SF4 Biweekly TACV Series

[onReload]

If we're really opening the world of Console Characters, you're all forgetting about Gen.

Two styles, weird launchers and attack properties, etc...Might even be too much for a -1:00 video (en mi opinion anyway). I was talking about how it would be cool to see how many style changes (with attacks in between of course, e.g. a mantis move comboed into a crane move, comboed into a mantis move, etc....not just mashing PPP, KKK, PPP) could be put in one combo...I don't think most of us would see the differences until it was transcribed, since you can conceal the stance changes, but it would be amazing once you figure out how hard it is.

[Xenozip.]

Yeah combos like that exist in SFA3 and SFA2, but it might prove to be a lot more interesting in SF4.

[Maj]

I won't even bother with a list this time. If someone picks a boring character, i'll supplement them with another and do a split vid.

Also apparently i have a fan in France.

[onReload]

Jesus, has anybody seen this yet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWR9gGDr6zc

There's that Gadouken frame advantage stuff people were talking about...

[Doopliss]

Haven't seen that, very nice.

[error1]

so the training dummy get's some revenge. That thing with Zangief you mentioned before might work with a crouching honda, his crouching hit reaction is strange, when he gets hit his hitbox moves back. Also most of sims normals have poor frame advantage but are active a long time so links like meaty DF MK -> B Mk are required. The head drill juggles but good luck using it in a combo. I often see juggle with a jab after they land super in the corner, I wounder if it's possible to juggle with something else if you land it vs an airborn opponent.

[Dark_Chaotix]

I would like to see Gen if possible. I would think that there would be like 5mins worht of content of am i getting way ahead of myself?

[Maj]

Honestly i think you guys are overrating Gen. His combo potential is probably in the top half of the roster, but he's strictly melee. He doesn't have a fireball, which is kind of a big deal. He has a lot of different juggle setups but none of them are unrestricted so he gets one juggle setup per combo.

Really all he's got is a lot of moves. But when you think about it, every character has 30 normal moves (standing far, standing close, crouching, jumping forward, vertical jumping) and in combo videos you see maybe 10 of them, tops. Gen doesn't even have standing close normals. Yeah he's still got more ground normals than anyone else with 24, but only three of them have frame advantage of +3 or more.

Gen's above average but he doesn't crack Seth/Dhalsim/Gouken tier, imo.

[onReload]

Honestly i think you guys are overrating Gen. His combo potential is probably in the top half of the roster, but he's strictly melee. He doesn't have a fireball, which is kind of a big deal. He has a lot of different juggle setups but none of them are unrestricted so he gets one juggle setup per combo.

Really all he's got is a lot of moves. But when you think about it, every character has 30 normal moves (standing far, standing close, crouching, jumping forward, vertical jumping) and in combo videos you see maybe 10 of them, tops. Gen doesn't even have standing close normals. Yeah he's still got more ground normals than anyone else with 24, but only three of them have frame advantage of +3 or more.

Gen's above average but he doesn't crack Seth/Dhalsim/Gouken tier, imo.

Damn. Broke my heart, but you're right.

[Xenozip.]

It's the same as with SFA3. Gen has some novelty when you switch stances mid-combo and do things with his chains and chain cancels and touch-of-death super and such. But in the end he's just doing the same shit as everyone else, just differently.

It's like comparing Ryu c.LK c.LK -> super to a GG or MB combo, 50 hits starting with c.LK and ending with super in GG/MB is still just c.LK -> super. They achieved the same thing, there was just a lot of fluff in between c.LK and super.

What was interesting about SFA3 Gen (and in a way, about MB) was that Gen "broke the rules". His anti-air grab Ultra in SF4 was a rule-breaker in SFA3. Wherein, even when at the juggle limit or when the opponent was invulnerable the Jakouha could grab the opponent anyway. So while absolutely *nothing* else in the game could hit a normally-invulnerable(passed limit) character, Gen could super them. Something only he could do.

So with SF4 Gen, what I'd like to see is him doing things no one else can do.

Maj already used up a lot of interesting and unique setups that could be done with any character, but that was also necessary. Now those setups are done, what's left is things that aren't universal, things that only apply to one character and for one reason. The interesting stuff.

[Maj]

Yeah A3 Gen was dope. SF4 Gen would've been a lot more unique if he had that stored dizzy countdown super, or if his antiair super still broke the juggle rules. I've never recorded a combo that made me say "fuck ... that was cheap." like this one did.

But i hope you guys don't think i'm done coming up with combo setups. Believe me, we got a ways to go.

[onReload]

I'm not sure why they only used the Lvl. 1 incarnations for Supers...It'd be awesome to see Gen stomp on someone's head 3 times, but I guess to go along with the length of ST supers, they made them shorter...Oh well. I know a lot of people were looking for T. Hawk's 3x Storm Hammer, and what they got was a newer, weirder version of his Super...they also redid DeeJay's Super to have more variation, since in both cases, they were pretty boring looking in ST (so were the rest of the SF2 cast's, but I guess it would be blasphemy to alter the original 8 or 12)

Oh look, onRe rambling off-topic.

[Doopliss]

Bisons super is lvl.3. Ryus as well, iirc.

[Maj]

Alright i'm more or less done recording clips but i need sleep so i'll edit this thing tomorrow. Should be up sometime in the afternoon or early evening.

It turned out okay and i think it's a big step forward, but i still feel like i've barely scratched the surface with this character.

Found a couple of interesting things though. Turns out there's no such thing as simultaneous hits in SF4.

Sorry, i really need sleep ... to be continued.

[error1]

nice job, I guess you couldn't find anything to do with a delayed hitting ultra vs Zangief.
I'll save you some time later, as much as this setup looks like it should work with proper spacing it doesn't.
http://www.filefront.com/15047383/doesnt-work.mkv/

[Doopliss]

Tried that as well without any luck. Akuma air fireball is the way to go. Maybe Roses LP soul spark as well.

[Maj]

Haha that is really funny though. Were you aiming for a Seth combo or a Sim combo?

The Gief thing is actually used in the Rog combo, because that's what keeps Balrog from getting hit by the entire first ultra. But dude, there's so much more that can be done with this. I just didn't have time.

For one thing, the ultra doesn't even need to hit that soon. Rog can do TAP right in front of Sim and go clear through the ultra. Then you dash back into it or whatever, and Sim has another ultra stored to use whenever he wants.

The other advanced thing you can do is use DF+MK slides to control the timing of ultra hits. Like low fierce, ultra connects once, slide, ultra connects once, blah blah. I'm sure you can guess how long it'd take to record one of those combos though. Maybe i'll do it if ever come back to SF4, but i gotta deal with all the other characters first and then i know i'm gonna get owned up by SSF4 until the hype fades. Maybe i'll get lucky and someone else will explore this avenue so i won't have to.

What's funny is, in Training Mode if you do ultra, dash forward, ultra, dash forward, DF+HK, the slide will totally whiff through them. I think it's because the ultras are hitting constantly and they take priority since there's no simultaneous hits. It's pretty easy to do too. You just gotta find the timing for the ultras. I did it a bunch of times manually and never bothered to program it or record it.

[Raine]

Mmmm Dhalsim vid was very good, I'm quite surprised you managed to get so much damage in the Seth combo. 700+ really is quite amazing especially for a character known for zoning rather than combo ability. Personally my favourite was the vs Rufus one, although it was hard to choose between that and the first Balrog combo (b+MP link from the fireball is sweet).

Got an idea for who is next yet, or is that a secret until it's released?

[error1]

I was trying to see if you could use Seth's turn kick like you used Fuerte focus.
Who's next is not up to maj, it's up to us, mwahahahahahaha

[Doopliss]

I'm just gonna post this here as well:

Would it be possible to stun Seth AFTER ultra and super? That would be awesome XD Maybe if you replace b.HP with db.HP x2?

[Maj]

I dunno, it's hard to predict something like that because everything changes depending on what hits when. The most stun i got was counterhit j.B+HK, B+HP, MP Yoga Flame xx LP super, B+HK (700 damage, 618 stun). The version in the video is 702 damage, 588 stun. I wouldn't be surprised if it was possible but 618 is really far away from 750.

[Doopliss]

Maybe if you can do CH j.HK -> db.HP x2 (ultra hit) -> b.HK ->Yoga flame xx Super -> something?
or CH j.HK -> db.HP x2 (ultra hit) -> db.HP x2 -> Super -> something?

But I'm assuming DB.HP does 200 stun, maybe it does less.

[Maj]

Sounds like a good idea. The setup would have to be a little more involved because i used KKK Teleport and had to walk forward a little bit after landing. So you'd need to use PPP Teleport and have Seth walk back a few pixels to stay in the corner.

But it's hard to predict. Like you saw how i delayed that B+HK? That was to allow the ultra to do more hits before the B+HK messed with the damage reduction. So you'd think that it would be best to delay the B+HK as much as possible, right? Except if you delay it for one more ultra hit, the combo ends up doing 701 damage. I'm guessing it's because that changes when the lifebar based reduction kicks in, which makes the super do less damage or whatever.

DB+HP does 150 stun while B+HP does 100x2, so you'd still come out ahead if you did DB+HP twice. But you deeefinitely don't want to do DB+HP twice while the ultra is hitting. That absolutely rocks your reduction percentage.

[Doopliss]

well, if db.HP does 200 stun, then Seth will have 610 stun when the ultra connects. adding the db.HP x2 in the ultra deals at least 50% and 20% stun, so 140 more, which would be enough for stun. This is all in theory ofc, I don't know if you can connect a hard move and another move during the ultra.

Didn't se your message, so OK.

520 before ultra... would be very tough to do something out of that.

EDIT: wtf, why does Dhalsims air moves do so little stun? j.HK -> s.HP -> b.HK does 470 stun. No way you can stun Seth now D:

Did I just find a glitch? yoga fire (stun) xx super makes the super juggle for one hit.

The closest combo to stun Seth with is that I found is this:

CH j.HK -> df.HP -> b.HK (ultra hit) b.HK -> HP yoga fire xx super -> b.HK

160*1.25+150+200*0.8+0*0.6+200*0.5+150*0.4+0*0.3+200*0.2

200+150+160+100+60+40= 710

What really annoys me is that if Dhalsim had a normal 200 stun jump move, this would be enough. I also calculated it without the db.HP, but it was worse:

CH j.HK -> b.HK (ultra hit) b.HK -> HP yoga fire xx super -> b.HK

160*1.25+200+0*0.7+200*0.6+150*0.5+0*0.4+200*0.3

200+200+120+75+60= 655

Maybe I miscalculated something, it's 3 AM here, bu see if you can find some better way to do it.

[error1]

Between the wait of B+hp and B+hk any move that does over 85 damage would be worth it damage wise even if it hit before the ultra. If it hit after the first hit of the ultra it would only need to do more then 79 damage to be worth it. So if you could do a DB+HP ( a 21 frame 80 damage move ) after the first hit of the ultra and still have time to do a B+hk it may give you 1 extra damage.

[Maj]

Maybe I miscalculated something, it's 3 AM here, bu see if you can find some better way to do it.

Sorry dude, i'm done with Dhalsim. In fact, people have been asking if i've had a chance to test any Guile combos and i even can't remember the last time i picked him. This schedule makes it impossible for me to work on anything except the one character i'm working on. (And right now i'm behind schedule so i gotta catch up before i have to make the next challenge video.)

But if you're doing HP Yoga Fire xx LP super then you're probably losing a hit of the super. You should be able to get that B+HK without the HP Yoga Fire, if you delay the super a little bit or something.

Either way i don't think dizzy combos ever lead to death. I just can't imagine how that would be the way to go, because by then you're at like 20% reduction and you've used up all your meter, so you'll never be able to do more than like 50 damage.

[Doopliss]

I don't think I'm losing a hit, it depends on when you do the HP yoga fire. It deals 150 stun, so it's good to do it if I wanna stun him. I just wanna stun him because it would be cool to stun someone after you hit the with both ultra and super.

Between the wait of B+hp and B+hk any move that does over 85 damage would be worth it damage wise even if it hit before the ultra. If it hit after the first hit of the ultra it would only need to do more then 79 damage to be worth it. So if you could do a DB+HP ( a 21 frame 80 damage move ) after the first hit of the ultra and still have time to do a B+hk it may give you 1 extra damage.

Well, I was aiming for stun, so if you know a way to get 40 more stun, let me know XD

If I can do both db.HP and b.HK in the ultra, that would be:

CH j.HK -> df.HP -> b.HK (ultra hit) df.HP -> b.HK -> HP yoga fire xx super -> b.HK

160*1.25+150+200*0.8+0*0.6+150*0.5+200*0.4+150*0.3+0*0.2+200*0.1

200+150+160+75+80+45+20= 720

[Maj]

Yeah i don't know if you can do any better than that. If you take it midscreen then you can cause the ultra to hit slower but then you have the problem of having to catch up to Seth every time you push him back. Plus those kinds of combos are pretty deep in program pad territory.

The other thing you can do is start the ultra from outside max range, and then use certain attacks at the right time to cause Seth to lean a certain way that makes the ultra whiff. This was happening while i was testing these combos and i'm fairly certain it was caused by medium attacks. So instead of that last last B+HK during the ultra, you can use B+MK and that'll cause the last ultra hit to whiff so Seth stays on the ground. From there ... i don't know. If you can get up close, maybe do some more low fierces.

Does that make sense? Like, start the super from far away so it'll barely whiff. Then start the super from that same distance and hit him with a hard attack. He'll lean into the ultra. Then hit him with a medium attack, and he'll lean out of the ultra.

[Doopliss]

Well, I can't see spacing when I make up combos, so let's just drop it for now D:

Btw, I found this hilarious Dhalsim set-up today: http://www.filefront.com/15053147/Stree ... 00-02.mp4/

[Maj]

Hahaha that's hilarious. You could probably do that with Ryu's ultra too.

I don't know about everyone else, but i'd certainly watch a Dhalsim anti-combo video.