USF4 Combo Engine Investigation

[anotak]

pretty disappointed by evil cammy. Looks really mugen.
Yeah, psycho inferno definitely has some potential, I bet it has shorter hit stun, might be better for trades.

yeah she looks like something me and Zeipher make for free, but capcom gets paid to do what they do

:/

maybe that rumor about 3 more chars is true though

[Doopliss]

Does anyone here who mods SFIV have some more insight on this glitch? http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2014/apr/ ... fighter-4/

[TomSinister]

looks like they just made it cancleable on purpose.

[Doopliss]

looks like they just made it cancleable on purpose.

Nope, it's a glitch that happens because it's too fast (2f start-up). It's what caused that EX SRK to be cancelled into U1 in that one video, and I use it quite extensively in my SFIV Koryu CVs. A dude on EH also tried changing EX Tatsu to 2f start-up, and managed to get the same result.

[error1]

just sounds like a mistake they made.
Only weird thing about SENPUKYAKU_EX in ae is that there are three identical versions of it.

[TomSinister]

looks like they just made it cancleable on purpose.

Nope, it's a glitch that happens because it's too fast (2f start-up). It's what caused that EX SRK to be cancelled into U1 in that one video, and I use it quite extensively in my SFIV Koryu CVs. A dude on EH also tried changing EX Tatsu to 2f start-up, and managed to get the same result.

I do not understand why having the move be 2 frame startup would make is cancelable after the first active frame. I am aware that specials can be kara canceled on their first frame, so this would make sense to me if that move was 1-frame starup, but not 2. There are also already many specials in the game that are 2 frame startup, so would this mean that these specials are also cancelable after the first active frame?

Possibly relevant video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6mds_CkoAM&t=23m59s

[Doopliss]

looks like they just made it cancleable on purpose.

Nope, it's a glitch that happens because it's too fast (2f start-up). It's what caused that EX SRK to be cancelled into U1 in that one video, and I use it quite extensively in my SFIV Koryu CVs. A dude on EH also tried changing EX Tatsu to 2f start-up, and managed to get the same result.

I do not understand why having the move be 2 frame startup would make is cancelable after the first active frame. I am aware that specials can be kara canceled on their first frame, so this would make sense to me if that move was 1-frame starup, but not 2. There are also already many specials in the game that are 2 frame startup, so would this mean that these specials are also cancelable after the first active frame?

Possibly relevant video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6mds_CkoAM&t=23m59s

I don't really understand it either. I always assumed it only happened with 1f moves, where you could literally "kara" cancel the active frame, but this shows us otherwise. As for the current 2f moves, they either have a huge super-freeze in the middle, or they are grab-type moves. These things, as well as a move being airborne, seems to negate this glitch. People are also saying this glitch only works when EX Tatsu is a reversal, which I really have no explanation for. Maybe that is what allows it to be kara-cancelled despite being a 2f move. At some point I'm gonna experiment with 2f grabs as reversals and see if they might allow something like this afterall.

Yes, that's the video I referred to. They're most likely playing on PC with that glitchy framerate setting. I originally though two of the three start-up frames of the EX SRK were skipped (which sounded highly unlikely), but now it seems it was enough that one of them were skipped (which sounds a lot more plausible). It's definitely the same thing, it even deducts meter in the same fashion, which is different from armor cancels and kara cancels.

Btw error, at what frame is meter currently deducted from an average EX move? because in the video Tom linked you can see that the meter is deducted after the EX SRK hits.

Here's a video from the dude on EH who modded it into his game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIJQbYN1uQk

[Rufus]

I do not understand why having the move be 2 frame startup would make is cancelable after the first active frame. I am aware that specials can be kara canceled on their first frame, so this would make sense to me if that move was 1-frame starup, but not 2. There are also already many specials in the game that are 2 frame startup, so would this mean that these specials are also cancelable after the first active frame?

My understanding is that the game does some kind of internal magic to facilitate reversals. It may be that inputting the special move early in the reversal window, and then the EX/Ultra/whatever later exploits that.

If red focus allows Fuerte to RSF-> EX Red Focus DC -> RSF that would give him OHKO stuff against most of the cast.
EX Red Focus -> Ultra throw has silly potential for a couple of characters.

[Doopliss]

If red focus allows Fuerte to RSF-> EX Red Focus DC -> RSF that would give him OHKO stuff against most of the cast.

If he can't EX RFA from a long range s.HP, he can always cancel it into lv.1 QB into EX RFA.

[error1]

you can normally only kara cancel a move on frame 0 and frame 1, nether one of those would use up meter for the first move.
I didn't think you could kara reversals at all but I guess you can.

[Ultima]

So, uh, anyone know what's up with being able to re-stand after command throw in corner in USFIV? It's odd enough that Hugo can do it after Meat Squasher (s.LP) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSloLYCrivw"), but now Fuerte can do it after Tortilla Propeller (s.LK) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6YfLbrIA50) as well. Was this intentional or are these bugs?

[onReload]

Fuerte's been able to do that for awhile now, maybe even since Vanilla. I highly doubt it's intentional, especially since it re-stands the opponent, which looks so unnatural...and un-Street-Fighter-like.

[Ultima]

Fuerte's been able to do that for awhile now, maybe even since Vanilla. I highly doubt it's intentional, especially since it re-stands the opponent, which looks so unnatural...and un-Street-Fighter-like.

Wow, really? I don't think I've seen this with Fuerte before. is it one of those character-dependent 1-frame type things? I know there's a ton of character-specific weirdness in SFIV series that I've never paid attention to because they were too esoteric or difficult to make use of. The fact that Hugo can re-stand (it was also in the arcade release, right?) and El Fuerte still, apparently, can re-stand, makes it seem like Capcom either wants them to have that ability or can't be bothered to fix it. Cause yeah, it IS very UN-SF-like.

[Doopliss]

In case someone else finds it before I can record it, I just want to say that you can combo off of T.Hawk's LK spire mid-combo.

[error1]

Fuerte's been able to do that for awhile now, maybe even since Vanilla. I highly doubt it's intentional, especially since it re-stands the opponent, which looks so unnatural...and un-Street-Fighter-like.

Wow, really? I don't think I've seen this with Fuerte before. is it one of those character-dependent 1-frame type things? I know there's a ton of character-specific weirdness in SFIV series that I've never paid attention to because they were too esoteric or difficult to make use of. The fact that Hugo can re-stand (it was also in the arcade release, right?) and El Fuerte still, apparently, can re-stand, makes it seem like Capcom either wants them to have that ability or can't be bothered to fix it. Cause yeah, it IS very UN-SF-like.

it's a one frame corner only thing, he has always had it. Probably a bug, but why would they nerph El Fuerte

[Doopliss]

On that note, You can do lv.3 FA into propeller tortilla on Hugo... but the restand doesn't work on him it seems.

[onReload]

On that note, You can do lv.3 FA into propeller tortilla on Hugo... but the restand doesn't work on him it seems.

Meaning it won't hit at all, or it doesn't re-stand?

[pepopulo]

On that note, You can do lv.3 FA into propeller tortilla on Hugo... but the restand doesn't work on him it seems.

Meaning it won't hit at all, or it doesn't re-stand?

From what I've seen Doopliss testing (and from what I tested myself) it doesn't hit,also did Doopliss mention that Posion's ex rekka doesn't cause float,but all her....his...wherever normals have 1 point of jp?

[Doopliss]

On that note, You can do lv.3 FA into propeller tortilla on Hugo... but the restand doesn't work on him it seems.

Meaning it won't hit at all, or it doesn't re-stand?

From what I've seen Doopliss testing (and from what I tested myself) it doesn't hit,also did Doopliss mention that Posion's ex rekka doesn't cause float,but all her....his...wherever normals have 1 point of jp?

Indeed, the restand kick won't connect in time. This also goes for t.Hawk and Zangief. Poison can also be hit by lv.3 FA to PT and the restand DOES work on her, but you can't do anything else after it.

And yes, all of poisons moves have 1 point of JP, and nothing causes float. The exception to both of these is her FA.

[Smileymike101]

Doopliss, do you have any juicy Hugo bits?

[Persona]

Got some noob questions.

Does FA level 2 and 3 give the same amount of crumple frames? It seems that it's easier to hit the opponent before they flip after a level 3.

Does every character have the same amount of wake up frames? Interested to know for editing purposes.

Does the final weak attack (e.g. down LP, down LP) before cancelling into a special have to be a link and not a chain?

In Maj's videos, after the FA level 3 trade, is the next FA level 2 or 3?

Any way to completely turn off the music?

[Maj]

Does FA level 2 and 3 give the same amount of crumple frames? It seems that it's easier to hit the opponent before they flip after a level 3.

Lvl3 crumple is definitely longer than lvl2 crumple, but i'm not sure by how much.

Does every character have the same amount of wake up frames? Interested to know for editing purposes.

No, there are some exceptions.

Does the final weak attack (e.g. down LP, down LP) before cancelling into a special have to be a link and not a chain?

Yup, chained weak attacks can not be canceled into specials/supers.

In Maj's videos, after the FA level 3 trade, is the next FA level 2 or 3?

It's usually lvl2 Focus Attack if i wanted to continue a ground combo, or a lvl3 FA if i wanted to do a juggle combo. It's pretty hard to combo into lvl3 Focus crumple.

Anyway there are a few ways you can tell lvl2 FA apart from lvl3 FA:
If it flashes white once while charging, it's a lvl2 FA. If it flashes white twice, it's a lvl3 FA.
If it has a thick inky trail, it's a lvl3 FA. If the black ink only appears on impact, it's a lvl2 FA.
The amount of hit pause is also different, but that's harder to notice if you don't play SF4.

Any way to completely turn off the music?

http://combovid.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=16926#p16926

[Persona]

Thanks! Okay I downloaded the MP3 but how exactly do you play other music in games? I never did it before.

Also got 895 stun with Poison. Are there any characters with less than 900 stun? *asking everyone*

[Doopliss]

Akuma has 850.

Doopliss, do you have any juicy Hugo bits?

Not really, he's kinda simple. You can do UT, Clap, Clap, Super U2. You might be able to do meaty CH D,D+MK into LP clap.

EDIT: Actually, try juggling with lv.1 EX RFA. Easiest from EX Lariat. Looks like something from my USFIV change suggestions.

[Last_Window]

Also got 895 stun with Poison. Are there any characters with less than 900 stun? *asking everyone*

Unless his stun changed in USFIV, Akuma (850).

[Persona]

Thanks! Sadly the combo doesn't work on Akuma.

Tried on many characters and it seems to only work on Cammy. Adjusted the combo a bit and was able to get around 935 stun but was able to stun Cammy starting with a counter hit (950+ stun).

[Last_Window]

Thanks! Sadly the combo doesn't work on Akuma.

Tried on many characters and it seems to only work on Cammy. Adjusted the combo a bit and was able to get around 935 stun but was able to stun Cammy starting with a counter hit (950+ stun).

Did you try it on Decapre?

Also, for any other big stun combos, there's also Edition Select. Characters like Evil Ryu and Seth had less health/stun on previous versions of SF4.

[Persona]

Thanks! Sadly the combo doesn't work on Akuma.

Tried on many characters and it seems to only work on Cammy. Adjusted the combo a bit and was able to get around 935 stun but was able to stun Cammy starting with a counter hit (950+ stun).

Did you try it on Decapre?

Also, for any other big stun combos, there's also Edition Select. Characters like Evil Ryu and Seth had less health/stun on previous versions of SF4.

Yep I tried it on Decapre. Odd that it doesn't work on her. Also doesn't work on Seth but haven't tried Evil Ryu yet.

[Last_Window]

Yep I tried it on Decapre. Odd that it doesn't work on her. Also doesn't work on Seth but haven't tried Evil Ryu yet.

Odd indeed, but it's also strange that it only works on Cammy. As far as I know, her hitbox is quite "normal", nothing like, for example, Honda's.

[Persona]

Here's the stun combo. Very boring to watch but I couldn't find any other way to stun without doing it this way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Upg6gpmxz9g

It hits normally on crouching E. Honda and it completely whiffs on crouching Chun-Li. :/