SF4 Plinking

[CPS2]

Just wondering something about plinking in SF4, as I understand it you're supposed to get a double input when sliding from a stronger attack to a weaker one, because the game recognises it as pressing the stronger attack once, and then the stronger attack plus the weaker attack at the same time (defaulting to the stronger attack). It sounds like it makes sense, but I think I've found an exception to it. With Chun's cr.LPx3>st.HP, if I plink the input I can manage to get standing LP to come out, even though on input display the only time it says LP, is where it also shows HP at the same time.

I have a feeling that even tho plinking is meant to allow you to hit a link early, and it still should work due to the double input, there's examples of where it doesn't work like that. Worst case scenario is that it never works like that, and people just think it does.

Some of us can test this stuff out by programming inputs into games, slowing the games down, or whatever. I was planning on doing this myself but am having trouble with SF4 on PC, I think my computer just isn't good enough to run it and I get a lot of random results when scripting inputs.

So I'm just wondering what people's thoughts are on plinking, do we have some people who understand it in depth and can explain why I managed to get LP+HP=LP?

[error1]

With Chun's cr.LPx3>st.HP, if I plink the input I can manage to get standing LP to come out, even though on input display the only time it says LP, is where it also shows HP at the same time.

c. lp->s. lp-> generally isn't a link but a chain. Do it with mp and it should work better

[CPS2]

With Chun's cr.LPx3>st.HP, if I plink the input I can manage to get standing LP to come out, even though on input display the only time it says LP, is where it also shows HP at the same time.

c. lp->s. lp-> generally isn't a link but a chain. Do it with mp and it should work better

lol that was easy. Makes sense, thanks.

Something else I was wondering, does the first and second input have to be on 2 consecutive frames, and if not, is it possible to get a triple input (for HP), going from HP~MP~LP on 3 consecutive frames?

[Maj]

From what i've seen, i'm pretty sure all kara-cancels in SF4 are limited to a one-frame window. The only exceptions are arbitrary things like Sagat's F+LK being whiff cancelable and Akuma being able to cancel anything via Demons.

That's why everything has such a huge pre-buffer window. Normally that'd be your kara-cancel window but SF4 just saves it for after the move connects.

[Raine]

Hmm if I understand correctly it is possible to use plink using 3 inputs on consecutive frames, so for the Chun example, HP~MP~LP would give you 3 chances at hitting the link rather than one. You've already encountered the problem you get with this though that if your plink is done too early (during the window in which you could chain cancel the c.LP), then you'll end up getting s.LP instead.

EDIT: I did some testing and it seems it'll only work with 2 inputs, not 3. That's what I get for believing everything I read on SRK haha.

[Xenozip.]

By the way the reason this "helps" is simple, but just to clarify:

I made a little visual representation for my blog but never posted it.


Basically the blues represent frames. If you have a 1F window where you need to press HP, and you're just pressing HP alone then you must press it on exactly the 5th frame. But with Plinking you can start the input on either the either the 3rd, 4th, or 5th frame and still get a HP to execute on exactly the 5th frame. It doesn't turn the link from a 1F link to a 3F link it just increases the window of execution from 1 to 3.

[Maj]

Nice diagram. Why didn't you post it?

Btw do we have concrete proof that it's 3F and not 2F? Because like i said before, my money's on 2F. In other words, i buy into your bottom two orange rows but not your top row. But this is the kind of thing that could only be tested conclusively on the PC version, which i don't have.

[CPS2]

If someone does test it, I guess you could just switch out LP for LK and it should still work. If it works =]

[Xenozip.]

edit --- err hang on.

[Xenozip.]

Well OK I don't know how you'd test for concrete evidence but I do have the PC version and some time to kill.

After testing it at low framerate in several different ways I'm pretty convinced that the same input will never occur a third time. So yeah it's not possible (or it's likely to not be humanly possible). Kara/slide/plink only carries an input over once and only once.

Also I didn't test error1's explanation of chaining interfering with plinks but I assume he's correct.

[Snoooootch]

So was this ever made official? I know it's late as heck, but I still don't know wheter it's a 2 or 3 frame plink. I still feel it's 2 frames, so could someone shed some light on this?

[error1]

is what a 2 or 3 frame plink? All plinks make the game register a button input twice.

[Rufus]

I'm pretty sure that 'input cancels' are 1-frame only, and plinks will only carry one frame. I'll see if it's possible to plink-cancel one special into another. Might make for some interesting possibilities.

[error1]

what's a plink-cancel? do you mean kara cancel?

[Rufus]

what's a plink-cancel? do you mean kara cancel?

I suppose. Technically, Kara cancel refers to other types of canceling as well.

[error1]

yah you can only kara cancel a move once, gouken can't lp counter kara into lk counter kara into ex counter, and no renda cancels in sf4

[Rufus]

yah you can only kara cancel a move once, gouken can't lp counter kara into lk counter kara into ex counter, and no renda cancels in sf4

Yeah, but you can (I think) kara cancel from a regular special move into an EX special move (or possibly a kkk/ppp special).
There are renda (chain) cancels in SF4. I think there's no renda-kara cancels like SF2 has.

[Maj]

Plinking and kara-cancels are totally different concepts. Their only similarity is that they're both based in input leniency.

With plinking, you're not actually canceling anything. If plinking occurs, that's because the initial input was negated by hitstun/blockstun/recovery.

With kara-cancels, both moves actually come out. The second one simply cancels the first one, with certain residual effects left over - such as forward movement or Ken's distorted air Hurricane Kick arc or Akuma's red flames or whatever.

By plinking from s.HK to s.HK+MK, you're replacing the MK input with another HK input. It's impossible to kara-cancel s.MK into s.HK normals.

edit: I know everyone knows all this, but i'm just restating for clarity because it's easy to get it mixed up in conversation.

[Snoooootch]

Yess, thank you very much for clearing that up. It took my forever to understand the idea of plinking, and once I did I asked myself how wide was the frame window for successfully landing a solid plink. I guess it's 2 frames. Now that it is, I have a clearer understanding of what my execution needs to be. . . or at least what it's supposed to be.

[spookydonkey]

heres what ive been wanting to know for some time now:

do directional inputs have the same effect?

example:
cody - s.strong, c.fierce

nuetral on stick when you input s.strong... then opposed to holding down @ some early point in the strong animation, you wait for the fierce input

the input display reads the same as a plink but w/down input arrows

does this make sense?

[Snoooootch]

Directional inputs.. thats a good question. I'm not sure bro. and no, not very much to me. Plus Cody is one of the 5 characters I know nothing about. People here have the ability to use programmable controllers to test it out. I'm sure they'll be glad to help. ask rufus, or error1. I'm sure they'll help you out.

[error1]

the input display reads the same as a plink but w/down input arrows

you can't plink with directional inputs

are you sure it looks the same?

a plink to get two chances at c.hp in a s.mp,c.hp combo should look like

mp
d+hp
d+hp+lp

I don't see anything like that with directional buttons

[Rufus]

...

Button -> Button+Direction plinking does not appear to work.

[spookydonkey]

i wasnt sure, but i knew this would be a fine place to get an answer

obviously my grasp of the core concept was flawed
it was a fleeting idea i had based on a feeling... it seemed like links that required directional changes became easier if i waited to press direction&button simultaneously. & youre right, error, the input display doesnt show exactly like a plink, but the way it displays direction+button input clouded it further in my mind.

on a down+hp it shows:

down+hp
down

i guess i was figuring the extra input was "bumping" the button input up into proper timing... like i said, flawed grasp of the concept
thx for setting me straight sirs!

[error1]

no problem, there is something to it tho if you're playing on a keyboard.
in the same way strong attacks override weaker attacks, and kicks override punches when pressed on the same frame, forward overrides back and can be used for some charging tricks

[GetTheFruit]

...

Button -> Button+Direction plinking does not appear to work.

Actually, It is possible. For example, I have tested if Ken can do a Kara back-throw. It works, but too damn hard to execute, easier on stick than pad though.
Input for ken's backthrow shows like this:
Back+LP+LK+MK
Forward+MK
Forward
Desk also proved it in his last " impossible 720 motion" video.

EDIT:
I actually made a mistake and fixed it

[error1]

that isn't plinking
plinking a throw would be

Forward+LP+LK
Forward+LP+LK+MK
Forward

[Rufus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXN9TgnI5XA

Yeah, but the direction change won't double the button inputs.

[GetTheFruit]

Ohh yeah your right, It seems I misunderstood your previous post.
Hahaha, great demo. You didn't have to bother though =x.

[Snoooootch]

Okay, Xenozip, I made a video using your grid. I hope you don't mind. I put your name on it. I made it to show my understanding of the idea of plinking. I hope I'm not wrong, but I'm open for criticism. I'll link it when it's done.

Edit* here's the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaPAZ5TmDF0