MvC3 Combo Engine Investigation

[error1]

you only get one ground bounce per combo, if you try a second one they will be reset

[onReload]

is it the regular command dive kick, or the demon flip one?

[Persona]

To add to error1's post, you also get one wall bounce (I am about 90% sure you get one wall and one ground in the same combo depending on what characters have both) and after the second wall bounce, they will just fly like a normal attack. As for OTG, I believe you only get one too since if you could always OTG, then characters like Wesker could probably infinite you until hit stun decay really kicks in (I could be wrong about 1 OTG limit since I never really played a character that even had an OTG). As for hitstun decay, for ground combos it kicks in really quickly but it's much slower for air combos, and if you do a long ground combo, the hitstun will affect the air combo, but very slightly. And I believe someone already said that you get a certain amount of times when you can do a special move in the air, because after 3 air hopscotches from Trish, she can't ever pull off her super after it.

I haven't actually tested all that out, but from all my experiences when testing combos, it seems to work that way, and it also seems that each character has their own limit of hitstun decay since some have alot of one hit moves and some have alot of multi hitting move. I guess if every character had the same limit of decay, certain types of characters would be at a disadvantage.

Easier to say is, no one can watch a combo and say they can improve it, since the only way to know whether you can improve it or not is to test the combo out yourself since fitting in hits is a pain due to hitstun decay and how fast the move comes out.

This is all without assists or tags so I don't know how that would work.

IMO I think we all should make a list of what each character has (ground, wall, OTG) so it makes learning combos for them easier instead of having to read through an entire guide just to find out what each character has.

Well here's the stuff I know for the characters I play:

Haggar: jump d H (ground), dp hyper (OTG)
Trish: nothing
Ryu: rdp K (wall, the stronger the button, the farther the opponent will bounce, all 3 versions do the same damage), jp qcf hyper (OTG)

And some combos only work in level 3 XF since you recover from attacks and specials really quickly, but I'm not sure if that's worth performing in combo vids since it'll just be an excuse for viewers to say stuff like, "ew XF 3".

[Doopliss]

You can OTG indefinitely. You can loop Doom's "s.M, S, air.Mx2, air.S" like three times.

[Persona]

You can OTG indefinitely. You can loop Doom's "s.M, S, air.Mx2, air.S" like three times.

So basically OTG has no limits but is just affected normally by hitstun decay right?

[Doopliss]

well, I don't think the actual OTG "stun" is affected. But other than that, yes.

[Smileymike101]

I know you only get one ground bounce, but akuma's otg dive kick is really random.Like after only S,j.H x j.S, and it RANDOMLY resets the opponent or ground bounces them.

[Tigre III]

It is also important to note that connect after a OTG. You can use lauch, assist, normals, normal jump, hyper...And not all equally affects to de combo engine.
This game engine is not exacty like the MvC2, has important differences, but i strongly recommend to watch the Joo´s combo collection of Magnetro for the newcomers to this game engine (like me). This helped me in many ways.

[rogueyoshi]

my roommate discovered this the week before winter brawl. theres a glitch with spiderman's web ball assist that causes damage scaling, hitstun scaling, wall bounce and floor bounce to be reset, similar to the dhc glitch. i recall someone on #capcom mentioning it working with magneto's hyper grav assist too. trag has broken down how it works... it seems that if you hit the frame before they hit the floor from a ground bounce move, it will cause the unscale.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SM7u28R21sM

[CPS2]

^ Awesome glitch, plus very disturbing related videos. Win win

[Tigre III]

hahahaha, so nice!
It seems like the game engine thinks,as the ground bounce dont reach, the aerial combo continues... And do not start implementing the damage BG.

[error1]

so a spider man with two ground bounce assists can probably do a three ground bounce combo

[Tigre III]

Hey Error1 good assumption!
Maybe the glitch not only affects the damage scaling, maybe affects also the ground bounce system... Interesting stuff.

[Tigre III]

I have not seen the tragic´s DHC trick yet...
Finally an answer to my question before

Another way to test could be what happen with the THC using some special hypers like the down down AB of Wolverine, QCB AB of Arthur or similars...

Can you elaborate at all? Do you mean THC or DHC? The DHC thing has been used since MvC2, where essentially you're tagging in an opponent who is in a buffed state, and they can follow up if the last Hyper put the dummy in a juggle/other vulnerable state. If you mean THC, well...I don't know what assists would let Arthur or Wolverine do their state-changing Hypers.

I wondered what would happen if you cancel one hyper with a power up rate hyper, but I do not think I explain it right (I made a mess with the terms) ... No problem, tragic found on their own the answer, nice!

[Ultima]

"Unscale".. LOL! Man, you guys are great.

Persona re: Haggar

Standing C, last hit of qcf+C and qcf+PP all cause ground bounce as well. I think f+C causes ground bounce on aerial opponent. Oh, and regarding special states, don't forget j.U+C causes dizzy on CH.

[Persona]

Persona re: Haggar

Standing C, last hit of qcf+C and qcf+PP all cause ground bounce as well. I think f+C causes ground bounce on aerial opponent. Oh, and regarding special states, don't forget j.U+C causes dizzy on CH.

Damn, how can I forget all that, especially since I just released a video for him. >_<

Thanks for adding in the info!

[Pokey86]

here's some random shit i've learnt from my combo video escepades.

Keep in mind i've never seen an MVC vid so this could be old news, not to mention i'm relatively new.

General:

- Only one Wall bounce per combo

- Only one ground bounce per combo

- Hit stun seems to scale in this game, the longer a combo goes on the harder it is to hit the chains. I think it's hit based rather than move based. but i don't think Supers effect the scaling. (Though the scaling certainly effects recovery of supers.)

- Level 3 Supers don't seem to damage scale.

- Assists can't be triggered during specials, can be triggered during normals, even long ones like Dantes Million Stab (Crouch mash Fierce)

- I managed to get to 180 hits it said "Galactic" i maanged to get to 205 it said "Unstoppable" god knows when the dude will fall back to a default, may say different things all the way up to 999. (But doubtful) would be a good idea for a vid.

- X Factor is revoltingly powerful.

Dante

- Stinger (Forward HP) causes strong knockback on airborne, however cancelled stinger (say ground shot to stinger for example) causes Wall bounce.

- Acid Rain (QCF LP -> QCF LP) is not effected by hit stun scaling, but must hit VERY high.

- Reverb Shock (QCB LP) is not effected by hitstun scaling.

- Grapple is not effected by hitstun scaling.

- Rainstorm (Jump mash fiece) can be cancelled with K Bee (which can go to Hammer)

- Has many, many OTG moves

Cround Shot (Diag Forward + Mash Punch)
Rainstorm (Jump mash HP)
Crystal (QCF MP or assist)
Million Carats (CQF MP QCF MP)
Twister (DP Motion LP)

- Jam Session hits full vertical

- Stinger can be cancelled in to "Bold Move" (Special jump)

- Bold move can be cancelled with Specials or Supers

- Curious what Sky Dance (QCF HP) causes near ground, i think it causes heavy knockback but may cause ground bounce. either way it's possible to bypass the final hit, which offes OTG oppertunities (mid screen which is tough for Dante)

- Dance Macabre (S after an QCB special) seems to come out randomly, either that or it requires fantastically precise timing at some point.

- Dante can only do 3 DT specials each time he is airborne, however if he goes in to flight mode he can do 4. so at most he can do 6. (2 ligtning -> Flight -> 4 more)

Akuma

- Forward HP -> LP Tatsu -> S -> HP -> HP Tatsu will net you 5 hits on his Air Tatsu, character specific i imagine.

- Can combo after a Normal Air Zanku Super (QCF PP No Hold)

- Demon Flip Dive Kick is OTG Ground bounce, must hit early in the jump. Normal dive kick is not.

- Overhead chains in to launcher.

- Tatsu is a great assist, seems to have great hit stun because scaling doesn't effect it much

Zero

- Level 3 Charge Shot appears to not be effected by hit stun scaling

- Alpha 3 Style Custom combo super appears to be a pain in the ass to combo with. activating with different combinations of attack doesn't change the delay either.

- Normal Super is great OTG

- Jump Dive attack (QCF MP or HP [LP is a feint?]) is OTG, it also causes slamdown against airborne

- His assists suck, all of them

---

That's it really.

[error1]

it says Unstoppable for 999 hits

supers effect scaling, try doing a lv9 modok beam and dhcing into devil trigger and continuing the combo

[Pokey86]

it says Unstoppable for 999 hits

supers effect scaling, try doing a lv9 modok beam and dhcing into devil trigger and continuing the combo

ah, ok... s'pose i should have put a disclaimer up.

"some things i've stated may be full of shit"

[onReload]

Haha, it happens. But yeah, if you check the hyper guide and tragic's combos you'll see that much of what you've posted has been demonstrated...I am curious about your "not affected by hitstun scaling" findings though.

[Pokey86]

Haha, it happens. But yeah, if you check the hyper guide and tragic's combos you'll see that much of what you've posted has been demonstrated...I am curious about your "not affected by hitstun scaling" findings though.

Well, in terms of Acid Rain, Reverb Shock & Grapple i've got about 100-150 hits in & they go all the way to the floor every time when hit. especially Acid rain which is all the way to the floor from way way up

[anotak]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amYsSM65CZs

glitch i found w/ phoenix

its her unfly cancel ground normals among other things, i don't know what else it could be useful for.

it also lets you do team super while in flight mode, i dont know what else

sorry i dont have a capture card or anything yet so shaky cam footage will have to do

[Rufus]

The last hit of Emerald Cannon looks like it's cinematic to me. Has anyone tried the DHC bug with it?

[error1]

interesting, reminds me of a glitch in the old vs games that let you do ground moves when flying after a flying screen

[Tigre III]

Some interesting stuff:
-A lot of air hyper setups allow to connect more hits after a hyper combo. Basically, the set up is to do the air hyper very near the floor, better with the dummy in standing position ( no air juggle).
The fact is that when your char reaches the floor, it seems that the recovery is canceled. With some aerial special moves, if performed really near the ground, the char touch the floor before all the hits succes, canceling the air move and allows to continue the combo, like the triple tenderizer at 1:36 here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3dfpZKFPmE (The last tenderizer (Medium) only works agaist Centinel, Captain America and Iron Man, and you must supercancel the last whiffed hit to connect the lvl 3 hyper after the knockdown).
Its some type of "land recovery cancel", i dont know exactly how its could be called...

-An easy set up for the Thor Mighty Tornado float state is s.H-> Mighty Smash M->Hyper. Depending the dummy, you must supercancel on the fist or on the second hit of the Mighty Smash. Works nice against Centinel, Tron and Hulk, but its possible to do it agaisnt more characters. Its not necessary the corner, works good in the middle. That float state makes the dummy to land uncommonly slow, and you can connect any normal, special, hyper...

-The little glitch with Deadpool´s dash only works against Captain America, and only works if the first hit connects. You can also combo after the crossup dash ( maybe to start a "stylish" combo?)

-Since you can change the type of Hyper your team does in a THC selecting differents assist type, the THC becomes a really great thing to consider in a possible combo, because if you includes a good OTG hyper, you can connect it in a lot of situations. And with the correct hyper team selection, its so easy to continue the combo after. You can also super jump cancel a launch with a THC, giving some new possibilities with a vertical hypers like Zero, Dr.Doom, Dormammu, etc...

[Rufus]

Semi-random question: Has anyone tried to assist with the (former) primary character after a switch combo? I.e. DHC and then OTG assist, or Air Switch and then OTG assist?

[spookydonkey]

had a lil break during work today, came home & theres an update for marvel.
anotak posted in GA thread on srk that it was a patch & sent now has 900 health.
jumped in training & found he was right.
also found that they changed the M followup to spencers grounded jcc'd highgrapple. now combos i had been working on no longer work

where is the changelog.......

[onReload]

The SRK article is keeping itself updated, it's pretty good right now, and desk says he has another video detailing updates (his first one shows some nice side-by-side comparisons.)

Something I was thinking about while chatting on MSN - when pressing any direction with Jill during Mad Beast (her level 3 "Bang" mode), you teleport:

but yeah i mean thing i think is cool about jill
and my execution is so bad i can't do any of it but
in the guide, her (during level 3) infinite is
qcf light, qcf medium
and the idea is that you can cancel the first move into the second, but that's not really the case, they explain
it's that you delay pressing "medium" so you're slighly teleporting
so you're doing qcf light, teleport, qcf medium
so you're not canceling one move into the other, but instead, the teleport
[...]
so i wonder if like slightly weird tiger knee motions or whatever would allow for longer combos

[Raine]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blkTwOyexVM

Pretty zzz and not related to combos at all, but someone here might find it interesting.

[onReload]

Yeah I did that on Day 1 and lol'd a lot. it's just 'cause galactus blocks whatever wall there would be behind him.

speaking of the big dude, does anyone know how the final battle works? is it just 'defeat galactus before time runs out' or is there more to it? sometimes he seems busy even with 0 health and i'm still wailing on him