SF4 Biweekly TACV Series

[error1]

it's your meaty setup
http://www.filefront.com/15491181/meaty.mkv

Code: Select all

Func test()
	opt ( "SendKeyDelay" ,0)
opt ( "SendKeyDownDelay" ,16.6)
Send ("{numpad6 down}")
Sleep (20)
Send ("{numpad6 up}")
Sleep (20)
Send ("{numpad6 down}")
Sleep (20)
Send ("{numpad6 up}")
Send ("{numpad2 down}")


Sleep (20)


Sleep (80)
Send ("{down down}")
Sleep (20)
Send ("{right down}")
Sleep (20)
Send ("{down up}")
Send ("{d Down}")
Sleep (20)
Send ("{d up}")
Send ("{right up}")
Sleep (20)
Send ("{numpad2 down}")
Sleep (20)
Send ("{numpad4 down}")
Sleep (20)
Send ("{numpad2 up}")
Sleep (20)
Send ("{numpad4 up}")
Send ("{numpad2 down}")
Sleep (20)
Send ("{numpad4 down}")
Sleep (20)
Send ("{numpad2 up}")
Send ("{y Down}")
Sleep (20)
Send ("{y up}")
Send ("{numpad4 up}")
Sleep (1570)

Send ("{c Down}")
Sleep (20)
Send ("{c up}")
Send ("{numpad2 up}")
EndFunc

[Maj]

Dude how the hell can i be fucking up meaty timing on a 3-frame active move? All i did was knock down Dan and time meaty HP CoD as he got up.

... And now it magically works.

Alright whatever, mystery solved i guess. Thanks for clearing that up.

[error1]

Dude how the hell can i be fucking up meaty timing on a 3-frame active move

I figured it was a distance thing, like Balrogs dash punches the closer you are, the less start-up it has. Also you can link c.hp or f+mk of a meaty counter hit dash canceled f+mk

[Maj]

Actually Abel can do those combos on counterhit without requiring meaty, because he cancels into dash as soon as F+MK impact freeze ends.

Generally meaty setups don't provide any benefit on cancel combos, but Abel's rekka chains are a weird exception. There's a visible amount of recovery lag after impact freeze between each rekka and that's what the meaty setup helps with. In fact, you can perform the entire rekka chain even if it whiffs so it's a special case in a lot of ways.

[error1]

your right you can do a counterhit f+mk to c.hp. I wonder why, counter hit should only give three frames right but c.hp is 8 frames so it looks like counterhiting gives 4 frames.

[Maj]

It's probably just another special case. If counterhit gave 4 extra frames across the board, we would've probably noticed by now.

[Maj]

So this is the Abel vs Rose combo i want to do:

j.HP, s.HP xx rekka FADC, s.HP xx EX rekka (LP Soul Spark triggers armor) xx ultra

It's not working. I wasn't sure if maybe Abel's s.HP was reaching into the Soul Spark too soon, so i switched it to c.LK which goes under it and still no luck. So i programmed the following sequence to try to test armor canceling.

D.D.DR.DR.R.R.D123.DR.R123.

Maybe it'd be clearer to write it like this: D (2f), DF (2f), F (2f), D+LP+MP+HP (1f), DF (1f), F+LP+MP+HP (1f)

Now if you time it correctly against Rose's fireball, this sequence gives you either armor cancel ultra or armor cancel EX upgrab on a roughly 50/50 basis. Let's attribute that to converter error or timing or whatever. The important thing is this: When i execute that sequence on its own, Abel does either EX upgrab or ultra every single time. After 50 tries, he's never once done EX rekka, even though he's clearly kara-canceling to imbue EX upgrab and ultra with armor properties for 1(?) frame.

As far as i can tell, this special move kara-cancel stuff isn't possible out of a cancelable normal move. It's difficult to be sure but i can't seem to get it to work if i add c.LK to the front. Even if it was possible, i doubt the game would allow you to cancel a normal move into a special move and then kara-cancel into ultra because with the way people mash online, we would've seen that shit somewhere by now.

[Doopliss]

So this is the Abel vs Rose combo i want to do:

j.HP, s.HP xx rekka FADC, s.HP xx EX rekka (LP Soul Spark triggers armor) xx ultra

It's not working. I wasn't sure if maybe Abel's s.HP was reaching into the Soul Spark too soon, so i switched it to c.LK which goes under it and still no luck. So i programmed the following sequence to try to test armor canceling.

D.D.DR.DR.R.R.D123.DR.R123.

Maybe it'd be clearer to write it like this: D (2f), DF (2f), F (2f), D+LP+MP+HP (1f), DF (1f), F+LP+MP+HP (1f)

Now if you time it correctly against Rose's fireball, this sequence gives you either armor cancel ultra or armor cancel EX upgrab on a roughly 50/50 basis. Let's attribute that to converter error or timing or whatever. The important thing is this: When i execute that sequence on its own, Abel does either EX upgrab or ultra every single time. After 50 tries, he's never once done EX rekka, even though he's clearly kara-canceling to imbue EX upgrab and ultra with armor properties for 1(?) frame.

As far as i can tell, this special move kara-cancel stuff isn't possible out of a cancelable normal move. It's difficult to be sure but i can't seem to get it to work if i add c.LK to the front. Even if it was possible, i doubt the game would allow you to cancel a normal move into a special move and then kara-cancel into ultra because with the way people mash online, we would've seen that shit somewhere by now.

Are you sure that the spark hits you as soon as you activate EX CoD?

[error1]

As far as i can tell, this special move kara-cancel stuff isn't possible out of a cancelable normal move

I can confirm this. I've tried kara focus to taunt cancels before and it doesn't work. Also tired it with gen's stance cancel, he can't do a kara focus to stance change or exfocus into stance change.

[Doopliss]

EX focus doesn't even have armor, right?

[error1]

EX focus doesn't even have armor, right?

yah but gen can't do something like hands, and instead of doing an fadc do a fa to stance change.

[Maj]

Okay cool, at least we got that squared away. So absorbing a hit isn't what enables armor canceling one move into another, because obviously you can kara stuff even without interacting with opposing attacks.

You can even test this stuff without tool-assistance. Just record the training dummy kara-canceling Focus Attack into Taunt and play back to verify. If you do nothing, he'll keep taunting and never do Focus Attack. If you hit him right as he starts, he'll absorb the hit and armor cancel into Taunt. Either way, the kara cancel happens.

[Maj]

So uh, Abel can super/focus cancel his command roll? What the fuck? How is that useful apart from wasting meter?

Also i tested the combo upgrab interrupt combo i mentioned earlier but it didn't lead to anything useful. You can do HP upgrab (Rose j.LK interrupt), EX upgrab (LP Soul Spark interrupt) but reversal EX upgrab whiffs straight through her, EX flipkick is too slow, and ultra looks like it's too slow by maybe two frames, but i don't have much faith in that juggling either.

So i ended up "comboing" two upgrabs for zero damage and nothing showing up on the combo counter. Would've been cool if EX upgrab connected though.

[onReload]

So uh, Abel can super/focus cancel his command roll? What the fuck? How is that useful apart from wasting meter?

I suppose when you can start reading when an Abel player will roll, if he's smart, he can start a roll, then FADC and punish your punish...but that's probably too slow.

[error1]

You can do HP upgrab (Rose j.LK interrupt), EX upgrab (LP Soul Spark interrupt) but reversal EX upgrab whiffs straight through her,

can you do HP upgrab (Rose j.LK interrupt), c.hp, EX upgrab (LP Soul Spark interrupt)?

[Maj]

No cuz upgrab isn't a juggle setup. EX upgrab connects because it has a juggle potential of one.

[jchensor]

Vega's regular wall dive grab is a true throw but his EX wall dive grab is an unblockable hit.

!!!

Seth's command grab is a true throw. Seth's vacuums are weird! Seems like EX vacuum is a simple hit but regular vacuum is a blockable throw.

I think Vacuums are just... a new "type" of attack, alongside Throws and Hits. They seem to have their own life. I dunno, that's how it kinda seems to me... like they needed to code something entirely new for it to work.

And by the way, I dunno why, but I think it was awesome that you used the plane stage, just so we can see Abel run Dhalsim into the TRUCK. That made the Super look so much cooler for some reason. Hahaha. No imaginary walls! TRUCK! It's like X-Men Vs. Street Fighter all over again.

- James

[error1]

the difference between ex and normal vacuum is that the ex will hit in the air. So the ex can use a simple invisible projectile with a strange hit reaction but the normal version needs something else. The only definitive way to tell if it's a throw are not is to look in the cmn file and see what it has.

[Maj]

And by the way, I dunno why, but I think it was awesome that you used the plane stage, just so we can see Abel run Dhalsim into the TRUCK. That made the Super look so much cooler for some reason. Hahaha. No imaginary walls! TRUCK! It's like X-Men Vs. Street Fighter all over again.

Haha yeah, i had to change it all around to make that happen when i got to Versus Mode. I'd been testing the ppad sequence in Training Mode going right to left since it looks better for 1P Abel. But yeah, it's kinda cool how the truck shakes with every corner punch too.

the difference between ex and normal vacuum is that the ex will hit in the air. So the ex can use a simple invisible projectile with a strange hit reaction but the normal version needs something else. The only definitive way to tell if it's a throw are not is to look in the cmn file and see what it has.

There are definitely more differences than just that. You can trade with EX vacuum but you can't trade with normal vacuum. Also EX vacuum can trigger the "First Attack" message whereas normal vacuum can't. Regular vacuum doesn't even connect during Sonic Boom hitstun right? It's gotta be more than a hitbox issue.

[Doopliss]

Normal tanden works exactly as a grab. EX tanden works like an attack-grab with infinite juggle potential.

[error1]

Just checking maj, but do you know what happens when you trade with a soul throw?

[Maj]

Haven't tested it but it's probably impossible since it's a throw. Capcom games resolve throws before they resolve hits, so you can't trade with throws and you also can't combo throws with fireballs by landing them on the same frame.

[error1]

you just keep thinking in your box
http://www.filefront.com/15576977/throw%20trade.mkv

[Maj]

Hahaha nice, i totally forgot about that. I don't know why that works. Maybe they forgot to make her invincible after the grab? Maybe it's not even a true throw. Judging by Akuma's reaction, maybe they had to rig that move up as an exception.

[Doopliss]

Yes, I saw this before. Don't really know why it works. Try doing the same with Cammys air hooligan grab?

[Pokey86]

Doesn't rose stay static during a soul throw? allowing the Fireball to connect... I'd imagine with Cammy's air throw she'd just blow through it.

IS it because of the trade? I mean if you reflect one of Goukens fireballs (Let him get hit) then FADC forward for a soul throw... would it hit?

Or is the projectile hitting her after the throw is initiated?

[Doopliss]

Probably same frame. Soul throw can't connect during hit stun. Not even a reflected Gouken fireball.

[Doopliss]

This is the best TACV video yet imo, great work.

[Xenozip.]

Rose Rouge.

Of course you know the first thing I thought was "okay now do five!"

[Maj]

Haha it's probably not optimized but i doubt you can get five. Maybe she can land a jump-in after four, but she wouldn't get much out of it. I tried F+HK but she was out of range. I'm sure there's something extra she can do but it took like 20 tries to get the setup working once, so even the slightest adjustments were extremely time-consuming. This it the kind of thing you need save states for.

Btw i'm pretty sure i was right about Soul Throw connecting then air FB interrupting it, because i haven't been able to trade directly with any of Akuma's air normals. The air FB trade works relatively easily/consistently, but seems useless. Even if she does Quick Stand, Akuma's already hit the ground before she can do anything.

Also tried with Cammy's Hooligan and her regular air throw. Neither worked, but it's hard to be sure with Hooligan because she moves so fast. My guess is still that they simply forgot to turn Rose invincible upon connecting Soul Throw.