USF4 Combo Engine Investigation

[Doopliss]

^ But are you going on the supposition that they'll have the meter for both? or are these Final-TAP combos?

...and how in the heck can Dhalsim combo both lol

Trade U1 w/ Final TAP, dash opponent out of U1, combo into crumple, U2. Can't guarantee this would work (lvl.2 FA to U2 is character specific), but it might.

[onReload]

Oh right, forgot U1 doesn't knock down on every hit

[onReload]

Sigh

Does anyone else feel like USF4 is just some random mod for SSF4? Just some weirdo ideas:

"EX Red Focus will cause the crumple effect even with Level 1. For example, Ryu can do Heavy Punch → EX Red Focus Attack (crumple) → Metsu Hadoken."

and now delayed wakeup...which almost feels like a, "hey, we couldn't fix unblockables, so now you can just wait it out."

But then again, it's also "fuck your safe jump, OS, pre-programmed bullshit"

[TomSinister]

I think a level 1 red focus crumple could be good for combos. The main purpose of ex red focus is to help out charge characters, and the only two characters that really benefit from spending meter for a level 1 focus crumple are Guile and Bison. Guile can confirm into s.hp xx red focus - ultra 1, and Bison can lk scissors xx red focus - ultra.

I think the delayed wakeup could be good, but they would need to modify how reversal dp works. wake up srk fadc is just way too strong if you can run safejumps. The game would get really campy and slooooowww. Removing fadc from reversals would probably solve everything.

@Doopliss (or anyone else)
Do you know who Sim can lvl 2 focus - ultra 2 on? I've tried it on a bunch of characters but couldn't get it to work on anyone. Unless you count if sim backdashes with his back to the corner, but then it works on everybody.

[error1]

should be really useful for blanka, honda, gief and elfurte
who have no good way to confirm into ultra
should even be useful for characters like fei, balrog, cammy, and dudly
who don't normally get full ultras

[Doopliss]

I think a level 1 red focus crumple could be good for combos. The main purpose of ex red focus is to help out charge characters, and the only two characters that really benefit from spending meter for a level 1 focus crumple are Guile and Bison. Guile can confirm into s.hp xx red focus - ultra 1, and Bison can lk scissors xx red focus - ultra.

Guile can already FK xx FADC U2 though, or EX SB xx lv.2 FA, U1/U2 in the corner. And I'd say Vega and Honda gets even more mileage out of it than Bison (Honda can do c.HP xx EX RFA, or HHS xx EX RFA, Vega can do it from his 4-frame s.HK, even on max range, alternatively from LP Roll. No charge required to combo into Ultra from a light (Then again, Bison will always have time to charge LK SK))

Do you know who Sim can lvl 2 focus - ultra 2 on? I've tried it on a bunch of characters but couldn't get it to work on anyone. Unless you count if sim backdashes with his back to the corner, but then it works on everybody.

lv.2 FA to U2 only works with backdash. The question is: Who is wide enough to get hit by it after a combo? Dudley is the best dummy I know of for that. YOu also have some sweet corner combos on him, like b.HP xx EX YF, b.HP xx EX YF.

[Q80Warlock]

The possibilities

http://youtu.be/y_4E9rNucd8

I'm sure if it's true the crumple animation and charging will be similar to LV2 focus, I just did this mod rather quickly.

[Doopliss]

Huh, couldn't get DeeJay's FA to connect after Rolling Sobat when I tried it, gonna have to give it another go.

[Snoooootch]

I wonder is Rolento's super would allow juggles after. His ex rekka is only a 1 rekka hit. Won't cancel to more, but ex rekka launches float. I'm liking that.

[Doopliss]

I'm liking that EX RFA crumples on lv.1. They said it wasn't there before, but I'm glad it is.

EDIT: Vega's super launcher hit combos into Rolling Izuna Drop... mother of god...

[Snoooootch]

Vega's super launcher hit combos into Rolling Izuna Drop... mother of god...

That is an incredible, awesome, extraordinary, excelsior buff.

[Doopliss]

Vega's super launcher hit combos into Rolling Izuna Drop... mother of god...

That is an incredible, awesome, extraordinary, excelsior buff.

Yeah. It might scale twice, but it's still 450 damage from a super...

[Pokey86]

I'm liking that EX RFA crumples on lv.1. They said it wasn't there before, but I'm glad it is.

EDIT: Vega's super launcher hit combos into Rolling Izuna Drop... mother of god...

I wonder if they'll still allow roll to cancel in to Super on the last hit.

[Snoooootch]

^that would look so cool.

[Doopliss]

I'm liking that EX RFA crumples on lv.1. They said it wasn't there before, but I'm glad it is.

EDIT: Vega's super launcher hit combos into Rolling Izuna Drop... mother of god...

I wonder if they'll still allow roll to cancel in to Super on the last hit.

I don't see why not, it's not like you can hitconfirm into that in any way. LP roll won't give you time to charge for super, and the others will only combo from CH mediums (MP Roll only) or cl.HP.

[Pokey86]

I'm liking that EX RFA crumples on lv.1. They said it wasn't there before, but I'm glad it is.

EDIT: Vega's super launcher hit combos into Rolling Izuna Drop... mother of god...

I wonder if they'll still allow roll to cancel in to Super on the last hit.

I don't see why not, it's not like you can hitconfirm into that in any way. LP roll won't give you time to charge for super, and the others will only combo from CH mediums (MP Roll only) or cl.HP.

that's true but you're in no danger say... Frame trapping with Standing HP in to HP Roll, which leaves you what? -1/-2 on block? with about 10 years to hit confirm in to Super.

Not exactly broken, one hell of a safe frame trap though. (safe confirm to an 80% super)

[Doopliss]

Roll is like -8 in USFIV. Which strengths this applies to is unclear though.

EDIT: They are apparetly -8 on hit, still safe on block. However, the last hit cannot be cancelled.

[onReload]

http://www.reddit.com/r/SF4/comments/1r ... s_talking/

So all the same combos will still work, but timings will need to be shifted over a frame? Toss out all your old sequenced stuff if ya got it...

[Ultima]

1F increase on hitstop? That's cool for charge characters I guess, though I'm not sure if that's good for anything else (they say this helps with unblockables? I thought that was a hitbox issue? And weren't unblockables confirmed to still be in the beta build?). Am I the only one who misses SF2's 14F hitstop for all hits effect?

*Reads thread* Oh wait, gilley says they didn't actually increase hitstop, just altered the way hit detection is calculated. It still seems to slow things down by 1F but hitstop is the same, at least as far as combo timing goes? Maybe it's just a day one thing. Also I guess most unblockables are gone, but some remain. Bah.

The buff on Vega's super is long overdue. Once they did that to the first hit of Vega's EX Barcelona Attack/Izuna Drop, they should have done the same to the super, since in a game full of useless supers, Vega's was one of the worst since it's so difficult yo actually. The damage the super does is irrelevant if you can't ever land it, far less if you never have meter built up for it since you're looking to land EX moves.

If EX Red Focus is going to cost 4 bars, it had better crumple at level 1. That's an insane meter requirement (see also: supers might as well not exist in SFIV).

Does anyone else agree that Delayed Wakeup is a lazy fix to SFIV's fundamental problem of bad offense in general?

ON a completely unrelated note, I have a general question about engine properties and which would do you fine folks think is better, since is the best place for engine analysis and discussion that I know, but I'm not sure where to ask. Thanks.

[error1]

ex red focus costing 4 bars is really silly, can't think of many situations where it's better to fa then super.

Delayed Wakeup is a solid way of weakening the wakeup game, it's basically the same thing as quick rise but in the other direction.
The sf series since sfa is filled with moves that are designed to give you options to wakeup differently, it seems like this one might work for once.

[Ultima]

Delayed Wakeup is a solid way of weakening the wakeup game, it's basically the same thing as quick rise but in the other direction. The sf series since sfa is filled with moves that are designed to give you options to wakeup differently, it seems like this one might work for once.

The problem is why the wakeup game needs to be weakened, and who will really get hurt by this.

The wakeup game in SFIV gets a bad rep because of Vortex characters, which are really characters who have managed to slip through SFIV's array of bad offensive systems to be the only ones capable of sustaining some kind of offensive pressure. Since their offense is too good, relatively, now a system is in place to punish them so that everyone now sucks at offense, since general offense is still likely to be very poor (I don't see W-Ultra or Red Focus assisting in that regard).

It would be one thing if just the vortex characters were affected. But this will also affect non-vortex characters who rely heavily on okizeme for most of their damage, like Able, El Fuerte, Zangief, etc. Outside of Ibuki, the vortex characters are pretty strong already, but the weaker okizeme characters are going to get hit hard by this change. We're hoping that their general toolset will be improved to compensate, but I'm not betting on it based on Capcom's track record. Several of their changes in Ultra SFIV so far (M.BISON) are all sorts of retarded.

[onReload]

Now that you mention it...yeah I can't imagine what I'll do as Zangief. No easy cross-up body splash? What hath god wrought?

[soulsynapse]

http://www.reddit.com/r/SF4/comments/1r ... s_talking/

So all the same combos will still work, but timings will need to be shifted over a frame? Toss out all your old sequenced stuff if ya got it...

oh hey that was my post haha funny seeing it here

umm, usf4 insights, I guess delayed wake up feels like it's ~5-10 frames or so. If you do an ambiguous setup and they late wake up and then do a 5f move it won't hit meaty? I think. Input window for it is pretty tight, it'll only work if you input it during the flop on hard knockdown, Meaning if you read hard knockdown but its soft, you'll do quick wake up.

Another big thing is (and it could have just been a fluke?) but a lot of midscreen fake crossups are in the game, as in it'll hit one side but you land on the other. I had it happen 3 times during games at the loctest.

That's all I got!

[Snoooootch]

Okay, anyone here plan on Playing USF4 on PSN, living in North America? We need some training mode comboes and choreographed sequences!

[onReload]

online training mode will be amazing for combo workshopping/creation

[Maj]

Looks like Rolento's j.MP juggles somehow?

[error1]

seems like getting the last hit to whiff is the way to go

[Doopliss]

EX Red focus is 3 bars now, yes (Wrote pages of feedback to capcom about that thing) <3 Hopefully is still crumples on lv.1, no one is gonna offer up an extra bar for 50% more damage.

http://shoryuken.com/2014/01/30/ultra-s ... ange-list/

Also, Hugo's s.HP has armor. Might allow for some crazy armor cancels.

[Doopliss]

So, Decapre's U1 works like Dhalsim's U1... Time for Catastrophic Rebound 2: The Psychoning?

[error1]

pretty disappointed by evil cammy. Looks really mugen.
Yeah, psycho inferno definitely has some potential, I bet it has shorter hit stun, might be better for trades.