SSF4:AE Combo Engine Investigation

[error1]

Urien is pretty mid tier in 3s. He can be really explosive but he just has to work way to hard for a win

[Pokey86]

Why are people bitching about balance in AE when 3S is such a lopsided game... Just going by tier lists of course. It seems that Yun/Chun/Ken are the only ones who hold a candle.

I'll have it soon, so that'll be fun i think, i resent them for not releasing it (properly) in England.

[error1]

it's hard to compare them by looking at the tier lists now beacuse the game is 14 years old, and ae isn't even a year old yet
you have to consider that the yuns and yangs are playing 3 month yuns vs 3 year akumas, so I would expect the top characters to get better if the game was allowed to develop ( it's not )

[onReload]

Urien is pretty mid tier in 3s. He can be really explosive but he just has to work way to hard for a win

He was considered mid/low until they found out about unblockable shenanigans, that put him a bit higher up; he's also not a great matchup for Chun since he can actually out poke her and do a more painful juggle combo on her/Makoto/Urien/Elena.

Just going by tier lists of course. It seems that Yun/Chun/Ken are the only ones who hold a candle.

They each have things that make them pretty gross (and therefore top-tier, though many would argue that only Yun/Chun belong, with Ken trailing), but popular high tier also includes Dudley, Makoto, Ryu, Akuma (the Japanese players would also include Yang)...but mid-tier is where all the fun is!

/end fanboyism

[onReload]

Did anyone figure anything out about t.hawk's U2 uncombo? (discovered by Doopliss here

I was messing around a bit and got to ramblin':

So, we know that when a character enters the second half of the crumple animation, they're totally airborne - as though they just jumped into the air. This is because regular air grabs like Guile's and Vega's work, and also because super/ultra grabs like Oni's and Zangiefs do too; not one of these works if you FA3 an airborne opponent, because they're in a "Float" state, not plain-old "airborne". It also can't trade or connect with outstretched limbs (like El Fuerte's/Abel's AA grab)

So, although I've heard someone say that they made T.Hawk's Ultra 2 a "hit" (I'm not very familiar with SSF4 mechanics), it clearly can't be. As I mentioned in a previous post, if you set the dummy to "Counterhit: ON" and do the following combo (Focus attack, dash, U2), you can get a "Counterhit" Focus, then a "Counterhit" U2 - but the second Counterhit message only comes up during the part where T.Hawk throws the opponent at the ground; this would indicate to me that it starts as a grab, then adds hits (in order to increment the combo counter and stuff). So what's with the hitsparks on the first hit? They're just there for the effect? Or does the first "hit/grab" possess some totally unique properties?

[Pokey86]

I'm guessing it's a unique property, perhaps it forces them high enough to be hit by the throw, however in doing this it resets them in airborne for the ultra to connect. (As it can't hit float state)

[Doopliss]

I'm guessing it's a unique property, perhaps it forces them high enough to be hit by the throw, however in doing this it resets them in airborne for the ultra to connect. (As it can't hit float state)

My guess is that the first hit of the ultra causes one frame of standing, neutral position or something, which wasn't noticable when you couldn't combo into it, but now you can notice it. Has anyone tried doing a reversal while getting hit by it? Also, it seems that by whiffing the first active frame, you can get it to combo normally, like I did in my CV.

[Doopliss]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGYNa1ArDPU

as you can see here, you can trade an Air Slasher with Adon's Super to combo into s.MK... Would it be possible to cancel that s.MK into another charge special using the same charge as the Air Slasher with some clever buffering? I also wonder what happens if you get KO'd by Adon's Super in this situation, what happens if you KO Adon, or if the CH trade is a double KO.

[Maj]

Double Final TAP trade?

[Doopliss]

Does TAP cause CH on Balrog on trade? Then it might be possible I guess... if you start at above 0 stun.

[error1]

o into s.MK... Would it be possible to cancel that s.MK into another charge special using the same charge as the Air Slasher with some clever buffering? I also wonder what happens if you get KO'd by Adon's Super in this situation, what happens if you KO Adon, or if the CH trade is a double KO.

I don't think you can get double boom this way, beacuse you can't be near a corner and trading reduces the amount of time you have to charge.

Ko and dizzy hit stun is different then regular hit stun, jabs cause like +50fa on ko for example, so it's probable won't do the same thing

[Maj]

Wait, i'm not even sure i understand what's going on. These deliberately mysterious videos are starting to get annoying. At first i thought that the third hit of Adon's super failed to cause hitstun, so it was like you had Juggernaut armor. That's not the case? It just causes really short hitstun?

[error1]

it causes the opponent's hit stun to be a 5mk on counter hit
you can see it here
http://i51.tinypic.com/ev2fs9.png

[Doopliss]

Wait, i'm not even sure i understand what's going on. These deliberately mysterious videos are starting to get annoying. At first i thought that the third hit of Adon's super failed to cause hitstun, so it was like you had Juggernaut armor. That's not the case? It just causes really short hitstun?

3rd hit of Adon's HP super, on counterhit only, causes the opponent to do s.MK (or far s.MP apparently) automatically instead of entering hit-stun.

http://biffotasty.blogspot.com/2011/08/ ... n-bug.html

[Maj]

Thanks, i understand better now. Seems far less useful/controllable than i originally thought. But who knows, might end up enabling some broken stuff.

[onReload]

I think Doopliss' video showed it the best way with DeeJay/Rose; it's like Dudley's Rose toss interrupt in that it cancels your attack with minimal recovery...So it might be worth a link or two.

[Maj]

Um, i don't think that's what's happening. This phenomenon only occurs when the third hit of Adon's HP super connects as a counterhit, and it triggers an automatic reaction that you have very little influence over.

Seems like Doopliss found a special case where certain characters are still vulnerable to counterhits for one or two frames after they've created their fireballs, so the third hit of Adon's HP super triggers a medium attack from them in addition to the fireball. But it's not like you can do whatever you want. You're basically stuck with whatever medium attack they automatically perform.

[Doopliss]

Indeed. Guile has a hard time with this since his s.MK is -1 on hit and not cancellable, but maybe he can get it to work with his far s.MP, which is special cancelable.

[onReload]

I know it's a very special case, that's why I said it might be worth a "link or two."...and I'm hoping that via other factors, you can get a different normal out of characters. Yeah, it's not gonna lead to too much (not like anyone would want to watch a CV where every combo starts with Adon purring from across the screen) but who knows?

[Rufus]

I know it's a very special case, that's why I said it might be worth a "link or two."...and I'm hoping that via other factors, you can get a different normal out of characters. Yeah, it's not gonna lead to too much (not like anyone would want to watch a CV where every combo starts with Adon purring from across the screen) but who knows?

Do counterhit double hits do anything interesting?

[Smileymike101]

I figured i should use the fact that sagat can get coutnerhited during the startup of tiger shot, but still make it come out, so i recorded a couple of Adon glitch combos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGIDeh201Dg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWAgyGn4gfs
Dibs?

[Pokey86]

Second combo is ace

[Doopliss]

Nice, didn't know tiger shot had that property as well.

[onReload]

That second one is awesome - looks like you got some good quality going - gonna start putting a video together, mike?

[Smileymike101]

Yes, the footage capturing process is almost ready.Then Snoooootch will help me edit it and his friend Mikey will make custom music for it.

[Raine]

Nice combos Mike!

So, what happens when two Adon's collide at the same time, counterhitting each other?

[error1]

normally when there is a trade it doesn't count as a counter hit
rose far lk and some projectiles are all weird cases where you can counter hit and trade

[Maj]

Dee Jay can't use Double Rolling Sobat while a fireball is on the screen? Wtf why?

[Rufus]

normally when there is a trade it doesn't count as a counter hit

IIRC supers tend to be armor breakers, so double-hit with anything that has EX armor - like focus attacks - should work.

[Smileymike101]

Dee Jay can't use Double Rolling Sobat while a fireball is on the screen? Wtf why?

Haha, maj, i encountered the SAME problem a few days ago (snoooootch can testify).i wanted seth to tandem me out of a sonic boom, then i would do a rolling sobat to push him in, but surprise, it doesn't lol.So strange, considering he can do the ULTRA version of double sobat....