SFxT Combo Engine Investigation

[error1]

Would any of you guys be interested in writing an SFxT Juggle System Overview for ComboVid?

The juggle system basically works the same as sf4 but nearly everything has some jp,
most light attacks are jp1
most medium jp2
most hard jp3
Counter Attacks are jp99
Special moves are normally between 1 and 6jp
cross arts are jp3
Most moves have these juggle potentials, but the numbers are not universal.

Most moves increase the juggle potential by one when they hit.
What this means is, after you start a juggle you can land 2 more light attacks, three medium attacks, or four hard attacks.
So if you start with a hard attack you can get five total hard attacks before you run out of jp.
Some moves don't increase the jp at all when they hit, normally part of a mulithit move. For example the first hit of Ryu's j.mp doesn't add any jp.
Some moves increase the jp by more then one on hit, for example the last hit of a Counter Attack increases it by 99
Note that moves can have different juggle potentials based on if you chain them or not. For example Ryus c.hk, c. mp, c.mk are normally only 1jp but if you chain into them they have more jp. Rolento's launcher is jp3 if you don't chain it and jp0 if you do.
Doing a Switch Cancel resets the jp.

[Doopliss]

What this means is, after you start a juggle you can land 1 more light attack

But can't you do two light moves after most juggle starters?

[error1]

What this means is, after you start a juggle you can land 1 more light attack

But can't you do two light moves after most juggle starters?

I don't know, I've never played the game. Give me an actual example.

[Smileymike101]

Launcher, and when the other character comes in, cr.jab x2.
I think the juggles here start at 0,not 1, like in sf4.

[Doopliss]

Launcher, and when the other character comes in, cr.jab x2.
I think the juggles here start at 0,not 1, like in sf4.

Or simply lariat to two lights of your choice with Hugo. You can also do LP xx MP, c.MK.

[error1]

Launcher, and when the other character comes in, cr.jab x2.
I think the juggles here start at 0,not 1, like in sf4.

the juggle started from 0 in sf4. If the opponent was at juggle state 0 a move with jp1 could hit twice. To account for the extra hit you get in sfxt you would have to start with a juggle state at -1.
I think what's happening is that most moves don't add jp when they start a juggle. Sf4 used a field for that in the hitbox data, sfxt doesn't seem to have the same thing.

[error1]

the above should be pretty easy to test, just do a 1 hit j.mp or other float move and see how many light punches you can get. If its the same as you get off a launcher then it's safe to assume most moves don't add jp when you stat with them.

[Raine]

I was messing around with trades and noticed some weird stuff. Asuka's cr.HP causes crumple on counterhit, but trading cr.HP with another normal will result in only the opponent receiving the counterhit message/bonus. Julia's f+MK causes some kind of reel stun on counterhit, but trade it with another normal and neither character will receive the counterhit message/bonus.

EDIT: Hmm I played around some more and noticed that if the opponent is crouching, only Julia/Asuka will receive the counterhit message/bonus (which means I can setup Asuka cr.HP trade -> jump in, yay) but not the opponent. I have no idea what's going on.

[Rufus]

I was messing around with trades and noticed some weird stuff. Asuka's cr.HP causes crumple on counterhit, but trading cr.HP with another normal will result in only the opponent receiving the counterhit message/bonus. Julia's f+MK causes some kind of reel stun on counterhit, but trade it with another normal and neither character will receive the counterhit message/bonus.

EDIT: Hmm I played around some more and noticed that if the opponent is crouching, only Julia/Asuka will receive the counterhit message/bonus (which means I can setup Asuka cr.HP trade -> jump in, yay) but not the opponent. I have no idea what's going on.

I thought there was something about traded hits typically not being counter hits in the game. (That is to say, most moves only give counter hit on the frames *before* the active ones.) If that theory is correct, you should still be able to get counterhit trades by ex-charging the moves.

[Snoooootch]

Man, so in redoing Bison's trials over again, one of the trials calls for Bison to do: Hell attak (Jp. mp target combo), st. mp, st. hp, Psycho crusher.

So, When you do it, Kazuya (Tekken side's Dummy) is juggled twice by Bison's psycho crusher.

I went to replicate in the training mode, but on Hugo. I got no second juggle. Switched the dummy to Kazuya, nothing. Switched to the training stage in training mode with Kazuya, nothing. Then I tried different variations of his hell attack, and none juggled twice at the psycho crusher.

I went back to the trials and retried it. And it juggled.

Little did I know, Juggle potential stays the same as the last hit's jp, so I spent over an hour realizing why so many of my previous ideas never worked.

So, just a heads up. If you landed a weird juggle in trials, it may not work in training mode if it was a last hit juggle on a special move that hits more than once.

[Smileymike101]

It's like Ryu's tatsu.It has multiple hits but can only hit once.It hits 2 if it KO's.Because it ends the trial and the frame it hits, it creates a post-KO'ish state.

[Snoooootch]

haha, yes, exactly.

[Raine]

I noticed a few other weird things in trial mode due the "Success" message cutting off whatever action was currently in progress. An example is when you do the trial with headstomp and he doesn't bounce off afterwards, just lands straight on the ground. I'm sure there were a few supers that stopped in the middle of the animation too.

[Snoooootch]

Hey guys, here's some combos I did for a collab combo video I'm working on with Mikadok. Any of y'all get any ideas from these?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8H3Gjkth0cc

[Raine]

That last combo is sick, nice work! What's happening at the start with Abel after the crossunder roll? It looks he's cancelling his charge dash directly into f+MK, can he do that? (I know Julia can with f,f+MP but I thought she was unique in that aspect due to the move's motion). I dunno if you just wanted to keep it short and sweet but Guile can do a bit more off a tag in, e.g. cr.MP x 3 then link flashkick, or cr.MP x 2, cl.HP xx flashkick (or you can get fancy and start throwing his weird kicks in, b+LK, b/f+MK, f+HK and df+HK all fit into juggles).

[Snoooootch]

What's happening at the start with Abel after the crossunder roll? It looks he's cancelling his charge dash directly into f+MK, can he do that?

It's actually his taunt, but I input it right before Hugo was shot behind him, so he basically faces the opposite direction during the wall bounce. And yeah, under different circumstances, he can SADC and go straight into a 2 f+mk juggle.

And good thinking with the guile combo. I haven't really toyed with him much. Thanks!

[Doopliss]

I think I might be able to start working with this game soon. The reason for that is that I got a great idea on how to handle it thematically, and sometimes, that's all you need. I just hope I'll actally be able to put some time into it and not just rush it like I usually do, but since I'm not really feeling this game atm, that shouldn't be a problem.

[Tigre III]

Yeah, find a way to handle it thematically sometimes is the hardest thing... I have this game, and i work on it in my free time, but i cannot make any CMVs, im too busy... And KOF XIII is still unexplored, we believe (we have almost two new CMVs waiting for edition)... So, i think my combos for this game we can not ever show...
Until now, which I have observed is that the damage scaling is so hard, making the harcore combos unnecessary... From the viewpoint of damage, of course. But it seems that sometimes, the order of the special moves (and EX special moves) changes the damage scaling. I must test it more in depth...
For example, searching a high damage combo with Hugo, i connect j.HK, c.MP, LP clap, c.MP, EX clap and super, with a really good damage. But im not sure that if you connect first the EX clap and after the LP one, the damage is better...

[Doopliss]

Until now, which I have observed is that the damage scaling is so hard, making the harcore combos unnecessary... From the viewpoint of damage, of course. But it seems that sometimes, the order of the special moves (and EX special moves) changes the damage scaling. I must test it more in depth...
For example, searching a high damage combo with Hugo, i connect j.HK, c.MP, LP clap, c.MP, EX clap and super, with a really good damage. But im not sure that if you connect first the EX clap and after the LP one, the damage is better...

Since EX clap does more damage, it's better to put if before the LP clap, yes. With this scaling system, you basically want to bring out the damage as soon as possible in a combo.

[Tigre III]

haha its sounds so obviously now... I dont know why, but i was thinking EX moves do the same damage that normal moves, lol! Better go to sleep...

[Tigre III]

mmm I found a way to connect Lili´s dominating heel (2 hits) without counter. And you can do it from a j.HK... I dont know, but maybe (so hard, but...) you can loop dominating heel in some way. The special hitstun state of the second hit has some interesting possibilities, like meaty hits, or some slow attacks...

Edit:
I finally found the way to loop it 2 times, without counter. The combo might look like this:

j.HK, dominating heel (2 hits) , dominating heel (2 hits) Peacock Jive (2 hits only) , cMP, cMP, HK angel knee, cMp, cMP,cMP, tag super (3 bars)

If, after Peacock Jive, connect Bed time, HK Angel knee, and for the juggle, Bed time, HK Angel knee, the last Angel knee hits the dummy at the top of the screen, perfect for a tag switch cancel. You have a lot of time to connect another hit with the other fighter (even cross the dummy) A nice set up for a stylish combo (15 hits, and only one bar used) I say "stylish", because the damage scaling is 10% before you can switch so... Not so much damage here.

Works well vs Hugo, but tested also against dhalsim, jin, Kuma...

If somebody wants to do something with Lili, feel free to take this combo (or a part of) for your CMV, if you need it.

[Pokey86]

So does the last hit of Ryu's Shin-Sho remove JP? from what error said Counter hit moves are JP 99 but even they don't hit after shin sho.

I've got plenty of Cammy/Akuma team combos, match applicable ones*, but no means to record... Might have to buy one of those expensive PVR's soon.

*I s'pose most combos are match applicable in this game.

[error1]

So does the last hit of Ryu's Shin-Sho remove JP? from what error said Counter hit moves are JP 99 but even they don't hit after shin sho.

so the last hit adds 7 if the first hit whiffs, or 4 if you hit with the first hit. That's if you juggle with it though, I haven't figured out how juggle starters work. It seems most moves don't add any jp on juggle start, but I haven't figured out where the exceptions are listed.

[Snoooootch]

So hitting sim's limbs with a launcher to send him higher in the air removes all juggle capability. Basically, even as anti air, or on counter hit, if you hit an opponent with a launcher while they're in the air. Not even like a super or something. nothing seems to restart jp.

On a good note, I found some really high ground bounces that make law go through the opponent while he's in the ground. Looks trippy.

[CPS2]

So hitting sim's limbs with a launcher to send him higher in the air removes all juggle capability. Basically, even as anti air, or on counter hit, if you hit an opponent with a launcher while they're in the air. Not even like a super or something. nothing seems to restart jp.

On a good note, I found some really high ground bounces that make law go through the opponent while he's in the ground. Looks trippy.

Does tagging out work?

[Snoooootch]

Nope, nothing adds jp, like, at all. I've found nothing so far works.

[error1]

Think I know why this might be, but I can't check it at the moment. I suspect it's not a matter of juggle potential at all.

[Doopliss]

Btw, did anyone notice that Quick combo 5 is a character's trial 20? How lame is that?

In other news, I just beat Vega's trial 20, am I awesome or what!?

[Snoooootch]

Hahaha, yeah, I noticed. It IS kinda lame. I haven't tried everyone's trials yet. Only the characters I've been doing combo videos for, but I hope to finish them all.

Anyway, I did that combo with 3 taunts in it. For real, that's the hardest combo I've ever had to do. It took me way too long to think of it, then as I tried it, I though of a way to make Hwoarang dash under mid combo TWICE, then I spent the rest of the time timing the taunts. The hardest one was Law's taunt. You have to let him run all the way in when you tag him, or else he can't reach Hugo for the ground bounce. BUT, if you wait too long to taunt, Law's hits will just whiff. Hwoarang's first taunt was hard too, till I figured out that I could just tag in on the first hit, let him dash all the way in like Law, Taunt, then dash forward in time to do a st. hk for the SADC dash under. The worst part was making Hugo land in front of Hwoarang. At times Hugo would fly past him, and at other times, he would be too close to the corner to bounce back. It was just a hard combo over all. OH YEAH, and then the very last part after Hwoarang's last taunt, I did cr. mp to hk tatsu. It was hard to catch Hugo with it, cause the hit box on the cr. mp is kinda small, and active for very little. AND, if I used cr. mk, Hwoarang would somehow appear behind Hugo, kicking in the opposite direction. It was effin hard!

[Doopliss]

Personally I've been playing around a little with Asuka. She has some insane no-meter damage potential. Her combos are basically "heavy heavy special heavy heavy special heavy"...