SF4 Biweekly TACV Series

[Maj]

Yeah, there's even a combo at 3:11 which uses six bars for three FADCs. I didn't notice it until yesterday because it's masked by the quick editing and missing super meters. Things like this need disclaimers. When will people learn that hiding them only makes it worse? I bet he disabled comments and ratings cuz he was getting a ton of negative comments about this stuff. Two simple annotations would have totally solved these problems.

[Pokey86]

I can understand some negative stuff for the Triple FADC, but really, unless people know the general stun levels of particular attacks, aswell as the scaling effects. I doubt he'd get negative feedback for the stun manipulation.

imo if you have a combo that doesn't start at minimal stun it's kind of dissapointing, unless it's stated. I know i wouldn't do it. But i don't think there is a set standard for it.

It does leave an awkward level of doubt though, i mean if he's petty enough to mask a triple FADC, then for all we know the video couldbe tool assisted. But probably not. That article you wrote makes very stringent points, that clearly come to light in this kind of thin Still i doubt there was any sinister intentions behind his actions, even i've done a triple FADC combo without actually realising it.

[Maj]

Yeah the triple FADC thing was probably an honest mistake and i don't think he was explicitly trying to hide the fact that his combo doesn't dizzy Sagat all the way from zero. Honestly i'm not trying to blame him for doing something wrong. I know him from way back when he first started making CvS2 vids and he's a good guy.

I just think he would have been better off if he'd handled the situation with a couple of simple annotations rather than shutting down all comments. Cuz even if he hadn't noticed the triple FADC, i'm sure someone must have pointed it out. I've seen u2b videos where someone accidentally uses too much meter and as long as they apologize for it in an annotation and as long as rest of the video is good, nobody seems to mind.

Anyway he probably figured that the Sagat stun thing would be obvious to anyone who played Cammy. He's certainly not the first person to use half-stun combos so that's not a huge problem in and of itself. Personally the only thing that bothers me is how hard it is to watch combo videos with all the meters disabled. It just takes a lot more work on the viewer's part to figure out what happened.

[Pokey86]

Don't they do it for visual clarity? I mean personally i like metre & health bars visible, but sometimes in a combo video i'd want to see the exact damage/stun a particular combo does. But of course you'd rarely get a combo video with the attack status displayed, even i don't turn it on.

Preference i guess, i'd imagine no bars or anything else on screen makes it more watchable perhaps likeably to a more casual crowd.There's a few things he & others can do that i'd love to do, like save states. I'd kill for save states

[Maj]

I don't know, maybe he thinks it looks more stylish. Sometimes i do think about including Attack Data in my videos but it just looks so ugly. And that box is so big, it always covers up the characters, especially during ultras. Plus then i'd be stuck on that ghetto Training Mode stage.

But yeah, the worst thing about turning off the GUI is that you can no longer tell if a combo connected. So you can just practice the combo a bunch of times in Training Mode then record it in Versus Mode in one try without even being sure that all the one-frame links worked. As long as all the moves come out, it looks okay. That's not cool.

Anyway how do you know he uses save states? I've never heard of save states in SF4.

[Pokey86]

How else do they do flashy finish combos? Or standard Super Meter combos. (without Refill or infinite)

Surely they don't whittle the characters health down to the exact amount everytime they fuck up.

Unless they manipulate health bars etc.

I'm just presuming though, perhaps they do.

[error1]

How else do they do flashy finish combos? Or standard Super Meter combos. (without Refill or infinite)

Surely they don't whittle the characters health down to the exact amount everytime they fuck up.

They do. The software to do it otherwise in unfeasible, easier to write a script that will put you where you need to be from the start of the round then to make your own virtual machine.

With all the new ssf4 info, Maj you should do a five things I'd like to try article for it.

[jchensor]

What's interesting (aka goddamn lame) is that her regular Cannon Spike only juggles if it connects early. That whole upward part doesn't juggle at all. At least the EX version does maintain its juggle potential but of course that takes her super out of the question.

God, welcome to my world of crappy Cammy Combos.

Just as an FYI, the first hit of the EX Cannon Spike DOESN'T JUGGLE. ONLY the leg extended part does. So the EX has the opposite Juggle abilities that the regular cannon Spike does. I've tried to find Combos using this to high heaven and have failed. On top of all that:

- Cammy only has three moves that Juggle: Cannon Spike, Super, and Ultra.
- Dive Kick air-to-air is not a Knock Down.
- You cannot Combo into most of her Special Moves.
- You cannot Combo into a Level 2 Focus.

So yeah, she kinda sucks. You can do Stand Close Strong FADC into Low Jab or Short. That actually works, but it's one-frame I believe. Actually, a LOT of characters can do this, only off of Close Standing Strong (Ryu and Fei can do it. This info all given to me by Justin Wong). She also has some interesting links, like Stand Strong, Crouch Fierce, Low Forward XX Super on a Crouching Chun, but that's about it.

She's got some fun Dash combos. Anti-Air level 3 Focus Attack, dash twice, Cannon Spike FADC Dash Twice, Cannon Spike FADC Dash back into Ultra (Justin Wong also showed me that one).

And DJB-13's Video was chastised by the Cammy Forums on SRK already. He disabled a lot of comments because we started nitpicking it to death. He does combos where he does Low Short into Stand Short into Drill, which is impossible. You cannot link a Combo off of Low Short at all. If you don't Buffer or Chain Low Short, you are not Comboing. So he has a lot of illegal Combos in there already.

But otherwise, Cammy is pretty lacking when it comes to Combos. I'll see if I can come up with anything else to help you, though. I'll keep wracking my brain on it.

- James

[Maj]

Surely they don't whittle the characters health down to the exact amount everytime they fuck up.

That's what i had to do for my Zangief post-KO grab combo. And i have to build meter manually for all the other Versus Mode combos. Like Ryu focuses, Rog does s.HP, Rog jumps up, Ryu's focus whiffs, repeat. Then i build Ryu's super meter and clean out Rog's meter. Takes a lot of time, which is why the clock is usually set to infinite.

She also has some interesting links, like Stand Strong, Crouch Fierce, Low Forward XX Super on a Crouching Chun, but that's about it.

She's got some fun Dash combos. Anti-Air level 3 Focus Attack, dash twice, Cannon Spike FADC Dash Twice, Cannon Spike FADC Dash back into Ultra (Justin Wong also showed me that one).

Okay, i'll try to find something against Chun. I don't want to jack your combo though. Maybe if i can turn it into a dizzy combo or something.

The dash thing was in Dj-B13's video in the middle somewhere against Fuerte. It looks cool but i hate having to include stuff i can do by hand. I'll try to find a way to do anti-air lvl3 Focus Attack xx dash forward, LK Cannon Spike, HK Cannon Spike xx super midscreen. I doubt it's possible but i think it would look awesome. It's kinda sad that she has nothing else she can do with that extra meter. I mean if you do LK Cannon Spike, HK Cannon Spike FADC, you'd have two bars left over that she couldn't do anything whatsoever with.

[onReload]

Can you do anything interesting with Hooligan (cancel with whiff throw) to Ultra in the middle of a juggle or something? just like the dash-under combos, it's pretty stylish, but I don't know if you have enough time.

[Maj]

Haha, have you seen how slow that thing is?

[onReload]

Haha, have you seen how slow that thing is?

Yeeeaaah I was just playing with it in training mode and it's not gonna do shit

Then I got bored and was trying (corner) LK Spike, FADC, HK Spike, FABDC, EX Spike...I know it's overmeter but I wanted to see if it would work. I don't believe it does.

One weird and useless thing: on Ryu at least, close HP xx HP Spin Knuckle goes right through him. There's a bunch of moves that cause complete crossups like this, I don't see much of a combo application for them but it's interesting nonetheless.

[Xenozip.]

Well, if she goes through him, maybe he can stick a poke through her from behind to let her start some backwards shit.

[jchensor]

Okay, i'll try to find something against Chun. I don't want to jack your combo though. Maybe if i can turn it into a dizzy combo or something.

Don't worry. Feel free to jack it, I don't mind.

I'll try to find a way to do anti-air lvl3 Focus Attack xx dash forward, LK Cannon Spike, HK Cannon Spike xx super midscreen. I doubt it's possible but i think it would look awesome. It's kinda sad that she has nothing else she can do with that extra meter. I mean if you do LK Cannon Spike, HK Cannon Spike FADC, you'd have two bars left over that she couldn't do anything whatsoever with.

So I tried LK Cannon Spike FADCb into EX Cannon Spike to hit them much higher up so I can try to land and Ultra in time.

The problem was that doing the Cannon Spike and hitting them higher made Cammy FLOAT DOWN longer, too! So even though the opponent drifts longer to the floor, so does Cammy, so you don't get much advantage off of it. There might some magical middle ground that's not too low nor not too high where it WILL work, but the Ultra is 10 frames startup already, so I'm not sure if it will.

With Xeno's idea, maybe you can get the Spin Knuckle to hit ONCE and FADC it. I'm not sure what kind of reel time the first hit gives, but maybe you can actually FADC it and land something that ISN'T a Jab or Short. 'Cause if, say, Stand Close Strong works, it'll at least be an INTERESTING start to the three link combo I listed against Chun. But even then, you could FADC it from the front, too, so I guess... if it worked, we'd know by now already.

And worse yet, she gets a Counter Ultra in SSFIV. Which means she doesn't even get anything NEW to play with in terms of Combos. *sigh* That stupid thing doesn't even work on projectiles, so you couldn't even Combo someone into Ultra and have a Fireball hit you to grab them. Why do they hate on Cammy when it comes to Combos????

- James

[Xenozip.]

And worse yet, she gets a Counter Ultra in SSFIV. Which means she doesn't even get anything NEW to play with in terms of Combos. *sigh* That stupid thing doesn't even work on projectiles, so you couldn't even Combo someone into Ultra and have a Fireball hit you to grab them. Why do they hate on Cammy when it comes to Combos????

- James

That's what it's sounding like, but that may or may not be the actual case. Rose is reportedly able to combo a Soul Throw off a HP-Reflect now so Capcom may be tweaking juggle properties on other moves as well. Hard to say.

[Maj]

Sorry, backwards stuff doesn't work in SF4.

You can do counterhit Spin Knuckle (one hit) FADC, close s.MP but then you lose the option to super.

[Xenozip.]

It’s like the game considers you completely harmless if you’re facing away from your opponent. Doesn’t make sense.

That can't be true, I've definitely walked into Rufus doing Ultra the wrong direction and his twirl kick hit me.

Maybe it's simply the case that the majority of attacks don't extend their hittable box any further than their hitbox (like most IaMP moves). But there must be some exception, I would think Dhalsim's limbs could get struck by Gen doing hands the wrong way.

[Maj]

Tried it, doesn't work. Tried Cammy's too. Come on guys, test this stuff.

The exceptions are the attacks themselves, like Hurricane Kick and Blanka Electricity and i guess Rufus' ultra kick going all the way around. Speaking of Hurricane Kick, last night i was trying to unlock some stuff so i was bully Sagatting my way through Survival Mode. I kara-canceled F+LK into HP Tiger Uppercut just as Akuma did Hurricane Kick and i went clear past him and still hit him. It killed him so the screen froze with Sagat way behind Akuma doing Tiger Uppercut the wrong way. I'm not exactly sure why that worked considering nothing else seems to work, but i'm guessing it was cuz Hurricane Kick was involved.

[Maj]

Damn, so this works against cornered Seth: j.HP, s.MP, c.HP, far s.MP xx LK Cannon Drill. It's 670 stun. If i could add Cannon Spike to the end, it would give me an extra 100 stun points and he'd be dizzy. But it looks totally impossible even though she's hella far away when she does LK drill.

The other sad thing is HK and EX Cannon Drills only hit once at the end of that combo. It works against several characters but i can't seem to find one who gets hit by the first hit of HK/EX Cannon Drill so i can FADC the damn thing.

edit: Nevermind, works on Fuerte of all characters. Almost works on Gouken too but s.MP doesn't combo unless you use counterhit c.HP and even though c.MK does combo, it leads to one-hit HK Cannon Drill instead of two-hit like s.MP gives you. This game is weird as fuck.

[Xenozip.]

Well here's what I want to test: Dhalsim c.LP behind a Rose far MK

How should I test it? Can't think of any scenario where that'd be possible. Though mainly my reasoning is to use a move with lower/upper body invulnerability (in this case Rose can hit Dhalsim but Dhalsim can't hit Rose, so if a backwards far MK his c.LP whiffs then it's proven).

[Maj]

Hm, so she can link c.HP into the first hit of HK Cannon Drill but it doesn't seem to reach if you put s.MP in front. Either way it would be nice to find something different, since i'm already going to have that link in the Fuerte combo. So i guess i'm looking for a way to land one of her light attacks meaty. Fuck, doesn't look possible cuz according to her frame data the only +6 candidate is far s.LP which obviously isn't gonna work.

Well, i've gotta have at least one mid-combo meaty link in this video. Maybe close s.LK to c.MP? I'd love to get c.LK to close s.MK but that's probably asking a bit much.

[Doopliss]

maybe you can find something out of c.HP x2 on wide characters that I didn't?

[Maj]

Sweet, she can't link counterhit regular divekick into another divekick either. Regular and EX versions have the same startup. EX just has one frame faster landing recovery and causes way more hit stun.

[Maj]

So this is kind of interesting. When i made that Abel vs Guile clip in Fun with SF4 vol.1, i claimed that the first fireball is rendered null when it passes through the far edge of the screen. Someone posted a comment challenging that notion so i told him to test it. I was hoping he would but i guess he wasn't up for it. He came up with an unnecessarily elaborate experiment and then convinced himself it was impossible to test.

Anyway today i finally got around to verifying it myself using a much simpler setup. Just make Viper jump over Rose's LP fireball, have Rose throw another one then FADC and mash dash, and have Viper superjump backwards two or three times until she lands in the middle of the first fireball. It passes harmlessly through her, so i guess that proves it.

However, the real reason i got around to testing it is because i had an idea for a double fireball interrupt where Rose dashing would cause the screen to leave the fireball behind so that she could throw another one, except ahead of it instead of behind it. Interestingly enough, this doesn't work. Somehow the game can distinguish between a fireball going offscreen behind the opponent and going offscreen in front of the opponent. Since the first fireball hitbox isn't nullified by dashing past it, you can't throw another one until the first one is dealt with.

Of course by "interesting" i mean lame as in "Lame follows Cammy like a voodoo curse!"

[Maj]

I don't think it's possible to dizzy off a divekick. This is the closest i could get: counterhit EX divekick, c.HP, s.MP xx HK Cannon Drill (one hit) FADC, c.LP, s.HP xx HK Cannon Spike FADC, HK Cannon Spike. 484 damage, 745 stun. Yup, that close. Cammyyyyy!

Oh btw, the weird close s.MP FADC link is reflected in the frame data because it has the same base hit stun value as Cannon Drill. I don't know if i'll be able to find a place for it in the video though. I'm trying to get this wrapped up by tonight so at least it'll be encoded and uploaded overnight.

[jchensor]

I was also trying REALLY hard to do Jump Roundhouse into EX TKCS. I put opponent on Counter Hit too. It looks like it gets SO CLOSE to comboing, but doesn't work. Of course, with a program pad, it's probably easier to try hitting on the VERY LAST POSSIBLE FRAME from your Jump and do the EX TKCS on the VERY first frame possible. And I'd also be able to test it with Forward Flip EX TKCS instead of Jumping back, not that it probably makes any difference.

I mean, for style, you might be able to do something that leads into the Crouch Fierce, DP link vs. Gief and then Dashing twice to go under Gief and Cannon Spiking from the other side, FADCb into Ultra, but I'll be damned if something similar hasn't already been done in every Cammy Combo Video.

I keep trying to think of something... anything, but Cammy really is very limited.

- James

[Doopliss]

If you look at my combo video, c.HP -> Cannon spike needs you to dash twice to even get close enough for the 2nd cannon spike.

[jchensor]

Wow, I think the result is actually really good, Maj! That vs. Sakura Combo is sooooo sexy. Hahaha. Nice distancing and aiming to get that Low Fierce to connect Meaty. You're confusing HELLA people on YouTube. I wonder how practical that trick actually ends up being? ^_^

But I think the overall result is really good. Good job, sir. Better than anything I would have come up with for Cammy!

- James

[jchensor]

Just wanted to add that the post K.O. Seth kill was brilliant, and I love how you use 3 meters when you only have 2 thanks to it never draining Meter. Hahaha.

Any chance you've already come up with a Combo Challenge yet? I've thought of one, there are three solutions I know of, but I'm not sure how hard it would be, 'cause it's really not extremely hard:

Perform a Combo with standard meter usage and, using NO DIZZIES, put four dashes in between the first and last hits of the combo. One of my solutions uses 5. The second one I can think of only has 4, but is really easy to come up with because crumpling from Focuses let you get away with a few Dashes. The last one also uses only 4. Again, it's actually a pretty easy challenge, but may result in varied submissions. I can post up my answers if you wanna see how complex they are.

- James

[Doopliss]

Just wanted to add that the post K.O. Seth kill was brilliant, and I love how you use 3 meters when you only have 2 thanks to it never draining Meter. Hahaha.

Any chance you've already come up with a Combo Challenge yet? I've thought of one, there are three solutions I know of, but I'm not sure how hard it would be, 'cause it's really not extremely hard:

Perform a Combo with standard meter usage and, using NO DIZZIES, put four dashes in between the first and last hits of the combo. One of my solutions uses 5. The second one I can think of only has 4, but is really easy to come up with because crumpling from Focuses let you get away with a few Dashes. The last one also uses only 4. Again, it's actually a pretty easy challenge, but may result in varied submissions. I can post up my answers if you wanna see how complex they are.

- James

Wouldn't it be as simple as FA, double dash, cannon spike, FADC, double dash, FADC, dash, ultra?