Everything YouTube

Doopliss · Post by **Doopliss** » Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:16 pm

But it's such a... fighting gamer thing to say XD

Btw, I uploaded a response for your Dhalsim challenge.

error1 · Post by **error1** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:28 am

Looks like maj set up a french u2b account
http://www.youtube.com/user/EsportsDojo

Xenozip. · Post by **Xenozip.** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:02 pm

LOL, that profile links to QuebecSF.com

And they have another account by the same name with the same videos http://www.youtube.com/user/QUEBECSTREETFIGHTER

Maj · Post by **Maj** » Thu Dec 10, 2009 2:51 pm

I don't even know what the hell i'm supposed to do about something that blatant, aside from be sad when their videos come up before mine in search rankings. Whatever, i'll deal with it when/if their copies start getting thousands of views.

Though i wonder if their versions are underrated because everyone knows they're stolen, or if my versions are overrated because everyone secretly loves CvSPro.

Maj · Post by **Maj** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 5:53 am

Alright so as of this moment, every video on my channel has at least a thousand views. Someone randomly mentioned that they'd heard 1k/video was one of the requirements of u2b partnership but i doubt that very much. Anyway if they were right then i'm still waiting (and slowly running out of benchmarks).

error1 · Post by **error1** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:05 am

that's defiantly not a requirement.
This "You own or have express permission to use and monetize all audio and video content that you upload -- no exceptions." is probably the reason, they don't trust that you have written permission to make money off of all the songs on your channel.

ShinjiGohan · Post by **ShinjiGohan** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:44 pm

but if your not a partner then they don't mind making money off of the songs that you have in your videos anyway. But if you might make some money off of it then heaven forbid.

Xenozip. · Post by **Xenozip.** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:13 pm

Yeah but that's just how the law works. When you sign up for an account you agree to their ToS which states you're claiming copyright and liability for copyrighted material you upload. They are not responsible for what you do with their service, you are responsible. It's like a company that sells guns not being responsible with what you do with their guns. So if one of those special interest groups that own the songs wanted to sue they would have to sue the user, but they won't do that because there's no money there, it would cost more than it would earn to burn a couple small fry.

But what they did was go out of their way to create a peak-file scanner to automatically locate songs that were copyrighted so that they can slap advertisements on them. Originally they muted some and slapped advertisements on others, the reason was because of negotiations with the copyright owners.

However, by becoming a partner and them giving you money that means they become liable and the copyright owners can sue them. They don't want that to happen so they have to be extremely cautious in order to avoid getting sued.

It's not like they are pointing a big fat finger and laughing all the while money flows. It's just that there's no way for them to manually moderate the thousands and thousands of videos, controlling content that may or may not actually be yours -- even if you say it is.

If you flip a bitch and think about it like you being in their shoes, how would you know whether or not a video that I uploaded on Monday along with the thousands of other videos uploaded that day contained any form of copyrighted material or not, do you know every song ever created? And it's not just audio they are worried about, there is no clear cut law on showcasing videogames either. They want partners but they don't want to sign some one up and and pay them and then "oops lawsuit". Sure there's money there but there's also no way that site could even function unless they did it exactly as they have been doing it.

error1 · Post by **error1** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:26 pm

there are plenty game review shows and lets play type channels that are partners.
this guy is a partner so the bar can't be to high http://www.youtube.com/user/HedgeSnes#p ... 34l84SclxM

Xenozip. · Post by **Xenozip.** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:33 pm

Yeah but like Maj found before it's just a review of the game so that's why it's OK by them.

"simply showing a user playing a video game" isn't what they want.

onReload · Post by **onReload** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:38 pm

Xenozip. wrote:Yeah but that's just how the law works. When you sign up for an account you agree to their ToS which states you're claiming copyright and liability for copyrighted material you upload. They are not responsible for what you do with their service, you are responsible. It's like a company that sells guns not being responsible with what you do with their guns. So if one of those special interest groups that own the songs wanted to sue they would have to sue the user, but they won't do that because there's no money there, it would cost more than it would earn to burn a couple small fry.

But what they did was go out of their way to create a peak-file scanner to automatically locate songs that were copyrighted so that they can slap advertisements on them. Originally they muted some and slapped advertisements on others, the reason was because of negotiations with the copyright owners.

However, by becoming a partner and them giving you money that means they become liable and the copyright owners can sue them. They don't want that to happen so they have to be extremely cautious in order to avoid getting sued.

It's not like they are pointing a big fat finger and laughing all the while money flows. It's just that there's no way for them to manually moderate the thousands and thousands of videos, controlling content that may or may not actually be yours -- even if you say it is.

Yeah, and to me (specifically speaking on audio matters) the asshole is the fact that the law was/is lazily created. If whoever manages ELO saw the 09'er video, they might be happy that anybody under 30 actually hears one of their songs, and it's only being used as a backing track for a fighting game, so unless ELO as a band objects to the idea of fighting games, nobody is being wronged...and to me, this kind of thing is so common (a generally fine and dandy usage of the IP), that it's an argument against copyright laws. Back on topic: like you said, YouTube is a site with thousands and thousands of videos that is trying to stay that big by making money appropriately and not stepping on anybody's toes.

The key to understanding how to use the internet (or maybe anything) is understanding how to keep something properly overlooked - in these cases it might mean using another video website (which I'm sure people turned to when wanting to see the 09'er video start to finish). Any other video sharing website is smaller than youtube, which means it's not in cahoots or shaking hands and making agreements, so it's not being looked at too carefully, so you can get away with stuff that's frowned on by copyright laws.

So there's the trade - you can host all your videos on a different site in any manner you like (unless millions of people pour in and someone wants to be an asshole by reporting you to some media group for song usage) and at the same time, host vids that you know (or if you want to dare, hope) aren't in any way illegal on a much bigger site like YouTube. As the above stated, there aren't laws *yet* on videogames, so it's possible for you to keep taking the chance. It's very healthy for you to be pointing all your videos towards your site. Your YouTube viewcount may in fact just have something to do with something technical, like the search tags or something. I stopped keeping up with computing technology years ago.

Ranting and refusing to proofread as usual
-me

Xenozip. · Post by **Xenozip.** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:54 pm

But my point is youtube is offering to pay you. You get money from them. Are you really getting some one to pay you for content on some other video site? If you do then they are still in the same boat as youtube as being legally responsible and so they are the ones sticking their neck out. This is the only reason youtube has these crazy rules, they don't want to stick their neck out out unless they are sure it won't backfire, otherwise it's your responsibility and not theirs. It does mostly have to do with music, but also in regards to video games I can see their logic in it very easily. As I said before, if I watched a "let's play" of 90% of RPGs like the entire Final Fantasy series I'd have zero reason to play them, because I got the exact same experience watching it that I would have playing it, and so basically the "product" they sold was the "experience" which was copied illegally. Totally different ballpark from fighting game combo videos, but they don't know that and we can't expect them to higher staff and lawyers to check everyone one of the thousands of videos that are potentially risks.

onReload · Post by **onReload** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:16 am

Xenozip. wrote:But my point is youtube is offering to pay you. You get money from them. Are you really getting some one to pay you for content on some other video site? If you do then they are still in the same boat as youtube as being legally responsible and so they are the ones sticking their neck out. This is the only reason youtube has these crazy rules, they don't want to stick their neck out out unless they are sure it won't backfire, otherwise it's your responsibility and not theirs. It does mostly have to do with music, but also in regards to video games I can see their logic in it very easily. As I said before, if I watched a "let's play" of 90% of RPGs like the entire Final Fantasy series I'd have zero reason to play them, because I got the exact same experience watching it that I would have playing it, and so basically the "product" they sold was the "experience" which was copied illegally. Totally different ballpark from fighting game combo videos, but they don't know that and we can't expect them to higher staff and lawyers to check everyone one of the thousands of videos that are potentially risks.

Oh no, I wasn't looking at it from a monetary standpoint (at least, nothing gained monetarily from YouTube, no)...and I mean YouTube has those crazy rules so you can gain money but also don't forget that they want your videos to help them gain money, I don't see it too much as them sticking their necks out; in the end, they profit. My point on using other sites was that you can gain attention from YouTube and its exposure possibilities, but host the stuff they might frown upon on a different, less mass-watched site.

..and yeah I mean I can't use anecdotal evidence to fight that rule on videogaming at all (usually I go out and get the game upon watching a little bit and being interested enough), because no matter how you slice it, they're still going to see LPs and such as a type of free distribution - I don't agree, but I can see an argument to be made there, and yeah they're not about to hire people (whose professions don't exist yet) to discern game type from game type and then video type to video type. The partnerships are made with programs (they detect an amount of views or subs or whatever) and so are the anti-piracy moves.

Basically I agree with you, that you have to be legit in their eyes, unless you could find a direct way to speak with lawmakers and show them a fighting game and explain the fighting game experience and then compare/contrast that with a combo exhibition, and even then, just hope that they understand. So that's all a very long shot.

Maj · Post by **Maj** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:29 am

Xenozip. wrote:So if one of those special interest groups that own the songs wanted to sue they would have to sue the user, but they won't do that because there's no money there, it would cost more than it would earn to burn a couple small fry.

Your argument seems a little backwards. If u2b was paying me money, then the special interest groups would try to sue me. How does that hurt u2b? Since u2b goes around planting ads on videos with copyrighted music without sharing that money with the uploader, that puts the lawsuit bullseye squarely on u2b, not the user. If someone files a lawsuit, there's no fucking way any judge is going to make the user pay all the damages while letting u2b off the hook. "Technical difficulty" only figures into u2b's profit margin, not the law.

I mean, if you're claiming that u2b's policy is to leverage the undesirability of suing small fries to make money by proxy, then giving us revenue would strengthen their position because it would increase our share of responsibility.

My whole point is, gaming videos are a big part of u2b and they're only going to get bigger. I understand that the relevant copyright laws are murky, but i don't understand why they're playing at this ambuguous bullshit. If it was me in charge, i'd issue a wave of partnerships to gaming video creators, get sued, fight the legal battle to decide whether gaming vids are legal once and for all, then either incorporate all of them into u2b's partnership sceme or ban them all. What's the point of floating in attrition limbo? File storage, bandwidth, and maintenance are costing them money every minute of every day.

onReload · Post by **onReload** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:40 am

Maj wrote:My whole point is, gaming videos are a big part of u2b and they're only going to get bigger. I understand that the relevant copyright laws are murky, but i don't understand why they're playing at this ambuguous bullshit.

I think I see your point here. So then what do we do? Should we start hitting them up for answers? I know you were ignored when asking about your own partnership, but I mean in general.

Maj · Post by **Maj** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:50 am

I don't know, if you've got an ideas about how to reach them, i'm open to anything. Does anyone here live near youtube's or google's offices?

Actually i asked s-kill about getting permission from Capcom. He said it's doubtful but that he would try to help me if i could find out what exactly they need. So i accepted the revenue sharing invitation they sent for the Ken TACV on November 25th, mentioning that i could get permission from Capcom's community manager if i knew what was required. Been waiting for a response ever since. It's taking so long, i had to apologize to Seth for not getting back to him.

How lame is that?

This might turn into one of those things where i have to quit until they finally figure out what they're doing and send us partnership invitations on their own. It's starting to seem like that could take a year or three. Which probably means i'd be coming back to Tekken 8. I bet Kazuya will still be trying to kill Heihachi.

Dammit · Post by **Dammit** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:01 pm

Maj, when you announce new youtube videos on the front page, are you also putting up the higher quality originals somewhere?

Maj · Post by **Maj** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:45 pm

Nope, the download bandwidth would destroy my website in the SF4-world we live in. Plus if i post the source vids anywhere, guaranteed some random goons will upload it to their channels. At least this way their versions are blurrier than mine.

Plus if i was gonna release the downloadable versions then i'd have to re-encode them at a reasonable bitrate and worry more about details which honestly i don't have time for at this point. The one cool thing about u2b is that the quality sucks anyway so i never bother rewatching every video 50 times and rerendering it 20 times before i'm happy with every little thing.

But maybe once i'm done with this TACV series, i'll go back and put in the time to release downloadable versions. Till then, if you want a local copy on your computer, you always download it through someplace like this.

In other news, last night i sent eleven notices to people who had uploaded my Evo Ryu vid to their channels asking them to take it down or at least make it private. So far one person has been nice enough to comply. I guess now's a good time to ask about u2b's warning system, since i'm sure at least one of these people will be stubborn and i'll have to ask u2b admins to take it down and they'll try to retaliate by messing with my account. If someone reports your account out of spite, how hard is it to get that situation resolved?

Doopliss · Post by **Doopliss** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 9:27 pm

I have problems rendering my videos without destroying the quality, do you guys use some kind of software? And what format do you upload your videos in to youtube? I'm uploading a combo video right now, there you will be able to see the best I can come up with.

Maj · Post by **Maj** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 10:32 pm

I do all my editing in AfterEffects 5.5 and export it as an uncompressed file then encode it before uploading. For Ryu and Gief/Fuerte, i encoded in WMV9 but then starting with Ken i switched over to x264. The quality and sharpness improved, plus there was a weird problem with WMV where u2b would skip over the end of the video as soon as the picture became still or completely black. I'm guessing they're just being haters towards microsoft products because that problem doesn't exist with x264 MP4 uploads.

Doopliss · Post by **Doopliss** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 10:35 pm

Ok, I will check those out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9RaHynhn2o Here's my combo video, it's private atm, but I will make it public when it's done processing.

Maj · Post by **Maj** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:59 am

The QuebecSF guy was cool. I asked him to take down his version of the Evo Ryu vid and he removed it along with all of his copies of my TACVs from both the QUEBECSTREETFIGHTER channel and the EsportsDojo channel.

He said he had re-uploaded them to use the YT custom player on his main page and didn't know we could +Favorites our own videos. I'm not sure what that means but i guess he trying to set up a playlist or something? Anyway it's all resolved now so we're cool.

Maj · Post by **Maj** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:38 pm

I hate how many different areas of u2b are flash links that can't be Ctrl+Clicked to open up in a new tab. Even their logo in the top left. If you're writing a comment and you need to check something, don't click that because it'll load in the current page and you'll lose whatever you'd written in a text box.

When you're in channels, you can't Ctrl+Click the title of a video. Even that's a flash link. But you can Ctrl+Click the "View comments, related videos, and more" link. The same is true for copying link URLs.

Xenozip. · Post by **Xenozip.** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:46 pm

Weird, I can middle click vid titles on user pages, but then I use flash-blocker so maybe they give you a different format if they detect that you don't have flash.

Maj · Post by **Maj** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:24 am

Dammit linked to this kysg Chun video cuz we were talking about backwards attacks so i went to look for a version without ads (cuz it's obviously not kysg's channel). And strangely enough, they all have the same generic ads:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLhxnD2QkUQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Swz1BCcbhpI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IomPVOJRZTY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGH6-jl233Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTebeb7i9s4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9F5owFwrOU

Every last one of 'em. And the weird thing is, it's not trying to sell you the song like usual. In fact there's no amazon/itunes download link for the track anywhere. What gives?

SlimX · Post by **SlimX** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:29 am

What ads?

Maj · Post by **Maj** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:42 am

Firefox lets you block u2b ads too? Man ... how are google and mozilla not at war?

Xenozip. · Post by **Xenozip.** » Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:12 am

Adblock, flashblock, and noscript were made for them, not by them.

Maj · Post by **Maj** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:21 pm

What would you guys do in this situation? Someone submitted this video as a video response to my Ryu TACV. I thought about turning him down and then writing him something like "Sorry dude, but there's nothing new in this video." Which would probably get me in way more trouble than it's worth, even though personally i'd rather have someone tell me what's wrong up front than try to play it off with politeness.

Then i thought about how much work went into his video, cuz i've done damage testing too and it takes forever. Now i'm inclined to accept it, but the flipside is that anyone who gets to his video through mine is probably gonna be a jerk and rate it less than 5 stars. I mean, if i can't even get away with making a less-than-stellar Rufus/Viper TACV, this guy's sure as hell not escaping the misguided wrath of the internets.

So ... thoughts?

Xenozip. · Post by **Xenozip.** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:31 pm

I'd accept it. The wrath of the internets is his business. He's a big boy.

What doesn't kill em will make em stronger.

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