Are you self-conscious about your videos?

[CPS2]

In Sydney people seem really ignorant to combo videos, or even strategy discussion, combo exploration, anything aside from "I'm good, these people are good, these people suck," etc. I'm pretty much over it all. The loudest voices are still talking about mashing DP being scrubby / legit, or whether or not it's even worth knowing combos, links, juggles etc. I'm certain that the best players are also good at finding original stuff, you definitely see Daigo, Justin Wong etc with new combos that nobody else is doing, and I've been trying to stress that you don't reach that level by x-copying easy stuff. Unfortunately our top players (aside from Toxy) are just self confessed dickriders because it's good enough to win tourneys in our small scene. I'm done with all of it, but it's hard not to care after all the time I've put into the community.

What sort of put me over the edge was hearing people that I considered friends talking about the "Simply Viewtiful" video that Isorropia and I made. They were basically saying how knowing the combo system is pointless because if you have 3 characters and x-factor, you can do 100% combos with MMHS. And if it was a joke, it certainly wasn't funny after having the same discussion with the same group of people for over a month, where I would say "what if you have one character left? what if you've already used x-factor? what if you want to combo into a snap-back?" etc, and they'd simply reply with "you and Iso haven't won any mvc3 tourneys."

Not everyone has that attitude but there's so many of them, for what is such a small scene. And if it's not issues like that, I'm getting annoyed at people for other reasons, and hardly any new players are coming into the scene. So I'm pretty much done with it (haven't stopped playing fighting games, just going to meets), at least until some new games take over, and then I'll just see what the community looks like and if it's grown past that stuff.

Kindof a long post but yeah, i think it depends on who is saying it. I don't play fighting games just to win or just to be a troll, which seem like the only acceptable reasons in the local community, so they really suck the fun out of it for me.

[Tigre III]

-I love to play training mode.
-training mode? to play ALONE??? hahahahaha...
That is the common answer when people ask me about my videogames preferences. And that is the difference between "usual" players and combomakers, we love to find/execute combos (bring the engine to the limit), and they love to win in vs games. Of course i love to play online too, but not only. When some of my xboxlive friends say "Combomaker? ha, lets go to play vs" i just say "ok, no problem". And sometimes, they have some surprises...
Which is the essence of the fighting games? I guess the vs mode, ok... But im sure that, if the combomakers does not exist, players like Daigo, Tokido, Mago etc etc would not do so many "epic battles"...
We are a necessary part of the fighting game community, like the casual players, the pro players, the web masters, journal editors...
We heard the news thanks to the community, we have fun playing online thanks to the other players, and players learn how to do more damage or play more effectively thanks to us. The pity is that not everyone realizes that, even have some players who do not understand what is our role ... And as to post your opinion is for free in internet, they written comments that clearly leave them like fools ...
We hare going to post a combo with 26 hard tags, and does the same damage like 2 hard punches and one lvl3 Super... Im pretty sure that a lot of people will say: "useless!"... And its true. But if you cannot appreciate why we do it...

[Pokey86]

What exactly did your friend say, if you don't mind us asking?

It stretched a little longer, but this is the gist of it. It's from memory but it's a bit skewed. I mean he's a good bloke, we're not against each other now.

Bloke: You gonna play RA3 anytime soon, you were pretty good at one point, you suck now & your VODS ruled, shit that you've stopped doin'em

Me: ehh, i did love it but when i joined Replays there was to much pressuring me to make more vids, deadlines & shit like that! If i don't enjoy making them why would i want to keep doing it. I loved the VOD's. Besides anyone can do my vods, just find a match with two pro's & swear alot

Bloke: Fair doo's, so what are you playing these days.

Me: SSFIV mainly, can't really vod that though, goes to fast.

Bloke: Yeah i checked that vid you told me about a while ago, was nice. (Blokes doesn't play fighters much)

Me: Well... I'm working on a mechanics guide at the moment, kinda like that guide i did about the various forms of Leech beam & IFV guide.

Bloke: yeah that was cool, but pretty pointless.

Me: Yeah, i only did it cause i fucked about in Skirmish.

--> insert random bullshit chat here including some details about my guide, some of his victories etc<--

Bloke: why you doing this guide then? I mean you must be in training mode forever just doing the same move over & over right?

Me: Yeah, something like that.

Bloke: But you said all the top players do most of these wierd combos anyway right?

Me: Not exactly... But there are kinda like, standard combos that people know work

Bloke: what's the point then? If people are doing this stuff anyway.

Me: of what? Doing the guide... So i can figure out what can be done against a juggled opponent, might help someones game, might find something cool. (Already have) besides i get annoyed when i see something in a game i play & don't get why it works. Besides i find it interesting.

Bloke: How long you been working on it

Me: Couple of weeks

Bloke: DAMN! it better be good

Me: Hopefully.

Bloke: lol, you know what'll happen, SSFIV Patch 1.5 will come out & fuck up all your work

Me: Nah, they'll make another game, you know what capcom are like we'll end up with super hyper with sprinkles or something.

---> It trails off from there.

[Maj]

I'm done with all of it, but it's hard not to care after all the time I've put into the community.

The first video i made was a CvS2 Chun Li strategy guide because i wanted to get more people into CvS2. It was well-received and basically a success, although on a much smaller scale than what you guys are used to with SF4. My second video was a CvS2 Randomness compilation made for the same purpose, to show that CvS2 had more interesting stuff in it than people realized. That got positive feedback too.

My third project was a CvS2 Guile combovid which was essentially a love letter to three or four specific people. That was the point i started getting into nuances that took way too much time for anyone outside of our small group to care about or appreciate. The video itself got a positive community response, so negativity was never the issue. But it was pretty obvious that most people didn't really understand what makes Guile tick - nor the CvS2 combo system as a whole. I'm sure everyone here has had that same feeling about some aspect of fighting games.

I think it's very, very important to make combo videos accessible and make it easy for the rest of the community to enjoy them. That's the main reason i write transcripts and try to edit videos in a way that shows as much of the setup as possible. If some complete stranger brings up a totally valid complaint about one of my videos, i'll try to fix it next time. Or if they ask a question, i always answer it (unless it's on u2b in which case it's just gonna get asked again as soon as it scrolls off the front page). Or if they're completely wrong about something, i care enough to try to clear up the confusion.

But at the end of the day, the only responses i actually look forward to and pay attention to are the ones from other combo makers, most of whom are already on sh/f. I mean, my family and my (non-gamer) friends mean a lot to me, but do i care about what they have to say about my videos? Not really. It's cool when they see a clip they like and genuinely enjoy it, but otherwise i know they don't really understand what they're looking at.

And i don't need their compliments to make me feel good about my videos, so i generally avoid talking about my hobby with anyone outside sh/f. At this point i've basically stopped caring what my tournament heroes (Valle, Watson, Viscant, etc.) have to say about my combos. Even the way i approach u2b, it's mostly like i'm playing firefighter and trying to conserve water (meaning time). You know, like put out the small fires before they become big fires. Or if let them burn out if there's no danger of them becoming big fires. Sometimes i miscalculate, but whatever, it happens.

[onReload]

It's been said many times for many things, but the most important person to please in any hobby/job etc. is yourself. If you always bank on positive feedback, you're going to end up disappointed a lot of the time, because only the creator - you - can truly know your own goals. Obviously, (another thing that's been said a lot) yes, outside opinion matters; it's not like I encourage anyone to sit around and make fun combos by themselves and never show it to anyone - I make myself laugh/raise an eyebrow in training mode, but I still need to make a public video to feel like I've done something productive - even if only a small amount of people care.

I mean adaki (or adakino), famous combo maker if you haven't checked him out via ComboVid or some YT channels, does videos like this, that are too obscure/unsettling for even Maj* to put up, but he must have some reason to make 'em...and I got some entertainment out of it - not enough to praise him on individual nuances like how I gush over every new SFIII:3S video, but I still found it interesting.

Hell, even if I make a negative comment like "ahh I wish you let that clip keep going," I probably still enjoyed your video overall. I can imagine that the people who watch vids and go "BORING STUPID TRAINING MODE ONLY WHO CAERS" are probably still thinking "that was kinda cool though" at certain points - and I mean that.

*btw Maj I think you missed the "adakino" tag on a few of his videos, only three of his show up in the video archive and I could swear you posted his Dominated Mind vid as well as one or two others.

[Doopliss]

It's been said many times for many things, but the most important person to please in any hobby/job etc. is yourself. If you always bank on positive feedback, you're going to end up disappointed a lot of the time, because only the creator - you - can truly know your own goals.

Thing is, I kinda do. For example, my Crouching Wrestler, Hidden Potential video. Long story short, it bombed. Still bothers me to this day. Other videos that bother me for the same reason is my Balrog trial video (even though I knew it wouldn't get close to any attention) and my 2nd Koryu CV. I guess I'm just kind of an attention whore sometimes though.

[Maj]

btw Maj I think you missed the "adakino" tag on a few of his videos, only three of his show up in the video archive and I could swear you posted his Dominated Mind vid as well as one or two others.

Nope, i've only posted a couple of his vids and never posted that old Fatal Fury video. Still waiting for him to make some new stuff.

Long story short, it bombed.

Two things. First off, eight thousand views is not bombing. Try making a CvS1 or SFA2 video sometime and see how far that gets you. I'm telling you, 5000+ views for a fighting game combo video is not normal. SF4 has distorted everything to the point of utter absurdity. If you allow yourself to buy into SF4-era numbers as the norm, you're gonna have a very unpleasant awakening the next time the fighting game genre falls into obscurity.

Secondly, if your definition of success/failure depends on views, then you're putting the decision into the hands of three specific individuals: SRK news guy, eventhubs guy, and iplaywinner guy - all three of whom are absolutely clueless when it comes to judging top tier combovids. If you want to "succeed" by their standards, save yourself the headache and stick to making day-one videos full of obvious combos.

The "refined" combo video audience is inherently very small. Making a great video and getting a lot of views are totally different things. Sometimes they coincide but only by coincidence.

[Keiko]

Try making a CvS1 or SFA2 video sometime and see how far that gets you.

Man... those are the 2 holy sacred games of my life haha.

And Doop, do u wanna se how much people is 8k people? just take a look at this:
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af20 ... nhagen.jpg
Your video was great pal and I really liked it a lot (and i'm not a SFIV-Friendly person), views doesn't really matters, me personally, don't give a fuck about them and what other random eventscrub users thinks about it, i'll do the videos for myself, i only "care" or take in consideration what other combo makers have to say/criticise about the video i made, i really keep in mind some tips and critics that other combo people told me to produce a "better" vid in the future, but the rest? fuck them all.
If my video helps others people to find new stuff, get better in their game or whatever... that's great! but views and what a Youtube troll have to say it pointless to me... and that's why i always have the comment disabled from my vids... i don't want that my vid get filled with trolling, stupid questions like "wich music i used" or "it's that mugen?" n' shit... no ... no way, if somebody really feels the need of asking me something in particular about a combo or a glitch they'll use the youtube pm feature or they leave a comment in my blog... and that's it, i've been working in that way for years now and works perfect for me.

[Don Vecta]

Long story short, it bombed.

LOL, then every of the videos I've pulled out are not worth the shit under your soles. Man, sometimes the big or small audience you get and the "likes" or the small praises (that sound authentic) and even the criticisms that are CONSTRUCTIVE (i weed out away those scrub competitive versus shit away) and also how happy you feel about it it's more than enough.

[Maj]

Bloke: You gonna play RA3 anytime soon, you were pretty good at one point, you suck now :P & your VODS ruled, shit that you've stopped doin'em

In fairness to Bloke, it sounds like his whole objective was to get you back into making more RA3 VODs. I don't think he took the time to understand your SF4 videos and why you were making them. Seems like he was mostly looking for the simplest way to argue that you'd be better off making more of what he liked. Not that i can blame him, but you have to that angle into consideration as well.

Btw do you mind if i merge your thread into this old thread? It's the same exact subject, but it keeps coming up every once in a while (not surprisingly).

[onReload]

For example, my Crouching Wrestler, Hidden Potential video. Long story short, it bombed. Still bothers me to this day.

This is actually kinda ironic 'cause I was watching this yesterday and thought, "hmm, why do I not remember this one? it's really good" or something along those lines. I did the same thing with your match highlights vid, after all those FUNNY SFIV moments vids came out, i realized it was better. maybe it's like a fine wine.

[Doopliss]

Well, it got about 1000-2000 views until I, months later, put it up on SRK, and I think I got Eventhubs to post it too. Currently: Yes, it has quite a decent amount of views. Thing is, the video before that got around 60,000 views quite quickly (Because it randomly became one of the top results when you searched for "Street Fighter"), of course I'm gonna be disappointed when my 2nd video (which is better imo), only gets around 3% of that. The fact that I had to rerecord everything because I accidentally deleted everything didn't make me feel better about it either. However, the release date kinda tells the whole story, I guess I was a fool to think people would be very interested in a SFIV CV when SSFIV was released the day before.

And I know I shouldn't care about stuff like views, but frankly, I can't help it. I mean, I was even a little disappointed when my Dhalsim video "only" reached 20k views.

[Pokey86]

EDIT - Holy hell, i posted in that one to. ALOT!

how the hell do you people read my posts? I typo like a nutter, i was getting annoyed with myself just reading my own posts.

Bloke: You gonna play RA3 anytime soon, you were pretty good at one point, you suck now & your VODS ruled, shit that you've stopped doin'em

In fairness to Bloke, it sounds like his whole objective was to get you back into making more RA3 VODs. I don't think he took the time to understand your SF4 videos and why you were making them. Seems like he was mostly looking for the simplest way to argue that you'd be better off making more of what he liked. Not that i can blame him, but you have to that angle into consideration as well.

Btw do you mind if i merge your thread into this old thread? It's the same exact subject, but it keeps coming up every once in a while (not surprisingly).

you can merge them, fine by me.

I wasn't so much bothered that he didn't understand, but i did end up questioning why i was doing it all. it has given me some insights as to some better options. But in terms of usabilty, my defining of the juggle mechanics isn't as useful info as say, frame-data, not to mention it is equally confusing.

In the end i was in deeo thought trying to figure out the reason i make videos or trawl through these kind of guides. In the end i boiled it down to me simply enjoying the making of them, with a small touch of wanting feedback & a little of the fact i genuinely don't like not knowing why something works in a game.

[Maj]

For what it's worth, i like your videos. Your combovids are great and the juggle system tutorial was informative too. Although when i'm looking for juggle info, i always check your posts instead of rewatching the video. I've rewatched your combovids several times but i think i've only watched the juggle tutorial once. But it's the opposite for people who weren't already familiar with the game engine before you released that video.

[Maj]

However, the release date kinda tells the whole story, I guess I was a fool to think people would be very interested in a SFIV CV when SSFIV was released the day before.

Bingo. It's all about timing. On average, the view counts on my SF4 TACVs have been steadily declining; and it's not just because i pissed off eventhubs guy and iplaywinner guy. It's because i'm still operating on a version of the game that's two revisions behind.

Every time one of them shows up on SRK, whoever's making the post feels like they have to apologize for posting a vanilla SF4 video - which is bullshit of course, but news sites are all about staying relevant with whatever their core audience demands. (That's kind of why ComboVid exists. Because new combos in old games are just as new as new combos in new games.)

Trust me dude - if you chase after views, you'll end up with a bunch of weaksauce week-one videos that are gonna make you cringe when you rewatch them six months later. Not to mention, the whole cycle of your worst videos getting 10x more views than your best videos is gonna keep repeating.

In the end i boiled it down to me simply enjoying the making of them, with a small touch of wanting feedback & a little of the fact i genuinely don't like not knowing why something works in a game.

For what it's worth, i like your videos. Your combovids are great and the juggle system tutorial was informative too. Although when i'm looking for juggle info, i always check your posts instead of rewatching the video. I've rewatched your combovids several times but i think i've only watched the juggle tutorial once. But it's the opposite for people who weren't already familiar with the game engine before you released that video.

[Pokey86]

For what it's worth, i like your videos. Your combovids are great and the juggle system tutorial was informative too. Although when i'm looking for juggle info, i always check your posts instead of rewatching the video. I've rewatched your combovids several times but i think i've only watched the juggle tutorial once. But it's the opposite for people who weren't already familiar with the game engine before you released that video.

Yeah i remember your concerns on the Juggle guide before.

& thanks! ^_^

[Rufus]

I guess I'm self-conscious about the videos I make, but I make them for my own edification, so what other people thing isn't so important. It's a little humbling when I see stuff that I worked out through some effort in, say SSF2T in a ten year old video though.

[Snoooootch]

I'm self conscious because I don't know if people really like what I do. I get lots of back handed compliments like, "That's cool! I guess..." or "I appreciate what you do with these videos, but it's not worth it." But then I remember all the good comments and I feel better about it all.

[Doopliss]

Trust me dude - if you chase after views, you'll end up with a bunch of weaksauce week-one videos that are gonna make you cringe when you rewatch them six months later.

Yeah, I've done this once. However, it wasn't for the sake of views, it was that darn stick contest. That CV is definitely my weakest imo.

I never make my videos to get views, I just... want them anyways. I've noticed that I have a lot of self-conflicting opinions like that; I don't care about views when I make my videos, but when they're up, I really want 'em.

[Snoooootch]

This may sound sad, but the thing I want the most is to one day finally be able to make my own thumbnail art! As far as youtube videos go, anyway.

[Maj]

Yeah after they enabled longer video uploads for everyone, custom thumbnails went to the very top of my wishlist. It's a ridiculously unfair advantage for whoever has that ability - as far as i know, that's u2b partners only.

For some of my videos, i bet i could've gotten 50% more views just by having a more intriguing / impressive screenshot. That's the main thing people see on an embedded video, so that's the main reason they decide whether or not to press "Play." Instead i get an SF4 TACV index headlined by orange Ryu staring into space. So awesome.

Sadly, there's nothing we can do about it. I'd make a suggestion thread on their forums if they weren't so completely deaf to user input.

[Maj]

Speaking of informed opinions, you know what might be kind of fun? After you make a (mostly) single-character video, tracking down the best player for that character and sending them a link on twitter or whatever.

(In my experience this generally doesn't work as well as you'd think, because SoCal top players are too damn ghetto to be impressed by late-stage combovids. You might have better luck with Japanese players since their approach to fighting games is generally more technical. Plus those fools are way more accessible now than they've ever been.)

[Tsu83]

i'm one of the 'kids' brought to the community through sf4. (although my first videogame was Pong). my very first video was a gen combo video. i bought an arcade stick and wanted to show the e-friend, who convinced me to give fighting games one more try, what i can do with it. i think it were the nice comments, which surprised me, that kept me recording for another video. so i do care about what others think of my videos.
it's always nice to hear when my videos helped someone, but thats not what i make them for now. it just became a hobby to sit there and kindof meditate in training mode. and because i love editing, i record - edit - upload them. then again it's nice to get positive feedback or constructice criticism for the 'work'. specially because not a single one of my friends/family/colleagues plays fighting games, i do like to get comments and some views. even the uninformed ones.. and specially the bad ones because sometimes they are the best laughs...