SF4 Combo Engine Investigation

[error1]

lol daigo thought it was a possible combo setup to.
Simple combos shouldn't give you any problems, a few 1 frame links will give any script or programmable controller a run for it's money.

[Maj]

on a completely unrelated note, the ground ex tatsu for both Ryu and Akuma only knocks down on the last hit.
I saw an Akuma Chun match on the seasons beatings stream where Akuma got a few hits off an ex tatsu but Chun remained grounded and it looked like Akuma could have combed out of it. I don't remember what chun was doing and haven't been able to duplicate it but It feels like a possible setup.

Fucking EX Hurricane Kick, fuck that move. It does nothing but break my heart every chance i give it. I've gone through four or five awesome combo ideas, none of which worked because EX HK caused the exact wrong effect every single time.

1) Tried trading EX HK with Gen's ultra, which brings Ryu to the ground but EX HK causes so little hit stun that it's impossible to combo after Ryu recovers.
2) It's not fast enough to juggle after point blank LP DP.
3) Tried doing two EX Hurricane Kicks in the corner but it's damn near impossible to get all five hits out of the first one and get the second one to keep them in the corner instead of knocking them out, and even then Ryu floats too long to connect an ultra afterwards.
4) Tried killing Akuma with lvl3 FA xx dash, F+MP, c.LP xx EX HK which normally gives you three hits out of the EX HK and misses the last hit, but turns out if you kill them with any special move it's instant knockdown and then the last hit always connects cuz Akuma's hitbox is different when he's falling than during ground hitstun.

Seriously what the fuck. What have i ever done to EX Hurricane Kick to deserve this kind of treatment?

Speaking of possible setups I saw this in a match vid recently and thought it might be able to be applied to an actual combo.

3:45 on this vid -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuM60G3fyRA

Oh man, that is awesome. It's too bad it didn't work because it looked like it was only a couple of frames off. Maybe if he got the reversal or if he was slightly farther away at the beginning. I don't know if it'll be nearly as impressive in a combo video though, cuz it's so easy to do ultra after super normally with Ryu. Maybe it'd look good in a randomness video?

[onReload]

Yeah Daigo certainly didn't activate the Ultra as fast as possible, I could tell during the Ultra-freeze that she was too low...worth giving a shot for fun I guess, or seeing if you can throw more juggle shit in?

[Xenozip.]

Yeah you can see him fully crouch after getting up before the Ultra comes out. I'd like to know if it's even possible just for the sake of knowing, but I dunno if I have the patience to test it myself.

[Maj]

Patience? Haha it's SF4. The reversal window is like 700 frames wide. It'll take you somewhere between 0-1 tries.

[Maj]

Are there any hitbox diagrams for SF4? I've never seen the Japanese guide but i'm betting there are a few examples included inside. There's a lot of weird stuff in this game that i'd love to see as colored rectangles. At the moment i'm most curious about the second and fourth attacks in Fei Long's ultra.

[Xenozip.]

Yeah I couldn't tell you where exactly but somewhere on SRK some one posted some scanned pages with hitboxes.

I don't know if I really believe them though because some of the boxes were diagonal rectangles. Heresy.

[Maj]

Hah, thanks. I'll go see if i can find it. If there are indeed diagonal hitboxes, i suppose i'd rather know about them than not.

[error1]

Look like Daigo knew what he was doing, you can't always do it as a reversal because sometimes you will get up before the last hit of the super dissipates and you'll wake up with a dp instead. It's much harder to hit with in the corner.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NNBYNL5I

Sometimes you're knocked over to the other side of chun, I wonder if it's possible to do the ultra going in the opposite direction as the super.

[Maj]

Haha nice. I don't think Ryu is the best candidate for this setup though. It would be more useful with EX FB since you'd have more options when you got up, but it's pointless because EX FB has ridiculously quick recovery already.

Anyway i found the scanned page reportedly from Street Fighter IV: The Complete Guide posted in this SRK thread. Apparently those are the only hitboxes shown in the book.

Orange: vulnerable from physical attacks
Blue: vulnerable from throws
Green: invulnerable from projectiles
Box: hit box

[error1]

Should green be vulnerable to projectiles? All the other hit boxes denote vulnerability
I wouldn't have guessed there was a throw hit box, throws normally hit in the same place.
Diagonal rectangle is hard to believe, but I suppose it's noting modern consoles can't handle.

[error1]

So I was trying to see if I could get far enough ahead of a fb with ken to do a hk and use the fb to combo out of it with no success, but I ran into this ultra glitch. Might work with any fb character with a autocombo ultra
akuma, gouken, seth, rose are the ones that may be worth trying next.
notice the eye trails on akuma

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=4R2117F0

If you could somehow work this into a long combo it would do crazy damage because it causes the damage scaling to reset. After a dizzy and you might get a 100% damage combo.

[Maj]

Whoa, crazy! See, this is exactly the kind of stuff i'm talking about when i say people haven't explored this game properly yet. Nice find sir. I'm looking forward to seeing where this leads. ST Gief FAB glitch status! Too bad there are no shadows in this game.

So I was trying to see if I could get far enough ahead of a fb with ken to do a hk and use the fb to combo out of it with no success

Really? He gets pretty damn far ahead if you do LP FB FADC, whiff EX Hurricane Kick, whiff HK air Hurricane Kick. I haven't tried to make a Ken combo with it but from the looks of it you should be able to do LK Hurricane Kick and follow it up with ground stuff.

[error1]

ST Gief FAB glitch status!

No it's sfz2a Rose super soul throw status!

Really? He gets pretty damn far ahead if you do LP FB FADC, whiff EX Hurricane Kick, whiff HK air Hurricane Kick

I'm sure it's possible it's just not as easy as I thought it would be. I figured I'd be able to do it without using most of the super bar and running a few screen lengths but that's not the case.

I tried it with akuma, rose, and seth without any luck. Haven't checked with gouken but I don't have much hope because he doesn't have a slow fireball. Dan might work but he can't get in front of his gadoken. Guess I need to see if ken can do it after a dizzy without the help of his opponent.

[Maj]

ST Gief FAB glitch status!

No it's sfz2a Rose super soul throw status!

Haha your call. But the general rule is, always go with the most OG option available. I remember when i first found this Vega claw glitch, i was so happy cuz finding a charge trick is like the most OG thing you can do.

I'm not surprised about Rose and Seth because both of those look like grabs. Plus they're easy to test so i'm pretty sure i've tried Rose and i know i've tried Seth. Akuma's not too surprising either, but then again i was a little surprised by Ken so making assumptions is a bad idea.

I think you'll have more luck with trying to interrupt the person doing the super/ultra rather than the person getting hit by it. Partly because that opens up more of the roster to test and partly because projectile characters tend to cross themselves off the list by having projectile supers/ultras. I've seen Bison's ultra cause weird effects when he gets hit by a fireball during the Psycho Crusher part, and i would expect Fei Long's ultra to act weird too.

[Xenozip.]

Haha nice. I don't think Ryu is the best candidate for this setup though. It would be more useful with EX FB since you'd have more options when you got up, but it's pointless because EX FB has ridiculously quick recovery already.

Anyway i found the scanned page reportedly from Street Fighter IV: The Complete Guide posted in this SRK thread. Apparently those are the only hitboxes shown in the book.

Orange: vulnerable from physical attacks
Blue: vulnerable from throws
Green: invulnerable from projectiles
Box: hit box

Yeah that was the page I was referring to. Diagonal...pffft.

So I was trying to see if I could get far enough ahead of a fb with ken to do a hk and use the fb to combo out of it with no success, but I ran into this ultra glitch. Might work with any fb character with a autocombo ultra
akuma, gouken, seth, rose are the ones that may be worth trying next.
notice the eye trails on akuma

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=4R2117F0

If you could somehow work this into a long combo it would do crazy damage because it causes the damage scaling to reset. After a dizzy and you might get a 100% damage combo.

Ok that was freaking cool. I'd be funny if you could actually grab Ken with something and then he still interrupts with the rest of the Ultra.

[error1]

I think you'll have more luck with trying to interrupt the person doing the super/ultra rather than the person getting hit by it.

Believe me I've tried them all there is not much you can do with it. Characters are generally invincible when doing the auto combo type moves.

I've seen Bison's ultra cause weird effects when he gets hit by a fireball during the Psycho Crusher part

The trick with this is to trade with his ultra in the corner.
Bison has to start his fly up the wall thing and get hit out of it.

The only interesting thing he can do out of it is otg into his super ( yes otg in sf4 )

and i would expect Fei Long's ultra to act weird too.

I've traded hits with his ultra before and I can tell you it creates an unusually large amount of hit stun so it might be a good place to start a combo. Don't know if you can knock him out of the flying kick but I would be surprised if you could.

[Maj]

I know the Bison trick is old, but Ed Ma was the one who told me about it and we were messing around with it for a little while. Anyway i happened to try j.MP which hit the falling opponent and actually stood him up on the ground. So there's definitely potential for a full combo starting with ultra. I mean, you can get almost the entire thing to connect - except for the stomp part - before you start your combo. Maybe even j.HK then ultra. Not bad for a character who doesn't have too many ways of connecting an ultra on the ground.

As for Fei Long, i wouldn't try to interrupt the flame kick. I'd try to interrupt the launcher before he jumps.

[Raine]

Nice work on the Ken glitch. Too bad Gouken can't hit him out of it with Shin Shoryuken Ultra, that would've been pretty sweet.

Speaking of Bison, I was wondering if it would be possible with SF4's combo/juggle engine to do something like this:

j.MP, EX Scissor FADC, j.MP, Ultra

or something along those lines that involves using 1 hit of j.MP, doing some kind of move on the ground and then comboing back into j.MP?

[error1]

did some more of ken's ultra glitch added some music and u2bed it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPmlYVQltGI

[Raine]

Comboing into Ultra with Chun-Li using the same meaty jab trick as the c.LP, SBK loop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WzyXRlM65M

[error1]

In the c.LP, SBK loop the jab isn't meaty. You can do jb -> SBK from any range vs any opponent. It's not a link. It is similar to Abel's infinite loop tho.

[Maj]

Maybe Remxi was referring to the SBK hitting meaty?

Ken vid turned out great btw. Vega, Gen, and Dhalsim were the best. Though i totally thought you were saving Ken ultra vs Ken ultra for the end, but then it never showed up. It's probably nothing special but it would've been satisfying to see.

[Raine]

I thought that infinite worked because the spacing meant that the jab wasn't hitting on it's first active frame? Actually I think I'm getting mixed up with another combo I saw recently.

This guys channel has a lot of good Chun-Li material.

[Maj]

Nah i'm pretty sure that infinite works because the jabs push the opponent away so that there's a big delay between LK SBK hits. It works cuz the last LK SBK hit is meaty, not cuz of the jabs.

I think Balrog's the one who can combo meaty jab to ultra.

[error1]

HOLY CRAP!
So I knew opponents could move during superfreeze.
When you use superfreeze you are normally invincible.
I found a move that can hit the invincible.
So I decided to see what happens when you hit someone in superfreeze.
It's crazier then I imagined.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPn8pDfjo0k

So is this sfz2a soul illusion during superfreeze status? Or sfa3 alpha combo projectile glitch status? Does it go to the older glitch or the older game?
Is someone willing to post this on srk for me or should I register an account there

[onReload]

HOLY CRAP!
So I knew opponents could move during superfreeze.
When you use superfreeze you are normally invincible.
I found a move that can hit the invincible.
So I decided to see what happens when you hit someone in superfreeze.
It's crazier then I imagined.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPn8pDfjo0k

So is this sfz2a soul illusion during superfreeze status? Or sfa3 alpha combo projectile glitch status? Does it go to the older glitch or the older game?
Is someone willing to post this on srk for me or should I register an account there

wow, amazing find. i asked questions on the vid page.

[Maj]

Whoaaa! That's weeeeird. I can't believe how many frames of animation there are. And it's so crazy that Dan is moving at normal speed when he shows up on the screen again. Something tells me this glitch is going to lead to a lot of craziness.

Haha i think it's ST Akuma Raging Demon glitch crossed with MvC Venom throw glitch.

I'm down to post it on SRK if you really don't want to register there but i think you should. It's your find, you should receive credit for it. I posted your first vid on CX, HVO, and NeoGAF earlier but i thought you should be the one to post it on SRK.

[SlimX]

Man, that was seriously epic hahah. That sort of discovery is my favorite. Very nicely done.

If there's actually stuff like that in the game, I may actually have to spend some time in training mode. I try to get out and they pull me right back in!

[Xenozip.]

Epic. GJ sir.