Street Fighter V Combo Engine Investigation

[pepopulo]

Non started it, so I might just aswell do it

Game doesn't have too much combo depth into it, but I'm finding some weird numbers on Karin's juggle points,like for example her cr.LP has 1 jp,her double kick special is also a bit weird and I'd need to test it more, but I'm 100% sure right now that, at least the lk version, first hit doesn't increase jp, second hit increases it by 1
and I'm 30% sure that all of her ex palm launcher lunches normally but raises jp by 2 when used in a juggle and her regular and just frame add like 3 meaby? I dunno, I have a lot of things to figure out.

[Dark_Chaotix]

Im new to this "juggle potential" talk, as I never come across it before. What does it mean?

[Doopliss]

Im new to this "juggle potential" talk, as I never come across it before. What does it mean?

Street Fighter IV has very specific Juggling rules, what can connect after what in juggle combos. Here's roughly how it works in SFIV, it's safe to assume it's a similar system in SFV: http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/ ... rs-w-video

[Dark_Chaotix]

I already made 2 beta vids before and I just tested what hits and what doesn't. I guess Ill has to try and learn this stuff :/

[Doopliss]

I already made 2 beta vids before and I just tested what hits and what doesn't. I guess Ill has to try and learn this stuff :/

The advantage of knowing the juggle mechanics is that it allows you to approach combos from the opposite direction: "I know this will juggle if I can pull it off, but how can I do that?"

[Doopliss]

Simultaneous hits seem to be in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UTm2pJJCPs

[pepopulo]

I remember seeing a old beta vid (I think by Bafael?) where nadeshiko and mika's command grab hitted on the same frame and mika went into the grab animation along with nadeshiko hitting, I guess this has more aplications than I initially thought

Edit: also, has anyone been able to crush counter dalshim's j.lp? I'm thought about something like Ken v Shim, cr.hp ccs shim's j.lp, cancel into super(whiff) lp shoryu v trigger something,but I can't quiet get it, might not be possible at all

[Doopliss]

I remember seeing a old beta vid (I think by Bafael?) where nadeshiko and mika's command grab hitted on the same frame and mika went into the grab animation along with nadeshiko hitting, I guess this has more aplications than I initially thought

Edit: also, has anyone been able to crush counter dalshim's j.lp? I'm thought about something like Ken v Shim, cr.hp ccs shim's j.lp, cancel into super(whiff) lp shoryu v trigger something,but I can't quiet get it, might not be possible at all

His hurtboxes don't really reach that far down on start-up. and Ken's c.HP has to connect at the lower part of its hitbox to get the CC. I managed to get a s.HP CC, but not c.HP. j.HK works better oddly enough, but your idea isn't even close to working I'm afraid.

[HarlequinRogue]

Haha, thanks for the mention of Volt, Doopliss!

[Doopliss]

Haha, thanks for the mention of Volt, Doopliss!

No problem I just find it kinda funny that it's both in Volt and SFxT, but not in The other iterations of SFIV.

[pepopulo]

I remember seeing a old beta vid (I think by Bafael?) where nadeshiko and mika's command grab hitted on the same frame and mika went into the grab animation along with nadeshiko hitting, I guess this has more aplications than I initially thought

Edit: also, has anyone been able to crush counter dalshim's j.lp? I'm thought about something like Ken v Shim, cr.hp ccs shim's j.lp, cancel into super(whiff) lp shoryu v trigger something,but I can't quiet get it, might not be possible at all

His hurtboxes don't really reach that far down on start-up. and Ken's c.HP has to connect at the lower part of its hitbox to get the CC. I managed to get a s.HP CC, but not c.HP. j.HK works better oddly enough, but your idea isn't even close to working I'm afraid.

Oh what a shame.
Well, wethever, I have a lot of fun Karin things I'm finding, altho nothing is that big compared to SF4 things, still I'm having a theory way to combo into her neck grab, but I can't get it to work, her ex shoulder staggers the opponent and they're grounded for some frames, I can get a grounded hit or a grab if I trade correctly, but seems that the neck grab is way too long (you have to do first her overhead or her rekkas).

[Doopliss]

Karin is the character I know the least about right now, I barely know her specials. Does Karin still have those just frame things? If so, how do they work exactly? Knowing that could save me a lot of time down the line (Or end up costing me a lot if I try to pull them of too much).

[Persona]

You perform the punch after her dash as soon as possible. If done correctly, she says something different and it does more damage. The sound she makes is in the video I just posted.

Also I'm a bit worried how we all are going to make our vids because I'm sure that in a very short time everyone is going to have the same stuff. I'm sure there's going to be people saying we've stole their stuff and all.

[pepopulo]

Yeah,game doesn't have much depth combowhise, I'm finding some cool stuff like whiffing a throw mid combo and comboing into a grab without a crush counter, but other than that it's pretty meh, I miss that meterless ex just frame tenko from Karin, it's a shame they patched it

[Persona]

I guess in the end it comes to what the viewers want to see more from the combo maker that isn't really about the combos (editing, music choice, etc) since everyone is going to have the same stuff.

[Pokey86]

Yeah combo videos will likely become very dry very quickly for this... Hell, it would have dried out quicker than SFIV if it had a similar depth combo system purely because there's more people doing deeper stuff now.

I'm finding some strange discrepancies with R Mika (Only had a day with the game)

F.HP (Counterhit) Definitely creates a free juggle state, But after it Charged HK -> DP (Wingless Airplane) doesn't hit.

Where-As

Rope throw (Corner return) Charged HK -> DP

Works fine.

i believe rope throw creates an airborne state (Rather than juggle state) so that Charged HK hits airborne, where-as perhaps it adds more JP when hitting a juggled opponent.

I think i'll have a go at breaking this down at some point (And if i do, i'll do it correctly as Maj suggested, keeping old version figures when new patches come out, rather than disregarding them.)


Also i'm really fucked off that R.Mikas splash doesn't have an OTG effect like her VT, it fucking well should I pre-arranged a combo so that mika could splash after her pal & it doesn't fucking work... Fuck Fuck Fuckedy Fuck. (I won't be making a CV now)

Appears that both her F.HP & Charge HK add more than 1 JP when hitting juggled. Managed to do CH F.HP -> MP Ass move thing -> DP

[Pokey86]

I think i'll get it out the way & start an juggling thread, get it started now before i start playing heavily online & lose motivation.

[Doopliss]

Also i'm really fucked off that R.Mikas splash doesn't have an OTG effect like her VT, it fucking well should I pre-arranged a combo so that mika could splash after her pal & it doesn't fucking work... Fuck Fuck Fuckedy Fuck. (I won't be making a CV now)

Noticed that as well. Almost as annoying as the fact that Bison's EX Stomp OTG doesn't work after CC c.HK, which is the only situation where it would be guaranteed (Unless you juggle into it like Desk did in his video).

[phoenix]

So there's something really weird going on with SF5 meaties. If you do a meaty normal and cancel it into a special which normally wouldn't like, it can sometimes suddenly link:

https://twitter.com/TheFatherspoon/stat ... 7979043840

cr.MP xx stomp with Necalli only combos on meaty. Weird right? That twitter account suggests that this is because the game actually finishes the active frames of a move, even if you cancel into a new special, but this explanation has been shown to not work. 60fps recordings confirm that movies simply cancel on the first frame possible.

So that should mean that, if you hit a normal on a later active frame, it actually does MORE hitstun. This seems to predict that you should be maybe also get meaty link combos to work, which by their framedata perhaps shouldn't, or something like that.

Anyone have any idea what's going on with this? Whatever is going on, it should make for some interesting new combovideo opportunities once this is explored further.

[Doopliss]

It's possible it's just a one-off thing for that particular move. Post-active frame cancel window would've been my guess too, but since that has been disproven, who knows.

[error1]

It works without meaty in vt for some reason

[Doopliss]

It works without meaty in vt for some reason

It's just a feature of VT, I believe all the stomps are slightly faster.

[pepopulo]

actually I think that all his medium normals have more hitstun

[Doopliss]

actually I think that all his medium normals have more hitstun

Might be. Either way, it's supposed to work in VT.

[Maj]

Is it just me or do most SF5 combos feel really basic/formulaic? Every combo is like jumpin or crush counter, link, VT, link, super. Setups seem pretty limited too, although i like the double interrupt setup off FANG's upward poisons.

So far the only video i've enjoyed all the way through is SF5 Weird Stuff by desk. Hopefully there's more of that stuff waiting to be found.

[HarlequinRogue]

Is it just me or do most SF5 combos feel really basic/formulaic? Every combo is like jumpin or crush counter, link, VT, link, super. Setups seem pretty limited too, although i like the double interrupt setup off FANG's upward poisons.

So far the only video i've enjoyed all the way through is SF5 Weird Stuff by desk. Hopefully there's more of that stuff waiting to be found.

That's what I thought so as well. I was impressed by comboing after Fang's CA (though it being limited) and his latest combo with ken crossing under with V-trigger

[Persona]

I have no idea how to understand the JP system but I wondered why I couldn't do qcf MK xx qcfx2 P on a juggled opponent with Necalli if it was from a dp LP. The super would whiff.

But if I did it from say, his target combo, it would combo. In that case, how much JP would that dp LP be?

[Pokey86]

I'll make Necalli the next person i'll try and dissect & let you know.

[Doopliss]

I have no idea how to understand the JP system but I wondered why I couldn't do qcf MK xx qcfx2 P on a juggled opponent with Necalli if it was from a dp LP. The super would whiff.

But if I did it from say, his target combo, it would combo. In that case, how much JP would that dp LP be?

When it comes to the stomp, it's more about them slamming into the ground before the super becomes active unless you hit them REALLY high up with it.

[Persona]

I have no idea how to understand the JP system but I wondered why I couldn't do qcf MK xx qcfx2 P on a juggled opponent with Necalli if it was from a dp LP. The super would whiff.

But if I did it from say, his target combo, it would combo. In that case, how much JP would that dp LP be?

When it comes to the stomp, it's more about them slamming into the ground before the super becomes active unless you hit them REALLY high up with it.

I'm pretty sure I've been stomping the opponent higher than from the juggle from the target combo and it still whiffs but I'm also getting images in my head that I've connected it before. Damn, guess I'll try again to be sure but after a long while I just gave up and left the stomp out of the video.