Ghetto Combo Video Discussion

[Doopliss]

Hey, at 3:44, Tizoc does the same pose Seth does during his ultra 2.

[Dammit]

What, no mention of Vega?

[Don Vecta]

I dunno what you guys think about this... but this is an example of a bad stereotype of SNK combo video...

http://player.youku.com/player.php/sid/XMTYwMTUxODYw/v.swf

Bad combos, shitty overloaded and overelaborated edition (combine that with the ghetto quality of Youku and your eyes' gonna bleed) that couldn't appreciate the combos... ugly music... dunno, this is an example of what not to do.

Thoughts?

[onReload]

Yeah I had to stop watching that. The editing was intrusive enough to actually frustrate me, and was using the whole lightning-fast-flashes-of-imagery-thing way too much. Felt like I've seen these combos before, but since I almost never see transcripts/explanations for SNK fighter-based videos, I don't know if what I'm looking at is even supposed to be amazing. I also don't know what platform the games are on, how they're using certain characters, I can't tell the games apart, I don't know "common" glitches or techniques, and I REALLY do not care about who is friends with whom - this is the internet, you didn't pull some hard-to-attain celebrity to come work with you, it's another guy who makes combos. Good, cool, but leave the credits for the end. The basic philosophy, with ANY film, is that sometimes you have to remember: "less is more." If you have good content,

LET US LOOK AT IT.

CMV makers seem to forget that while they've had days and days to look at their combos while they create/edit them, we only have split seconds to figure out what's going on. Quick zooms or cuts do not help. Text/image overlays do not help either. It all just feels like a general alienation of the viewer and while you said they're "bad combos," it would be hard for me to even figure out if a certain part was actually a diamond in the rough. A good combo video, or CMV, should be entertaining even if the viewer does not know the game. Yes, more than basic knowledge of video games, specifically fighting games, is needed, but when I not only don't get why characters are stuck to Kim, and I don't see an easy way to figure it out (wouldn't know where to find the transcript if they made one), so in the end...what was I actually looking at? Things moving on a screen?

[error1]

I got 1:13 seconds in, almost two combos.

[Smileymike101]

There are combos in the first 2 minutes?I couldn't understand anything.After 5 hours of messy intro i quit.

[Don Vecta]

Yup, this is sadly what has been giving SNK combo videos a bad rep. For many years, many makers just perform their combos or bugs but they do NOT share the transcripts whatsoever. They want to keep the rep of being the discoverers of a weird bug or combo or whatever. Nowadays, though, we heavily combat these kind of guys that want to have their CMV's hosted at CX... and when their shit it's simply weird that not even basic knowledge of common bugs or engine mechanics can understand, we ask for the explanations to share the community. A couple of bastards lately wanted to keep their secret and be considered super heroic bug makers but in the end they just got alienated from the community.

In fact, one of those videos were the butt of the joke in this April's fool with our latest "amazing bug CMV".

Times change and at least at CX we try to make a difference to show quality CMV's... or at least to make them visually comprehensible or at least enjoyable to the sight.

After watching this particular video I felt like going out from a tacky J-pop club after popping 5 pills of EX and bottle and half of tequila... that dizzy it left me!

[Dark_Chaotix]

Since when was it mandatory to write transcripts?

[Smileymike101]

When you post something people don't know wtf it is, it's nice to explain it.

[Don Vecta]

Since when was it mandatory to write transcripts?

Certainly it's not mandatory to write the transcripts, however, if someone at least can explain how the bug or the main set up works then it will be fine. Gen, for example, already went into explaining the source of the bugs and the set up.

I guess that's also IF the audience it's interested in knowing the stuff. So far nobody have asked about my Tekken 6 combos why are they so special, in case someone does that, I'd gladly break down the whole set ups and why they are there.

[Raine]

Yeah I struggled to watch all the way through this due to the over the top editing. It just takes the focus away from the combos and puts it more on the video (which seems to be what some of these guys care more about, releasing vids with boring combos just so they can do editing on it).

One thing to keep in mind is that sometimes when they skip parts of a combo or w/e, it's because that combo has been seen many times before and they just want to highlight a small variation they did at the beginning or end. If you are not someone who has a history of watching SNK combo vids (there are a LOT of them), then you won't understand that the combo has been seen 10 times already and no one wants to see it again lol. That said, I am always against cutting away parts of a combo. I like to see from the very beginning to the very end, with the game sfx loud and intact. SNK CMVs can be pretty inaccessible at times especially if you don't understand some of the common bugs and techniques that are being used. Just watch more.

A quick explanation (or even a transcript) can add a lot to a video though. Like for example Gen's latest video or any of Maj's recent stuff, there were often small details I didn't notice whilst watching the combo, but I could understand the significance of it because I could read an insider view of it's construction.


EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpAivC9eV2w

New 2k2UM 100% combo vid. Highlights are the Yuri combo at 0:50 where Kasumi trades something (not sure what, probably her hcb,f+P command unblockable) with Yuri's HSDM which negates the usual HSDM screen effect and allows her to BC the second hit of the shin shoryu at the end into another combo. I love these kinda crazy cancel bugs that pop up in KoF fairly often heh. I thought the Robert combo at 1:12 was quite good too (being able to juggle after the HSDM is May Lee specific due to how she falls).

[Dark_Chaotix]

When you post something people don't know wtf it is, it's nice to explain it.

I know why you would, but my question was more of a sarcastic / rhetorical one.

[onReload]

I didn't mean to imply that everyone has to write transcripts, I'm just saying that it adds to the confusion when one doesn't exist. There are plenty of games that people assume bugs are known for (guile's magic throws, kinda?) but it's definitely always a nice thing to see.

[Persona]

I got to the Takuma combo and called it quits because I am reminded why alot of people ignore SNK combo videos even before downloading.

All I ask for from them is what remxi said, show the entire combo, no zoom in zoom out flying images across the screen etc. At most I would just like to see the name of the performer and a logo stamp so people can't rip the actual combo from the video.

Deja Vu? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOKXnYA67CM

Oh and what do you guys think of visual mooks? Like combo videos that shows the transcript before each combo. Not a fast paced combo video but it is informative.

[Maj]

Haha this guy's pretty awesome.

SF4 Vega Combo Exhibition by ShinyMaster

Why have i never special thanked Guile in a video before??

Seriously though, it's not a bad video considering how limited Vega is. He's just one of those characters where you feel like you're making a "compromise exhibition" rather than a combovid.

Oh and what do you guys think of visual mooks? Like combo videos that shows the transcript before each combo. Not a fast paced combo video but it is informative.

Hm, i dunno. Something always tends to go wrong with those. I don't know if it's the format or the kind of combos they feel they have to show, but those types of vids usually end up being really boring. And i hate it when the replay the same combo (in full) in slow motion.

[Xenozip.]

I liked the SF3:3s anniversary mook. It was slow paced and there was only minimal rewatch value but somehow I still enjoyed watching it more than once.

In theory the ultimate mook would be faster paced, but with text transcripts and audio narration overlayed with decently choreographed music. You'd only need to sacrifice the pacing/flow for really important stuff like the exact moment of a karacancel or special-timing-input or mixup. Having text transcripts would cut down on the need to explain things verbally, and explaining things verbally would cut down on the need to reiterate/emphasize/reshow things visually.

As far as editing goes when showing similar combos or setups/mixups, I thought about split screens. Personally I still think it would drastically cut down on the need to replay identical footage. In other words, if you have a 4-way mixups you could split the screen in 4, show the setup on all four, pause three and have the first panel be in full color while the other three gray-scale then as soon as the mixup occurs you switch to the next panel and show the alternate option. This is good because the first panel is now frozen on that mixup option and there was zero transition into the next option, it just starts instantly. This could also be done with combos that have similar "paths" or combo branches/variables.

Maj has used splitscreens before in the past in a somewhat similar way, I keep thinking of how beautiful it was to see Alex in splitscreen in the ode to the 2hit. It was the perfect example of splitscreen utilization.

I don't think it would necessarily be "difficult" but it would definitely be an editing nightmare, lots of tedious grind. But then if you're going to be neurotic about a mook then might as well go all the way.

[onReload]

I'd rather have a transcript separately, like in the description or something, so I don't have to keep rewinding and then pausing (which can cause some distortion) on the transcript bit. When stuff gets complicated it's not too useful a format. I think it's OK for beginner combos - I don't know the characters in Super very well for instance, so I might not know what certain moves look like, and a quick preparatory title card is cool.

Also, Xenozip: whatever happened to those 3s anniversary vids?

[Xenozip.]

MvC2 - Dumb 100% combo
Seems like Armando <- is having difficulty explaining how double OTGs work in marvel. Maybe some one could help him explain.

Also, Xenozip: whatever happened to those 3s anniversary vids?

Meaning what?

[onReload]

I meant, I used to be able to find them on youtube, now...not so much

[Xenozip.]

I meant, I used to be able to find them on youtube, now...not so much

Oh interesting, I didn't know. The first and last time I watched them wasn't on youtube. Yeah, they use to be on youtube, I remember watching the Akuma section there a while back. Beats me, I would only guess/assume copyright claims.

But for those who have/remember them, my ideal would be to have that exact kind of video except with absolutely no idle time (in other words the AE tute vids on crack).

[Xenozip.]

Regarding the above, it looks like Armando likes the splitscreen format as well tutsample

He sure loves his MvC2 lately.

[Xenozip.]

I
Also, Xenozip: whatever happened to those 3s anniversary vids?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjR0R2qJ0fM

[onReload]

Yessir, went through them again. I really enjoyed the comments about how "veterans don't need a translation." Uh-huh.

[Maj]

Not a combo video but most definitely ghetto. (Turn the volume way down before you watch this.)

youtube.com/watch?v=216Id4WyA84

Haha i had no idea there was GGPO vs XBL drama. Pretty entertaining, and the accent is awesome.

[Don Vecta]

Not a combo video but most definitely ghetto. (Turn the volume way down before you watch this.)

youtube.com/watch?v=216Id4WyA84

Haha i had no idea there was GGPO vs XBL drama. Pretty entertaining, and the accent is awesome.

lol WTF!? Whta kind of accent is that?

[Raging Hawk]

lol WTF!? Whta kind of accent is that?

The bitching accent!

[error1]

It's a southern American accent

[Maj]

Apparently there was a whole thread about it on SRK. I mean, the dude is legitimately good, but not good enough to talk this much shit. And it doesn't help that he's playing a dead game which had a ridiculously high level of competition in its prime. It's pretty much impossible to make a name for yourself in HF at this point, because everyone's always going to say that you'd lose to 1993.

[Xenozip.]

Everyone in that thread says it's horribly laggy, hence the preference toward GGPO.

[onReload]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-FMEw4f0ZM

last chun li combo. that is all.