Challenge 03: Meaty Move Manipulation Marathon

Maj · Post by **Maj** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:27 am

For this challenge, post a video clip of a CvS2 combo utilizing a meaty setup. If you don't know what "meaty" means, i've defined it here.

Rule #1: You can only post one submission per period. The first period will span two weeks, starting Wednesday 9/12 and ending 11:59PM PST Tuesday 9/24. Every period after that will be one week long, again starting Wednesday and ending 11:59PM PST the following Tuesday.

Rule #2: You can not repeat a meaty setup which has already been submitted.

Now, i'm sure there are going to be some close calls regarding uniqueness, with different setups being really similar to one another. In order to avoid constructing a bunch of useless convoluted rules, i'm going to judge them myself on a case by case basis. So if i decide that your setup is too similar to someone else's, then it's not going to count. If that happens, you'll have one extra 48-hour window to submit another clip, even if the period has expired.

During the first and second periods, each accepted submission will be worth half a point. Starting from the third period, each submission will be worth one point. I figure by the time we get to the third period, most of the obvious setups will be eliminated so it will be more challenging to claim an unused one.

The combo itself will not be graded, but you do have to combo something after the meaty attack for it to count. Beyond that, it's up to you how flashy you want to make it. You can use the same exact combo every week if you want.

Those of you who don't play CvS2 and don't know much about the nuances of the CvS2 combo engine: Give it a shot anyway. You can definitely get by on fundamental SF knowledge alone.

Alright guys, get to work. I want to see more training mode meaty attacks than a Rocky pre-fight montage.

Magnetro · Post by **Magnetro** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:54 am

i heard omni and choi have been waiting for this one =X

ZenFire · Post by **ZenFire** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:55 am

what constitutes a setup? anything and everything that happens before the meaty? Does it have to be perfect to the frame? Should it be easily repeatable? I'm guessing shoto sweep, walk up meaty c.mp doesn't count...

Magnetro · Post by **Magnetro** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:20 am

ZenFire wrote:what constitutes a setup? anything and everything that happens before the meaty? Does it have to be perfect to the frame? Should it be easily repeatable? I'm guessing shoto sweep, walk up meaty c.mp doesn't count...

fuck you, that's all i know how to do, unless choi or omni can help...

Maj · Post by **Maj** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:35 pm

ZenFire wrote:I'm guessing shoto sweep, walk up meaty c.mp doesn't count...

It does count ... but only once. As soon as someone uses a knockdown as a meaty setup, nobody else is allowed to use that method again.

The combo itself doesn't have to be easy, doesn't have to be practical, doesn't have to be difficult. The only requirement is for the meaty setup to be essential to the combo. In other words, you can do meaty c.MP, far s.HP but you can't do meaty c.MP, c.MK because the latter works as a non-meaty.

Mike Z · Post by **Mike Z** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:18 pm

Maj wrote:
ZenFire wrote:As soon as someone uses a knockdown as a meaty setup, nobody else is allowed to use that method again.

I realize you said you weren't posting rules, but you posted this one so...since only the setup matters, how pedantic is this going to get? :^)
Is "a knockdown" different from Delayed Getup which is different from Safe Fall?
Is Counter Roll different from normal Roll which is different from Dodging? Are f/b Counter Rolls different?
Is Safe Fall in different grooves different?
Is short jump landing on something different from normal jump landing on something different from a whiffed DP landing on something?
Are different fireballs different, or is it just "a fireball"? (Is Choi a fireball?)
Is a knockdown that you can Safe Fall from different from one you can't? (Haohmaru's throw, thanks ZenFire!) Is an air knockdown different from a ground knockdown?
Nobody can repeat a setup. Does this mean...let's say you find out that if (for example) Bison jumps and lands behind Guile on the last frame of a Guile c.Fierce that hits backwards, it will hit meaty, and this is the only time that Guile c.Fierce hits meaty backwards. But OH NOES! someone already used jump-behind land on Blanka electricity in the first five minutes of the contest, so you're SOL? In other words, does the moves involved as the meaty also constitute part of the setup?

Feel free not think about these until they come up. (^.^)
Mike Z

Maj · Post by **Maj** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 6:46 pm

Actually, what you quoted wasn't a rule, it was an example. And my simple solution to the problems you've presented is that this contest is going to be judged by a human, me.

So you're totally free to walk the very thin line between using a normal knockdown and a Delayed Getup knockdown. However, you are taking the risk that i'll find them too similar and reject the submission - in which case, you'll have wasted your time executing and capturing it. Now if you manage to do something with a Delayed Getup that can't be done with a normal knockdown, then i'll probably accept it.

I think all of this provides enough incentive for people to lean towards going in clearly different directions. At least until the majorly divergent things have been exhausted and everyone is forced to dig through the subtle stuff.

It all comes down to being creative. The main question between two similar setups is going to be: Does the second setup contain a significant creative difference or is it an obvious copy/adaptation/ripoff?

fullmetalross · Post by **fullmetalross** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:39 am

I can't capture from my ps2! oh knows. Who wants to be my partner and I'll tell them a super secret one right now?

Super secret in that I thought of it just now, and I'm bored and don't know if anyone will remember it.

Robyrt · Post by **Robyrt** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 12:04 pm

Having traded in my copy of CvS2, I look forward to watching everybody else's submissions.

Meaty moves in OMF 2097 often have totally different properties than the regular moves, or can be used in unexpected ways:

Nova's fierce (a quick uppercut) knocks down only as a meaty attack.
Katana's slide kick will actually move backward as a meaty attack.
Nova's Earthquake Smash will often completely miss, because it hits only opponents on the ground and you have 1 frame of invincibility on wakeup.
Thorn's roundhouse will pause when it hits as a meaty attack, meaning you STILL can't link anything after it. Worst move in the game? Pretty much.
One weird way to get a move to hit meaty: Hit an opponent who's in their "I just got stunned" animation.

Maj · Post by **Maj** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:21 pm

Katana slides backwards? Haha, how does that work?

Vega Omega · Post by **Vega Omega** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 12:46 am

damn, where are all the submissions!!?? this should be easy. I'm unable to record at the moment, due to my computer and I being seperated until Tuesday.

ZenFire · Post by **ZenFire** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:03 pm

I don't expect ot win lol, but at this rate being the first submission, I just might!
http://www.drakenslag.com/temp/meaty%20ass.avi

Maj · Post by **Maj** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:46 pm

Sweet, that counts. King's c.MP is only +1 HA so it has to be done meaty to link c.MK afterwards. You've earned half a point and you can't submit another clip until this period is over, on the 25th. I'll add everyone's points to the score at the end of each period.

Since you used RC Taunt, from now on nobody can use RC special moves as a setup for the rest of this contest.

Well, that's not entirely true. I guess someone could come up with some super creative way of using an RC special move as a setup, but it would have to be categorically different from this.

Magnetro · Post by **Magnetro** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:32 pm

ZenFire wrote:I don't expect ot win lol, but at this rate being the first submission, I just might!
http://www.drakenslag.com/temp/meaty%20ass.avi

Over my dead body!

http://www.zachd.com/magnetro/letsseejo ... isx264.avi

Special Thanks: maj for showing me the true potential of guile

Maj · Post by **Maj** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:26 pm

Tight, hahaha. Ok so now we've got the basic knockdown setup out of the way. Ryu's close s.MK has only +1 HA and his s.LP has 2 ST, so this combo requires a meaty setup. I'll add your half point on the 25th as well. Thanks for participating.

ShinjiGohan · Post by **ShinjiGohan** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:32 am

I'd partake but I just don't see any other type of setup that hasn't been used.

As now all knockdowns are out.

And now all moves that you connect at the end of an invincibility window are out.

Hitting rolls don't count cause you're hitting them when they're inside you thus you have a longer reach for more links/combos.

Thus its done.

-edit- I guess landing on an extended attack is still in.

http://www.streetfighterex.info/meaty1.avi

there now nothing is left :-p

jchensor · Post by **jchensor** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:09 am

Come on guys, let's flex our brains a little here. I have a ton of ideas, but here's my first one for this week:

http://www.lowfierce.com/ztemp/chen/mea ... tack01.wmv

Enjoy! ^_^

(That's a Strong Fireball, by the way. A Jab one works non-Meaty from that distance, but a Strong one for sure does not.)

- James

Magnetro · Post by **Magnetro** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:43 pm

jchensor wrote:Come on guys, let's flex our brains a little here. I have a ton of ideas, but here's my first one for this week:

http://www.lowfierce.com/ztemp/chen/mea ... tack01.wmv

Enjoy! ^_^

(That's a Strong Fireball, by the way. A Jab one works non-Meaty from that distance, but a Strong one for sure does not.)

- James

Dang. So I guess that takes out 'while rising' setups?

Maj · Post by **Maj** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:34 pm

Sweet. Both of those count.

ShinjiGohan's setup works by hitting an airborne opponent and using their invincible air reel frames to make them land on a meaty attack. Pretty clever. So that method is off the list now. Since Ryu's c.MP gives him +6 HA and his far s.HP has 7 ST, this qualifies as a meaty combo.

In jchensor's setup, Dhalsim's c.HP makes him duck under Ryo's MP fireball to delay impact, making it meaty. Then Ryo links into a lvl3 rush super. I can't break this down with frame data, but he said he's tested it so i'll take his word for it. I'm not sure that it takes out all while rising setups, but it certainly does rule out most of 'em. Btw the RC on Ryo's FB was a nice touch.

omni · Post by **omni** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:39 pm

I tried a few different setups before I got this one to work:

http://www.lowfierce.com/omni/ShotoShotoMeatyShoryu.mpg

Which is basically a 'meaty' strong dp in the sense that it's all about spacing to get the tip of it to hit which allows level 2 kick super to link. From there it's level 2 cancel to whiff hurricane kick - then standing fierce into super.

I had another combo but I'm pretty sure it's no longer valid:

Meaty Jab DP (which pops them up higher than usual), level 2 kick super xx jab dp, level 1 kick super.

You can do short short level 2 fireball super, blue fireball, level 1 kick super. So I was trying to get the combo to really be:

Meaty Jab DP, level 2 kick super xx blue fireball, level 1 kick super but shit just wasn't working out what so ever.

Hopefully my submission is valid.

Maj · Post by **Maj** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:09 pm

Definitely valid. That setup hasn't been used before and obviously the lvl2 Hurricane Kick super wouldn't connect off a standard point blank MP DP. Well, that entry rules out the method of using distance to delay contact, including for example doing Bison's slide from max distance to link lvl3 Psycho Crusher super.

Magnetro · Post by **Magnetro** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:26 am

So people don't fall asleep watching new cvs2 videos, I recorded and old Doom FSD setup made by Joo.

http://www.zachd.com/magnetro/olddoomfsd_x264.avi

jchensor · Post by **jchensor** » Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:51 am

Ummm... why are you putting MvC2 clips into this thread? That seemed awfully pointless.

- James

Maj · Post by **Maj** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:26 am

First period is now over. Everyone who has already submitted a clip may submit a second entry. Everyone else is welcome to join in as well. From here on, every period is going to be a week long. Points from the first period have been posted.

Hail And Kill · Post by **Hail And Kill** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:01 am

http://www.lowfierce.com/zrandom/cvs2-sagat-01-hak.mpg

This video shows sakura walking into sagat's c.short which has already been out(which makes it meaty), and then linked into a c.fierce.
Thanks to maj for recording!

-Gene

Maj · Post by **Maj** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 2:18 am

It was a really cool idea. Thanks for contributing it to this thread. It's definitely a meaty-only combo cuz Sagat's c.LK normally results in +5 HA while his c.HP has 7 ST. Also i'm pretty sure the meaty version is a one-frame link cuz it took me a lot of time to get it working. I'll add half a point to your score at the end of this period.

The first thing i tried was picking Sakura in Training Mode, with Sagat as the dummy opponent. Then i used the Dummy Record feature to have Sagat do c.LK, c.HP as close as possible (obviously it didn't combo). Then i played that back, while trying to walk into it using Sakura. Tried like 50 times, got it to work once.

In the end i decided to use program pads instead, and make the ending a little fancier. Here's the scripts for both players, though i'm sure nobody really cares. Btw, they only worked like 1 out of 10+ tries. Most of the time either the c.LK whiffed or the c.HP was blockable.

Code: Select all

 1st Player           2nd Player
001) 005 - null      001) 071 - null
002) 001 - UL        002) 001 - D+LK
003) 035 - null      003) 018 - null
004) 045 - R         004) 001 - D+HP
005) 003 - null      005) 002 - null
006) 150 - DL        006) 001 - D
007) 006 - null      007) 001 - DL
                     008) 001 - L
                     009) 001 - D
                     010) 001 - DL+MP
                     011) 069 - null
                     012) 001 - LK+Start
                     013) 005 - null

It was fun implementing it and i wish i had more time to record random ideas, but unfortunately i simply don't. For example, recording this took me all morning.

fullmetalross · Post by **fullmetalross** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:10 am

Heyyy that was cool...

So I'm gonna post a video!!! wow. Anyways here you guys go, I think this is still correct even though it scores a counter hit. I don't think sagat's cr.fp links to his cr.rh on normal counterhit so blah anywayss clip

http://web.pdx.edu/~koehl/stuff/lvl1-meaty.avi

ShinjiGohan · Post by **ShinjiGohan** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:07 am

Hail And Kill wrote:http://www.lowfierce.com/zrandom/cvs2-sagat-01-hak.mpg

This video shows sakura walking into sagat's c.short which has already been out(which makes it meaty), and then linked into a c.fierce.
Thanks to maj for recording!

-Gene

Dang, got my idea...

Maj · Post by **Maj** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:56 am

I'm gonna accept FMR's clip too. It's kinda similar to ZenFire's clip but i think it's different enough to count. Sagat's c.HP gives +2 HA and his c.HK has 7 ST, so the meaty setup is definitely necessary. According to the CvS2 Systems FAQ by buktooth, counterhit bonus on fierce adds an extra +4 HA, which is still two frames short of what you'd need to link c.HK without a meaty setup.

laugh · Post by **laugh** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:18 am

I made this few months ago and couple of people saw it already. Here's mine.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=HH0VB4LJ