with me.

My objective was never to make The Last SF4 Combo Video. The goal of this series is to stir the pot a little, cuz it seemed like SF4 combos had gotten a little stagnant. I try to do the best i can in two weeks but sometimes i'm just not that into the characters (Rufus/Viper/Fuerte) and other times it's simply not enough time (Dhalsim).

Cammy has nothing that combos into lvl2 Focus Attack huh? Wonderful.

And she can't even divekick from Hooligan?

Maj wrote:Cammy has nothing that combos into lvl2 Focus Attack huh? Wonderful.

And she can't even divekick from Hooligan?

Don't get me started. Cammy and Claw are just the epitome of bastardized characters.

Yeah I'm really glad the recent screenshot winner picked Cammy for the next video as she's one of my favourite SF characters and I've been anxious to see what you can come up with. I know you probably don't want to do it again but I'm sure she can exploit the Rose LP fireball FADC setup, probably interrupting her super. I'll try and help out with this one as much as I can.

Yeah i'm kinda forced to use it whenever the character doesn't have a fireball. It just sucks that she can't combo into lvl2 FA. Otherwise i could've done something like ...

j.HP, s.HP xx HK Cannon Drill (one hit) xx lvl2 EX Focus Attack (LP Soul Spark interrupt), j.HP, s.HP xx HK Cannon Drill xx lvl2 Focus Attack xx dash ...

Looks like she can't link j.HP into divekick either, not even on counterhit.

Maj wrote:Yeah i'm kinda forced to use it whenever the character doesn't have a fireball. It just sucks that she can't combo into lvl2 FA. Otherwise i could've done something like ...

j.HP, s.HP xx HK Cannon Drill (one hit) xx lvl2 EX Focus Attack (LP Soul Spark interrupt), j.HP, s.HP xx HK Cannon Drill xx lvl2 Focus Attack xx dash ...

Looks like she can't link j.HP into divekick either, not even on counterhit.

Ah it sucks you can't cancel into a long crumple, 'cause my favorite style combo with her is focus, backdash cancel the recovery, hooligan to the airthrow version (something scissor something). You can just do FA3 -> hooligan air throw though, some people might find it cool regardless - it doesn't look nearly as weird as the regular airthrows on grounded characters

Yeah i like that too but it's already featured rather prominently in Dj-B13's Cammy combovid so i dunno. Incidentally, that video is a lot more repetitive than i remembered it being. Most of the "basic" and "intermediate" combos are simply "advanced" combos with moves missing.

Maj wrote:Yeah i like that too but it's already featured rather prominently in Dj-B13's Cammy combovid so i dunno. Incidentally, that video is a lot more repetitive than i remembered it being. Most of the "basic" and "intermediate" combos are simply "advanced" combos with moves missing.

I was thinking, "Someone's probably beaten me to the punch, but mayyyybe not..." Serves me right haha.

See if you can pull of trade cannon spike -> QTK. It' probably have 0 JP, but it's worth a shot.

What's QTK?

Haha i'm not down with official names. I only look those things up when i'm writing a guide or a transcript, then promptly forget them. Descriptive names are better. Upblast!

Quick Turn Knuckle? I'm not sure what move you are refferring to but I assume it's hcb+P.

Tiger Knee? (TK Strike).

Her hcb+P move is called Axle Spin Knuckle.

Nope, it's called quick spin knuckle in SF4. I was kinda tired when I wrote that, so that's why I didn't feel like writing the whole thing. AND spelled it wrong XD

What's interesting (aka goddamn lame) is that her regular Cannon Spike only juggles if it connects early. That whole upward part doesn't juggle at all. At least the EX version does maintain its juggle potential but of course that takes her super out of the question.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ5WpbaA ... re=channel

Looks like they've already started fiddling around with hit properties in SF4 XD Soon, we will be able to create our own movesets XD

Wow, Cammy has -nothing- interesting whatsoever. Here's what you can do:

midscreen lvl2 Focus Attack xx dash backward, HP hooligan grab as they crumple
Spin Knuckle or Hooligan slide, Cannon Spike
EX divekick, regular divekick

Here's what you can't do:

Combo into lvl2 Focus Attack (not even off EX divekick or counterhit HK drill)
Combo into Spin Knuckle or Hooligan slide
Combo into regular divekick from anything other than EX divekick or lvl2/lvl3 Focus Attack
Juggle ultra after non-FADC'd EX Cannon Spike

This chick is so dang boring! I've got one combo and this cold/flu from hell isn't helping one bit.

Alright i found one other thing that's kinda vaguely sorta cool. Against Seth she can do j.HP, close s.MP, walk forward, close s.MP, c.MK xx HK Cannon Drill (one hit) FADC, s.LP, s.MP, walk forward, s.LP xx HK Cannon Drill (one hit), s.LP, s.HP xx HK Cannon Spike for 413 damage / 655 stun (or 438 damage / 705 stun with counterhit j.HP).

non-counterhit stun: 200 + 100 + 100x0.8 + 100x0.7 + 100x0.6 + 50x0.5 + 100x0.4 + 50x0.3 + 100x0.2 + 50x0.1 + 200x0.1 + 200x0.1
non-counterhit stun: 200 + 100 + 80 + 70 + 60 + 25 + 40 + 15 + 20 + 5 + 20 + 20 = 655

I dunno, maybe it'll stun if i put a lvl3 Focus Attack at the beginning but i doubt it:

non-counterhit stun: 200 + 200x0.8 + 100x0.7 + 100x0.6 + 100x0.5 + 100x0.4 + 50x0.3 + 100x0.2 + 50x0.1 + 100x0.1 + 50x0.1 + 200x0.1 + 200x0.1
non-counterhit stun: 200 + 160 + 70 + 60 + 50 + 40 + 15 + 20 + 5 + 10 + 5 + 20 + 20 = 675

Guess not, cuz even with counterhit lvl3 Focus Attack (which may or may not be possible) that'd only add up to 725. Though if i switch the second and third strings, the basic version will go up a little:

non-counterhit stun: 200 + 100 + 100x0.8 + 100x0.7 + 100x0.6 + 50x0.5 + 200x0.4 + 100x0.3 + 50x0.2 + 100x0.1 + 50x0.1 + 180x0.1
non-counterhit stun: 200 + 100 + 80 + 70 + 60 + 25 + 80 + 30 + 10 + 10 + 5 + 18 = 688

Same thing with lvl3 Focus Attack at the beginning:

non-counterhit stun: 200 + 200x0.8 + 100x0.7 + 100x0.6 + 100x0.5 + 100x0.4 + 50x0.3 + 200x0.2 + 100x0.1 + 50x0.1 + 100x0.1 + 50x0.1 + 180x0.1
non-counterhit stun: 200 + 160 + 70 + 60 + 50 + 40 + 15 + 40 + 10 + 5 + 10 + 5 + 18 = 683

Not surprising - Focus Attack version gets owned up by ordering optimization. Whatever, i'm tired of thinking about this. I'm sure i'll find some boring ghetto solution tomorrow.

But you can't do FA to air move anyways? D: Or were you planning some kind of trade?

j.HP, close s.MP, walk forward, close s.MP, c.MK xx HK Cannon Drill (one hit) FADC, s.LP, s.MP, walk forward, s.LP xx HK Cannon Drill (one hit), s.LP, s.HP xx HK Cannon Spike for 413 damage / 655 stun (or 438 damage / 705 stun with counterhit j.HP).

Alternates you could do is.

J.HP (CH) - 250
Cr.HP - 200
Cr.MK - 80
Canon Drill - 70
FADC
Cl.LP - 30
Cl.HP - 100
Canon Spike - 80

Stun

J.HK
Cl.MP
Cl.MP
Cr.MK
Canon Drill
FADC
Cl.LP
Cl.MP
Cl.LP
Canon Drill

---

Did you have something planned for post stun I'll admit the above alteration is pretty boring? IS it possible to combo in to (EX) Canon Drill in the corner to Canon Spike?

Doopliss wrote:But you can't do FA to air move anyways? D: Or were you planning some kind of trade?

Trade like in the Viper video. Unfortunately the only way to make it counterhit is with Seth's Sonic Boom and i'm not sure that's even possible. Either way it doesn't matter.

Pokey86 wrote:Alternates you could do is.

J.HP (CH) - 250
Cr.HP - 200
Cr.MK - 80
Canon Drill - 70
FADC
Cl.LP - 30
Cl.HP - 100
Canon Spike - 80

Yeah there's a bunch of simple ways to dizzy Seth but they're all boring and they've all been done before. I think counterhit j.HP, close s.MP, walk forward, close s.MP, c.MK xx HK Cannon Drill (one hit) FADC, s.LP, s.HP xx HK Cannon Spike FADC, HK Cannon Spike would work too, though it's still kinda boring and uses a lot of meter.

I dunno, i'll think about it. There's no way this video's getting done today anyway.

Okay how the hell did that Dj-B13 Cammy combo dizzy Sagat? It doesn't even look like he used counterhit lvl3 Focus Attack.

lvl3 Focus Attack, divekick, s.LK, s.MK, c.MK xx HK Cannon Drill (one hit) FADC, c.LK -> c.LP, s.LK xx HK Cannon Drill (one hit) FADC, c.LK -> c.LP, s.LK xx HK Cannon Drill

counterhit stun: 250 + 100x0.8 + 50x0.7 + 100x0.6 + 100x0.5 + 100x0.4 + 50x0.3 + 50x0.2 + 50x0.1 + 200x0.1 + 50x0.1 + 50x0.1 + 50x0.1 + 180x0.1
counterhit stun: 250 + 80 + 35 + 60 + 50 + 40 + 15 + 10 + 5 + 20 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 18 = 598

Man i really really hate GUI-disabled combo videos.

Just by looking, theres no way that combo made the 1100 necessary to stun Sagat, maybe he pre-prepared Sagats stun meter. OR altered his propperties

I reacted to that the first time I saw it too. He probably hit him beforehand.