SF4 Combo Engine Investigation

[onReload]

http://www.filefront.com/15019897/long- ... super.mkv/
this is what I was talking about before with fei longs ultra, been meaning to put it in a combo

You can do the same thing with Rufus, if the second hit of his Super connects, the opponent is in a weird vulnerable state, and you're free to connect an Ultra (if you're interrupted). It also has room for creativity as I think you can have Rufus be interrupted on either side (he jumps over the opponent before the 3rd hit.)

[Xenozip.]

At least I can't get this to work, I guess they removed the possibility for some reason. Try EX reflect on Ryus EX hadouken, that should work if anything.

Btw, did you guys know that you can do s.HK -> c/s.LP with Abel on crouching opponents?

I would think it's possible to FADC a LP Spark or something then reflect it before the reflect hits the opponent. Perhaps the MP reflect connects with the fireball then trades with a poke or something? It may have to be a simultaneous hit though, that could be problematic finding a setup. I find it odd that it's possible with absorb but not reflect.

Also Rose's f+HK is +3F on hit but leaves her too far away to follow up with c.LP, but it would be interesting if she could hit with it backwards then connect a c.LP afterwards (allowing LK-Spiral into super). Maybe a teleport setup or something.

[error1]

if it hits meaty you should be able to link into any of roses lps or lks. Also she can link off a meaty slide. It also looks like she can link a Close hk from a meaty c.lk. From there the best she can do is just combo into a special or super. Dhalsim has better links then that.

[Xenozip.]

Yeah, not her close HK. I mean her toward+HK (Soul Piede) is what puts you outside of c.LP range even if it hits meaty, and you're actually just barely inside c.LP range even when it whiffs because the recoil moves her backwards (so the recoil plus the knockback from a hit moves her really far away). I think the only way to combo after the piede normally is if it hit backwards.

And yeah pretty much the entire cast has better links and combos than Rose... no surprise she's bottom tier.

Also I thought fighting games weren't supposed to be random, but for some reason her close HP "randomly" causes a different hit-reel on standing Ryu which means normally close HP combos into qcb-HP, but when it gets that different hit-reel it does not combo.

[edit]: Well because I'm weird I made this post.

[error1]

I was talking about her toward+HK it should give +4 if meaty.

Also I thought fighting games weren't supposed to be random, but for some reason her close HP "randomly" causes a different hit-reel on standing Ryu which means normally close HP combos into qcb-HP, but when it gets that different hit-reel it does not combo.

It's not random.
in street fighter 4 depending on the distance you are from them your opponents will do different hit stun

[Maj]

Well because I'm weird I made this post.

What does it mean?

[Xenozip.]

I was talking about her toward+HK it should give +4 if meaty.
It's not random.
in street fighter 4 depending on the distance you are from them your opponents will do different hit stun

Oh man, c.MP was whiffing after the f+HK so I thought it was out of range, but I forgot hittable boxes are so much wider during hitstun. Yeah meaty f+HK c.MP works. And of course you can only combo qcf+2K or super after the c.MP. Here I was trying to think of some elaborate setup where the opponent gets behind her so that she'd be point blank and able to link c.LP into qcf+LK, bleh.

Also, I guess varying hitstun poses is kinda cool. At least it's not random. If it was that'd be awful.

What does it mean?

Basic combo damage values. Damage before super - damage after super.

[Maj]

It's not random but sometimes it's so sensetive that it may as well be.

Also there are definitely some attacks that cause way too much pushback because of the way they expand. Have you tried hitting someone with Rufus' low fierce at point blank range? Comedy. Too bad he doesn't have a fireball cuz i'd make a whole video of pushing people backwards into it.

[Siedler Pompiani]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOwE7d0L1v0
how is it possible?

[Maj]

That's funny. Looks pretty real, but it's fake. Look at the fire from the Revenge Gauge in the bottom left. It breaks rhythm when the ultra connects. That's where they edited together two clips. The ultra clip was probably lvl2 Focus Attack followed by ultra so it shows up as 4 hits on the counter.

Also the damage reduction goes down to 70% when the ultra connects. That only happens when you combo ultra after a Focus Attack. If he had actually gotten ultra to connect after Lariat, it would've been at 80%.

It's pretty cool that PPP Lariat does the same damage as lvl2 Focus Attack though.

[Raine]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4n2wH7Xli8 - Impressive execution, you can hear the stick in the background.

Not sure if people are already aware of this or not? Anyways it's a video showing an Akuma combo that exploits Chun's crouching hitbox which causes Akuma's fireball to hit really meaty, allowing enough time to do something like s.HP, qcf+LP, walk forward, s.HP etc. I tested if Ryu and Ken could do something similar but it seems their fireballs are larger in someway so you don't get the same effect.

I'm gonna try and make combo using this technique, highlighting the fact it allows Akuma enough time to FADC backwards and still continue the combo (this seems pretty uncommon since backdashes are generally slow).

EDIT: I tested with a few other characters but couldn't really find anything useful. Using Rose, s.HP, hcf+PP causes the EX Soul Spark to whiff completely over her head haha. s.HP, hcf+LP hits a bit later than it normally does, but it doesn't seem to link into anything (however you can do a lvl. 2 focus from this, which I don't think is possible against most characters from the same setup). Seth and Guile's cancellable heavy attacks all force standing animation, so it doesn't seem like they can get benefit from this either. Ken actually can exploit this, using s.HK (forgot to test this before) into qcf+P allowing an easy link into c.MK, qcf+P again. This should provide a solution to that 4+ hadouken Ken challenge posted a while back, which I'm trying to make now (slow due to scripting inconsistencies but I'm making progress).

[error1]

I think this is as good a ken can do
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aRv-b0vnd8
dan, gouken, rose, and guile can link from a fireball like this

[Xenozip.]

Well because I'm weird I made this post.

What does it mean?

On reflection, it means I suck at math.

[error1]

alright maj, finally here is guile's hsk into ultra
http://www.filefront.com/15197409/hsk-ultra.mkv/
the frame data says you should be able to link a lp sonic boom into a lp sonic boom using the charge trick

[Maj]

Haha nice. Looks dope.

You can do a lot more than Sonic Boom to Sonic Boom though. Think about it, SF4 lets you prebuffer normal move cancels. Against someone with a crappy HP super (like Rufus), you should be able to do s.HP xx Sonic Boom, Sonic Boom like charge DB, neutral HP, wait 1 frame, F+LP, charge DB, superfreeze, s.HP connects and autocancels into Sonic Boom.

Hell, if you can find a super that reaches forward enough, you migh be able to jump behind Guile so that there's no pushback at all. But it's not much of a benefit because you'd still get sucked out of the corner. It's too bad Guile doesn't have a cancelable kick cuz you do even crazier stuff like step forward, s.LK xx Sonic Boom after the superfreeze.

[error1]

seems like guile has a lot of charge tricks he can use with superfreeze
like
s.HP xx Sonic Boom -> ultra
should work
also
Balrog Overhead Punch -> ultra

[Maj]

The problem with Balrog is that everything can already be done without superfreeze. From full screen away, he can link dash overhead into LP dash punch without any tricks or even needing tool-assistance. Same with ultra, i'd imagine.

Also he can link counterhit/meaty HK dash upper, s.LP xx LP dash punch xx super from full screen without superfreeze. So it's actually a challenge finding a use for superfreeze with him.

[Xenozip.]

I read that you can't partition with normal charge moves but characters with charge Ultras can at least charge->dash->Ultra. Not sure if it works with supers or not. But most obvious example would be Chun EX SBK dash Ultra, I'm fairly certain she couldn't dash kikkoken.

[Doopliss]

That's because you can't delay the kikouken input for as long as you can delay the Super/ultra input.

[Doopliss]

I just found a way to combo into Hondas ultra, this is going straight to my next vid XD

[onReload]

I just found a way to combo into Hondas ultra, this is going straight to my next vid XD

It's not off AA Sumo Smash is it? I did that by accident, the Hard Trial wants you to use his super off an AA Sumo Smash but I misinterpreted it and comboed the ultra.

[Doopliss]

EX Sumo smash D: XD You can do it with the non-exed as well? I guess there's no difference between them. Gotta try some other things now XD

Ok, found some things, dunno if I did it the same way you did, but can I use the sumo smash -> ultra in my video? You will be mentioned of course.

[SlimX]

Sumo smash -> ultra is pretty old, I'm afraid. I've seen it in a couple videos already. I've even seen anti-air HHS one hit, juggle ultra in an actual match video. Also, Streak made a video of meaty counter hit close standing fierce, link ultra.

[Doopliss]

I do LK sumo smash -> Ultra/super/EX headbutt/EX sumo smash (last one works mid-screen) on Dhalsim, after a backthrow towards the corner or after a c.HK.

I just got super trade to ultra on video

[onReload]

I do LK sumo smash -> Ultra/super/EX headbutt/EX sumo smash (last one works mid-screen) on Dhalsim, after a backthrow towards the corner or after a c.HK.

I just got super trade to ultra on video

I hadn't tried playing with EX Sumo Smash, I'm sure you can make it a bigger juggle that way, but as SlimX said, it's been done (and I certainly wasn't the first to think of it, so don't worry about me)...the super trade to ultra would be interesting, how do you do it? do you do his super from far away so you have time to charge or do you trade with a super/ultra hit so you can charge during the freeze?

[Doopliss]

I do if from full screen and trade with Sims j.LP.

I'll still mention you for giving me the idea XD Most of the stuff in my vid have probably been discovered by someone else befor me anyways, at least the things that can be a little more useful.

Juggling from EX sumo smash is hard, and I think it's character specific too, as you have to avoid connecting the second hit of it to do anything.

[onReload]

I do if from full screen and trade with Sims j.LP.

I'll still mention you for giving me the idea XD Most of the stuff in my vid have probably been discovered by someone else befor me anyways, at least the things that can be a little more useful.

Juggling from EX sumo smash is hard, and I think it's character specific too, as you have to avoid connecting the second hit of it to do anything.

That's cool, I appreciate it...Gonna have to get my ass to make a video soon with the few I've been credited in.

And I'm all for seeing another super + ultra in combo. I'd like to see every character have that possibility, but that's not super likely...maybe if there's some way to manipulate Seth's weird post-dizzy juggle (that right now only seems to happen with Dhalsims Yoga Fire xx Yoga Inferno).

[Doopliss]

maybe if there's some way to manipulate Seth's weird post-dizzy juggle (that right now only seems to happen with Dhalsims Yoga Fire xx Yoga Inferno).

It's yoga fire xx yoga inferno that causes the post dizzy juggle, not Seth himself. It works just as well on Ryu. I only used Seth because he has the lowest stun bar. Can't juggle with yoga infero post-stun when it's canceled from any other move, or if it's linked from yoga fire.

[Doopliss]

btw, didn't somebody here find a way to combo into Vegas ultra outside of FA? How did you do that?

[Xenozip.]

It was like df+HK against Dhalsim j.LP into Ultra, nothing special.

Also, the first hit of Dan's EX Dankuu kyaku sends the opponent flying really high vertically, seems really amusing how high and also directly vertically while midscreen. Maybe could do something with that.