SF4 Biweekly TACV Series

[CPS2]

I get how you could cancel red FB into EX red FB: HCB+HP~LP+MP, and into EX tatsu: HCB+HP~LK+MK, but how would you go into an EX dragon punch? What would be the motion that works in 1 frame?

[error1]

(I thought it was only armour moves like Abels Rekka or Rogs dash etc)

No any move can be Kara canceled on the first frame but it's pointless to do it normally unless the the move your canceling moves you forward like kens steep kick, or gives you armor like rogs ex dashes. But you can only cancel once and you can only cancel into a higher priority move. So for example Gouken can do a high counter and kara cancel it into, super, ultra, low counter, or ex counter. He can't for example do high counter, ex fireball and he can't do high counter, low counter, ultra.

i guess you can hit the HK on it's later active frames but by god i've never seen that achieved

sounds character specific, most times it would be easier to do, far hk, s. lp, c.hk

I get how you could cancel red FB into EX red FB: HCB+HP~LP+MP, and into EX tatsu: HCB+HP~LK+MK, but how would you go into an EX dragon punch? What would be the motion that works in 1 frame?

f,df,d,db,b,P,df+PP I guessing

[Pokey86]

Apparently you've got Sakura on the go for the TACV combos Maj.

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Just randomly if you're going for number combo, like max hits possible or whatever.

You can do an 18 hit combo on Seth, uses one EX bar & causes stun. (Then you can follow up with whatever i guess)

CH J.HK -> Cl.MK -> LK Tatsu -> Cl.MK -> LK Tatsu -> Cl.MK -> LK Tatsu -> Cr.HP -> LK Tatsu -> F.LK -> EX Tatsu -> LP SRK -> Sakura Otoshi X 3

= Stun on Seth

I'm not sure if you can do this all in corner & still combine LP SRK with Otoshi without FADC, but if you start the combo past half screen so that it ends with Sakura about a block out & Seth pressing the wall then it's definately possible.

Not sure if there is a bigger combo for that, & i know it's not amazingly original but i guess with 3 bars remaining you could still make some hefty numbers after. & Sakuras can go on for so long that she can go from one side of the screen to the other twice. (Well nearly) I did intend to keep this for myself but until i get a new recording method i won't be able to make vids. (Cause i play in HD now, when i prep the DVD player, i don't know why but my timing seems off)

Did you decide whether you was going to further these in SSFIV's engine or are you keeping it classic

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I'm eager to see what you come up with for Sakura.

[Maj]

I think i'm just gonna keep it relatively basic with her. I'll try to do as many Hurricane Kicks as i can in a combo, and jchensor wanted me to do as many jabs as i can in a combo, so that's two. I'll probably save Seth for a damage combo starting with counterhit fully charged FB.

One thing that confuses me is she has a 9-frame s.LP, which means if you do light attack -> whiff s.LP, you should get 13 frames of hit stun from the first light attack, minus 9 frames, should give you +3, right? Theoretically you should be able to do c.LP -> whiff s.LP, s.LK xx whatever.

But i can't even get c.LP -> whiff s.LP -> s.LK to combo. What gives? In fact i tried with a bunch of characters and the only combo of this kind i could find was Balrog's far s.LP -> whiff far s.LP -> c.LP (against crouching Gief). What's even stranger is no other sequence seems to work. I mean if that works, why don't close s.LP -> whiff far s.LP -> c.LP or c.LP -> whiff far s.LP -> c.LP combo?

[Doopliss]

think you can do something cool with s.HP xx Sakura otoshi on sagat? Also, think you can get a decent juggle after sakura otoshi? I've experimented with it for a while some time ago, but couldn't get anything.

[error1]

it's strange, I recorded some footage of balrog and sakura jabbing and then looked at it frame by frame in vdub and it looks like chaining a light attack doesn't get rid of all it's recovery time but reduces it to around 3 or 4 frames.

[Pokey86]

think you can do something cool with s.HP xx Sakura otoshi on sagat? Also, think you can get a decent juggle after sakura otoshi? I've experimented with it for a while some time ago, but couldn't get anything.

Yeah i swear on a few occasions i thought something could be done after this, messed about for ages doing her Ultra after (PPP Verstion has faster start up IIRC) but nothing came out fast enough... It really does look like it can be done though.

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One thing that confuses me is she has a 9-frame s.LP, which means if you do light attack -> whiff s.LP, you should get 13 frames of hit stun from the first light attack, minus 9 frames, should give you +3, right? Theoretically you should be able to do c.LP -> whiff s.LP, s.LK xx whatever.

But i can't even get c.LP -> whiff s.LP -> s.LK to combo. What gives? In fact i tried with a bunch of characters and the only combo of this kind i could find was Balrog's far s.LP -> whiff far s.LP -> c.LP (against crouching Gief). What's even stranger is no other sequence seems to work. I mean if that works, why don't close s.LP -> whiff far s.LP -> c.LP or c.LP -> whiff far s.LP -> c.LP combo?

Are you basing your data off of the event hubs data? because some of it just feels wrong to me.

[Doopliss]

Are you basing your data off of the event hubs data? because some of it just feels wrong to me.

It says T.Hawk's s.MP is +4, it is +6.

[Maj]

think you can do something cool with s.HP xx Sakura otoshi on sagat? Also, think you can get a decent juggle after sakura otoshi? I've experimented with it for a while some time ago, but couldn't get anything.

What do have in mind? Her ultra has no juggle potential. You can't do EX Hurricane Kick, LP DP, ultra or anything like that. Even the second hit whiffs. What's weird is the second hit connects after the first hit connects, which suggests that her ultra grounds people the same way as Seth's EX vacuum, not like Rufus' super. So maybe she can go ground-to-air if you interrupt her ultra during a juggle.

But still, what could you do after Sakura Otoshi? Maybe HP DP but that's about it.

it's strange, I recorded some footage of balrog and sakura jabbing and then looked at it frame by frame in vdub and it looks like chaining a light attack doesn't get rid of all it's recovery time but reduces it to around 3 or 4 frames.

Makes sense. What we need is another character who can do that whiff jab combo so we can compare frame data with Balrog's jab and see which numbers are critical. But then there's always a chance that Rog's far standing jab is just plain "special."

Are you basing your data off of the event hubs data? because some of it just feels wrong to me.

Haha no, haven't gone there in months.

[Doopliss]

think you can do something cool with s.HP xx Sakura otoshi on sagat? Also, think you can get a decent juggle after sakura otoshi? I've experimented with it for a while some time ago, but couldn't get anything.

What do have in mind? Her ultra has no juggle potential. You can't do EX Hurricane Kick, LP DP, ultra or anything like that. Even the second hit whiffs. What's weird is the second hit connects after the first hit connects, which suggests that her ultra grounds people the same way as Seth's EX vacuum, not like Rufus' super. So maybe she can go ground-to-air if you interrupt her ultra during a juggle.

But still, what could you do after Sakura Otoshi? Maybe HP DP but that's about it.

I dunno, Im asking you XD So you're still working in vanilla SFIV with this? If not, We found out that Shinkuu tengyo hadoken only hit crouching rose twice point blank without knocking her down. Maybe you can use it as a combo starter with a trade.

[Maj]

Nope, sticking with vanilla until the DVD is done.

[error1]

Balrog's far s.LP -> whiff far s.LP -> c.LP (against crouching Gief).

looking at this in slow motion
s.lp hit ( 3 frame recovery )
whiff far s.LP ( 7 frames )
c.LP ( 3 frames )
total = 13 frames

looking at c.LP -> whiff far s.LP -> c.LP in slow motion

s.lp hit ( 4 frame recovery )
whiff far s.LP ( 7 frames )
c.LP ( 3 frames )
total = 14 frames
combos with counter hit

assuming chaining just reduces recovery by 2
s.lp -> whiff s.LP -> c.lp should work with sakura on counter hit
and sure enough it does ( can be done super close on crouching honda )

Balrog far lp normally has 4 frames recovery quick search for other quick recovering jabs
Sagat cl. lp has 4 frame recover can't be chained

So yes Balrogs jab is special in that it's the only chainable light attack with only 4 frames recovery

[Maj]

Cool, thanks for testing it out and sharing your findings. The reason i focused on Sakura and Balrog (and Akuma) is because they're the only SF4 characters with 9-frame light attacks, but i guess the recovery number is specifically what makes it work.

Or rather, it's what you need for the first attack. Theoretically, what you probably need is a 4-frame RE light attack to connect, followed by a whiffed 9-frame TO light attack, followed by a 3rd frame AC light attack connecting.

Sakura and Akuma can whiff a jab in 7 frames too, right? They just lose a frame on the first one, because Balrog's far standing jab recovers faster (because it connects slower).

[error1]

Yah sakura s.lp -> whiff s.LP -> c.lp has to be exactly 14 frames because counter hit light attacks only give you +1
chun should also be able to do it on counter hit but she has to whiff a crouching attack so it's harder
Juri has a 9 frame move but she probably can't whiff it in range
frame data for T.hawk's cl.lp looks off a frame somewhere, probably only gives +6

but yah it looks like Balrog is the only one with the required 4 frame recovery 9 frame total and 3 frame startup to make it happen

[Maj]

So what's up with Sakura Otoshi being listed on SRK as having 2 JP? She can't connect that after EX FB. Typo?

[Doopliss]

So what's up with Sakura Otoshi being listed on SRK as having 2 JP? She can't connect that after EX FB. Typo?

You can't use that thing, it's outdated. TC hasn't updated in a long time. I have posted most of the correct datasomewhere oon the last few pages though.

[error1]

I suddenly remembered that zangiefs far jab had a crazy +frames so I looked it up and sure enough it has +8 the same as Balrog, the reason why is strange tho, it causes 14 frames of hit stun instead of 13 like every other light attack in the game.
this warranted some frame by frame
far LP -> whiff far s.LP -> c.Lk
s.lp hit ( 4 frame recovery )
whiff far s.LP ( 8 frames )
c.LK ( 3 frames )
total = 15 frames

very strange but I can confirm that this combos on counter hit in vanilla
must be the same 14 frame hit stun with t. hawks c.lp

looking to see who else has a 14 frame hit stun
gen has two non chainable super-useless lk
seth far lp
Ibuki far lp give +8 but olny +4 on block, if the +8 is right however she should be able to do
far LP -> whiff far LP -> far LP without counterhit, someone should test this for me if they can find the right hit box

[Maj]

Nix the Sakura jabs combo i mentioned earlier. The Hurricane Kick combo is long enough and i don't need two like that in one video. I've got kind of a stylish combo against Akuma except it's pissing me off that no matter what i do, the last hit gives me a bar of meter that i can't use at that point. Looks ugly as hell. I think i'm just gonna have to accept it though and move on.

Might do one or two wacky juggles, depending on whether i can come up with nice enough setups. She can do EX Hurricane Kick into EX DP (1+2 hits), and with the right corner spacing the second hit of the second DP pops up 'em up way high, so she can get one hit out of HP DP. But that means i gotta do a midscreen combo which means no fireballs.

She can also do LP DP, EX FB as a corner ground combo, but that's probably not worth showing. And she can combo fully charged FB into EX FB at max range in the corner without a meaty setup, then probably add on HP DP, but again it's probably not worth showing. You could probably add a lvl3 Focus Attack in front of all that, but people would just talk shit.

[error1]

so no combos into u2? It would probably be free at the end of at least one of your combos. Meaty overhead combo?

[Maj]

I'm not touching SSF4 until i'm done with this DVD.

Seriously.

Not even a little bit tempted.

(Only exception is the three combos or whatever that i'm gonna need to record for our Evo vid.)

[Pokey86]

so no combos into u2? It would probably be free at the end of at least one of your combos. Meaty overhead combo?

i think he's sticking to SFIV, not SSFIV

[Maj]

I'm sure one of you guys tried this already, but EX Hurricane Kick (last hit) vs Dhalsim whiff j.LP, EX Hurricane Kick (last hit) doesn't create a second free juggle state. Weaksauce, etc.

Well, it looks like Sakura's ultra causes about as much hit stun as a standard fireball. That means no trade setup; not without a rose at least. Damn, that's two Sakura combos that could've been better in Super.

[Maj]

Haha got bored and decided to try the Ken ultra glitch for the first time. It's too bad both characters start ignoring inputs. If we could get the other character free, there's a chance that hitting Ken would send him into The Slow Motion Hitstun of Forever, aka free infinites for every boy and girl!

I tried using Dan's Taunt super so i could cancel it into ultra, but no luck there. Also tried backing into the corner, trying to get the rest of Ken's ultra to connect, but he pushes himself way off and ends up half screen away before the first kick. Ken's fully invincible so even if we could get a fireball out there, it'd just pass through him. So all the obvious options are off the table.

[desk]

It's easy enough to get a fireball to him but, like you say, it just passes through ken. Looks pretty cool though.

The only slightly interesting thing that hasn't been in a vid I can think of would be to do the freeze version of the glitch (with a raging demon or FAB) in a versus game. Then have a short clip of the screen after the time has run out, with both characters frozen in place. Doubt it would look great in the middle of a combo vid but it might work. Also, it's probable you wouldn't be able to pause and quit to menu after that.

Weirdly, it still works in super so there are a bunch of new things to try out in that.

Really excited (and a bit scared) to see your sakura stuff Maj. She seems to have a lot of room for walking forward mid combo that just isn't practical by hand. I have a 'Super' combo I'm saving but I'm almost certain that most of it will be obsolete after your vid comes out, lol.

Have you tried juggling after the last hit of a whiffed ultra? No idea if it's possible but it would look cool.

[Pokey86]

Yeah that's a fair poont, i know if her last high kick hits airborne it causes knockdown... haven't tested if it's float, but most likely standard.

[error1]

Maj I'm curious if angry scar slows time in the glitch like all the other supers, also Ibuki's air super. Mokotos super might also be worth trying as it's a 0 frame super. Counter ultras worth a try? Someone needs to check Ryu, Dee Jay, Dhalsim, Juri, and Ken to see if any of the new ultras can be broken in the same way. Seems unlikely that they would make that mistake again, but if they didn't bother to fix ken then the may well have.
No matter where you do the glitch it always ends with the two characters next to each other zoomed in. I'm guessing the opponent is teleported there at the end of the ultra.

[Doopliss]

I'm just wondering, can you submit "700 class" solutions from SSFIV? I have one on Juri (no, it's not with Fei Long or Balrog).

[Smileymike101]

Ken's new ultra can be broken, i'll post a video up.

[Doopliss]

Ken's new ultra can be broken, i'll post a video up.

Do that, I've been waiting since you mentioned it a long time ago D:

[Maj]

Um, i dunno, i've been considering putting up a couple of SSF4 challenges. If i was to put up a 700 Class challenge, how would it be different from the SF4 one? I just think it would be kinda tacky to have the same exact thing. Then again, "725 Class" doesn't sound as good.

Maybe "make a 700 damage combo that wasn't possible in SF4"?