http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXzEyEsZm4A
In this video here the opponent bounces up really high, does anyone know how to do it?
I thought it must be when you hit the opponent while they are attacking it makes them bounce, but i have tried the exact same combos and they dont bounce like they do on this video, is there something else in these combos that makes them fly so high? or is it just really strict timing and im getting it wrong? also i see its really slow in the video, and i was doing it on turbo speed, are these combos only possible on normal since all of these combos are done on normal speed??
anyway off to try these combos on normal speed now, see if it makes a difference.
zerokoubou z2a video question
I'm not a big Alpha player, and know very little about A2, but could it be related to the character being dizzied by the combo?
I notice that most of the characters are missing some health at the start, and I'm wondering if this was deliberately done to get their stun meter up.
I notice that most of the characters are missing some health at the start, and I'm wondering if this was deliberately done to get their stun meter up.
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do.
When you understand why you reject all the other possible gods, you'll understand why I reject yours.
When you understand why you reject all the other possible gods, you'll understand why I reject yours.
I seem to remember something about hitting them with a trip right at the end of a CC knocking them high into the air, and that property being preserved for the next combo you did (maybe only if they tech-rolled?). Maybe it was any move at the end of a CC (so you do the move and the CC ends and the move hits), maybe it had to be the only move, not sure. Check around with that, I remember seeing the Sakura super pop up like it did in the vid.
And yeah, there's the Rose superfreeze bug in the SNES version where you can cause all sorts of weird hitstuns with every char until you turn off the system... :^)
Mike Z
And yeah, there's the Rose superfreeze bug in the SNES version where you can cause all sorts of weird hitstuns with every char until you turn off the system... :^)
Mike Z
There's a bug in SFA2 involving custom combos which knocks the opponent higher into the air. Omar DeLoney found it back in the day and explained it on agsf2. Actually that was way before i stumbled onto the SF scene via SRK. I only found out about that article because omni pointed it out to me in some random discussion. From what i understand, Omar made a famous Evil Ryu combo video back in the day and he was one of the old school game engine analysts.
Now how did zerokoubou manage to get the opponent into standing animation while preserving that effect? My guess is ancient Japanese magic.
Now how did zerokoubou manage to get the opponent into standing animation while preserving that effect? My guess is ancient Japanese magic.
I think i understand it now, e.g Player 1do a CC which keeps the opponent grounded the whole time right until the end, then finish it with a move that hits them up, when player 2 wakes up, counter their wakeup attack and it will send them up flying high.
So i think what Zerokoubou did is not make the 2nd character do a move when they are waking up, instead he just let player 2 wake up as normal, make player 1 do a combo starting with player 1 countering player 2.
So i think what Zerokoubou did is not make the 2nd character do a move when they are waking up, instead he just let player 2 wake up as normal, make player 1 do a combo starting with player 1 countering player 2.
Hmm i guess my idea was wrong, i can only get the opponent to fly up high if they do a super/special reversal on wakeup and i stuff it with a move that launches, but if i just let them stand up, and i jump in on them and make them attack just befor i hit them so i stuff their move, like in the zerokoubou vids, the launching effect doesnt work.
No idea how these guys do it, I really want to know how to do it because it open a lot of new combo posibilities
No idea how these guys do it, I really want to know how to do it because it open a lot of new combo posibilities
I haven't watched the video yet, but do the guys who get Comboed have any Super Meter? Usually, the easiest way to avoid that kind of thing is to avoid Neutral States, something that was used a lot in Capcom games even before Alpha 3 made a much bigger deal out of them (see preserving OTG combos in CvS2). So maybe the opponent got up and Reversal CC'ed, which preserved it and when the CC runs out, they leave the guy standing there so taht no action will reset the Neutral State.
That's my best guess. I should check the video to see if they have meter, but I'm too lazy right now. ^_^
- James
That's my best guess. I should check the video to see if they have meter, but I'm too lazy right now. ^_^
- James
I've got a feeling that a lot of the things they do in their videos are connected. Namely, the whole notion of keeping characters facing a certain direction while standing up or crouching. There's gotta be some trick to getting a character to keep facing the same direction without turning around.
I remember noticing that if you make one character CC and crouch, then hit them with a crossup while they do low fierce or something, then they'll keep facing the wrong direction until hitstun is over. You can continue a whole combo like this, which is cool because they lean back towards you instead of away from you. This makes their hitbox bigger and gets abused in a lot of KoF videos. If a character is facing the wrong way, odds are they are somehow avoiding neutral state, which could preserve the whole high-bounce thing too.
Either you have to get really deep into SFA2 engine specifics and technical ways of avoiding neutral state, or just ask him on his forum and hope his answer is helpful. Good luck either way.
I remember noticing that if you make one character CC and crouch, then hit them with a crossup while they do low fierce or something, then they'll keep facing the wrong direction until hitstun is over. You can continue a whole combo like this, which is cool because they lean back towards you instead of away from you. This makes their hitbox bigger and gets abused in a lot of KoF videos. If a character is facing the wrong way, odds are they are somehow avoiding neutral state, which could preserve the whole high-bounce thing too.
Either you have to get really deep into SFA2 engine specifics and technical ways of avoiding neutral state, or just ask him on his forum and hope his answer is helpful. Good luck either way.
I should've posted this earlier, but I think I understand what zerokoubou did in those videos. He explains setups and glitches in z2a on his website at this page http://page.freett.com/zerokoubou/commentary.htm
I ran a Korean web translator through the page and then figured out some of the fighting game terminalogy that weren't making sense in the translator and it was finally understandable.
Go to that page I linked at the top. It says "Explanation ver.001" and then it has 4 square bullets right below it. The 4 bullets are
===============================================
*I was going to write up a detailed explanation, but I wasn't organized so here's the short version
*The concept is basically the same as cvs2 Lv2 cancel state retention.
*CC state retention and keeping a character facing the same way basically require the same technique to retain the properties, it's just that the object of retention is different.
*I don't fully understand what this one says but it says something in the lines of "it's very important that you do a CC activation or something against a dummy with these conditions"
===============================================
I gotta go out right now, but when I come back, I'll do more.
I ran a Korean web translator through the page and then figured out some of the fighting game terminalogy that weren't making sense in the translator and it was finally understandable.
Go to that page I linked at the top. It says "Explanation ver.001" and then it has 4 square bullets right below it. The 4 bullets are
===============================================
*I was going to write up a detailed explanation, but I wasn't organized so here's the short version
*The concept is basically the same as cvs2 Lv2 cancel state retention.
*CC state retention and keeping a character facing the same way basically require the same technique to retain the properties, it's just that the object of retention is different.
*I don't fully understand what this one says but it says something in the lines of "it's very important that you do a CC activation or something against a dummy with these conditions"
===============================================
I gotta go out right now, but when I come back, I'll do more.
CC that shit
I'm back and it looks like nobody's read my last post which is even better since you'll get the whole thing at once.
Ok, the first "thing" he explains is the CC retention, but I'm pretty sure this trick is for retaining the dummy's state rather than the attacker's state. So here's how it goes (look at the screenshots he has on that webpage, it'll help a little more). Whatever I have added for clarification purposes are in italic.
===============================================
<<CC retention>>
1st screen - Trading hits mid-CC is to save some meter for a combo.
2nd screen - The dummy does a reversal normal or a command normal. You can't use special or supers cuz that won't get "*sucked in" (it's the term he used) by a CC activation.
3rd screen - Before the dummy attack hits you, activate CC and that's it.
*By "sucked in" he means the effect you get when you activate CC next to an opponent and the opponent's character gets the hit-stun animation from the CC flash.
Now the bullets underneath the screen shots
*This effect lasts until the dummy goes into the next neutral state.
*Unlike cvs2, this effect can still be retained through reversals. This is very huge.
*You don't necessarily have to suck it in with a CC activation. You can do reversal jab and keep rapid firing to retain the effect as well.
*The reason why I sucked it in with a CC activation is to move more freely and it also looks cool. (I guess if you've sucked the dummy in with the CC activation, you can let the meter drain without hitting and just let the dummy stand in neutral state until you hit him. This is probably also the reason he says "until the dummy goes into the next neutral state")
*Even if you start moving around/doing things (with the dummy, probably) you can utilize crouch cancels, turn around cancels and whatnot to avoid neutral state and thus keep this effect.
===============================================
Then he explains 3 ways to make a character face in one direction.
===============================================
Setup 1
1st screen - Dummy sticks out a normal/command normal right before the meter runs out, the longer the move the better.
2nd screen - When the dummy is still in the middle of the move it performed after the meter has run out, activate CC to suck the dummy in. The reason you have to wait till the meter runs out is because you can't suck in a character when they're in the middle of CC mode.
3rd screen - The dummy is now stuck facing one direction.
*This is useful for dummies mostly. The attacker can hardly utilize this.
*Doing a move or going into neutral state again resets the state.
*That's why you can't crouch(??? not sure about this one)
*Until the dummy does a move, you can retain the state by crouch canceling. If you stick out a move during the jump, you can't crouching cancel.
*Sometimes the dummy can't perform any supers while stuck in this state. The causes for this is unknown.
*Also, if you do a reversal move, that move will also face the same direction, but if you kara cancel a normal into a special move it'll turn around and doing a reversal move to retain the state works only once.
*I don't know what he means here, but it doesn't seem like a very important piece of info.
===============================================
===============================================
Setup 2
1st screen - First, stick out a move mid-CC.
2nd screen - Get a counter hit while the dummy's move is still sticking out, and combo a special move(??).
3rd screen - The dummy is stuck facing the wrong way
*It's only useful on dummies.
*If you counterhit a crouching attack, they are stuck facing the wrong way while crouching.
*If the first hit isn't counterhit, the dummy turns around at the 2nd hit.
*Also, if you do a reversal move, that move will also face the same direction, but if you kara cancel a normal into a special move it'll turn around and doing a reversal move to retain the state works only once.
*I don't understand this one either, it's basically the same thing as the last one, not very important.
===============================================
===============================================
Setup 3
The order of screen shots on this one goes from left to right on the top row then left to right on the bottom row.
1st screen - Activate mid-air with the dummy.
2nd screen - Crouch cancel into a move. This is important.
3rd screen - Counterhit that move.
4th screen - Then do a reveral normal/command normal with the dummy.
5th screen - Activate CC to suck the dummy with your character and you got the dummy stuck facing that direction.
6th screen - I've crossed over to the other side, and the dummy doesn't turn around.
*This is somewhat useful for both the dummy and the attacker.
*Unlike setups 1 and 2, you don't turn around until the next neutral state even if you kara cancel a special move.
*It seems like the air activation gives this property. It's almost identical to the Sega Saturn glitch.
*If the dummy does a reversal it also faces the wrong way and unlike setups 1 and 2, you can keep the dummy in this state no matter how many reversals it does until the next neutral state.
*You can even build meter by doing something like [Super -> Special -> Reversal->.....-> Reversal normal -> Suck in with CC activation] (does this transcript make sense to any of you? It doesn't to me, but the translation is accurate.)
*This setup gives you a way to use both setups 1 and 2 and is much more useful than those two, but I'm too lazy to elaborate further(?? not sure about the last bit about elaborating)
===============================================
That's all. Although I was unsure on some of the additional notes, at least we know how to do them now. I'm too lazy to test them out in Kawaks.
Ok, the first "thing" he explains is the CC retention, but I'm pretty sure this trick is for retaining the dummy's state rather than the attacker's state. So here's how it goes (look at the screenshots he has on that webpage, it'll help a little more). Whatever I have added for clarification purposes are in italic.
===============================================
<<CC retention>>
1st screen - Trading hits mid-CC is to save some meter for a combo.
2nd screen - The dummy does a reversal normal or a command normal. You can't use special or supers cuz that won't get "*sucked in" (it's the term he used) by a CC activation.
3rd screen - Before the dummy attack hits you, activate CC and that's it.
*By "sucked in" he means the effect you get when you activate CC next to an opponent and the opponent's character gets the hit-stun animation from the CC flash.
Now the bullets underneath the screen shots
*This effect lasts until the dummy goes into the next neutral state.
*Unlike cvs2, this effect can still be retained through reversals. This is very huge.
*You don't necessarily have to suck it in with a CC activation. You can do reversal jab and keep rapid firing to retain the effect as well.
*The reason why I sucked it in with a CC activation is to move more freely and it also looks cool. (I guess if you've sucked the dummy in with the CC activation, you can let the meter drain without hitting and just let the dummy stand in neutral state until you hit him. This is probably also the reason he says "until the dummy goes into the next neutral state")
*Even if you start moving around/doing things (with the dummy, probably) you can utilize crouch cancels, turn around cancels and whatnot to avoid neutral state and thus keep this effect.
===============================================
Then he explains 3 ways to make a character face in one direction.
===============================================
Setup 1
1st screen - Dummy sticks out a normal/command normal right before the meter runs out, the longer the move the better.
2nd screen - When the dummy is still in the middle of the move it performed after the meter has run out, activate CC to suck the dummy in. The reason you have to wait till the meter runs out is because you can't suck in a character when they're in the middle of CC mode.
3rd screen - The dummy is now stuck facing one direction.
*This is useful for dummies mostly. The attacker can hardly utilize this.
*Doing a move or going into neutral state again resets the state.
*That's why you can't crouch(??? not sure about this one)
*Until the dummy does a move, you can retain the state by crouch canceling. If you stick out a move during the jump, you can't crouching cancel.
*Sometimes the dummy can't perform any supers while stuck in this state. The causes for this is unknown.
*Also, if you do a reversal move, that move will also face the same direction, but if you kara cancel a normal into a special move it'll turn around and doing a reversal move to retain the state works only once.
*I don't know what he means here, but it doesn't seem like a very important piece of info.
===============================================
===============================================
Setup 2
1st screen - First, stick out a move mid-CC.
2nd screen - Get a counter hit while the dummy's move is still sticking out, and combo a special move(??).
3rd screen - The dummy is stuck facing the wrong way
*It's only useful on dummies.
*If you counterhit a crouching attack, they are stuck facing the wrong way while crouching.
*If the first hit isn't counterhit, the dummy turns around at the 2nd hit.
*Also, if you do a reversal move, that move will also face the same direction, but if you kara cancel a normal into a special move it'll turn around and doing a reversal move to retain the state works only once.
*I don't understand this one either, it's basically the same thing as the last one, not very important.
===============================================
===============================================
Setup 3
The order of screen shots on this one goes from left to right on the top row then left to right on the bottom row.
1st screen - Activate mid-air with the dummy.
2nd screen - Crouch cancel into a move. This is important.
3rd screen - Counterhit that move.
4th screen - Then do a reveral normal/command normal with the dummy.
5th screen - Activate CC to suck the dummy with your character and you got the dummy stuck facing that direction.
6th screen - I've crossed over to the other side, and the dummy doesn't turn around.
*This is somewhat useful for both the dummy and the attacker.
*Unlike setups 1 and 2, you don't turn around until the next neutral state even if you kara cancel a special move.
*It seems like the air activation gives this property. It's almost identical to the Sega Saturn glitch.
*If the dummy does a reversal it also faces the wrong way and unlike setups 1 and 2, you can keep the dummy in this state no matter how many reversals it does until the next neutral state.
*You can even build meter by doing something like [Super -> Special -> Reversal->.....-> Reversal normal -> Suck in with CC activation] (does this transcript make sense to any of you? It doesn't to me, but the translation is accurate.)
*This setup gives you a way to use both setups 1 and 2 and is much more useful than those two, but I'm too lazy to elaborate further(?? not sure about the last bit about elaborating)
===============================================
That's all. Although I was unsure on some of the additional notes, at least we know how to do them now. I'm too lazy to test them out in Kawaks.
CC that shit
Thanks for that laugh, i still don't quite understand the CC retention (im guessing this is the bounce high glitch right?) so ill just type what i think you have to do then you can tell me if im right or wrong...
Step one: Player 1 does CC and trades hits with Player 2(Dummy)
Step two: After Player 2 recovers he does a reversal normal
Step three: Player 1 activates CC befor Player 2's attack hits you.
So after this i don't understand is what happens after this, can i just make player 2 do a crouching attack then Player 1 counter hits Player 2 and does a combo which makes him bounce (like in their video)?
Step one: Player 1 does CC and trades hits with Player 2(Dummy)
Step two: After Player 2 recovers he does a reversal normal
Step three: Player 1 activates CC befor Player 2's attack hits you.
So after this i don't understand is what happens after this, can i just make player 2 do a crouching attack then Player 1 counter hits Player 2 and does a combo which makes him bounce (like in their video)?
The setup you wrote is right, but I don't think you necessarily have to get a CH on a crouching attack, if I'm understanding this correctly. It might be required to get a CH so try without getting CH and try with CH and do an ender that knocks down.Toxy wrote:Thanks for that laugh, i still don't quite understand the CC retention (im guessing this is the bounce high glitch right?) so ill just type what i think you have to do then you can tell me if im right or wrong...
Step one: Player 1 does CC and trades hits with Player 2(Dummy)
Step two: After Player 2 recovers he does a reversal normal
Step three: Player 1 activates CC befor Player 2's attack hits you.
So after this i don't understand is what happens after this, can i just make player 2 do a crouching attack then Player 1 counter hits Player 2 and does a combo which makes him bounce (like in their video)?
CC that shit
I fiddled around with FinalBurn Alpha and Kawaks the other day and followed these instructions. I couldn't find a frame advance option in FBA, so I did all of them using Kawaks.
Here's the zip of all the vids I got.
http://www.megaupload.com/kr/?d=AFMYG3OG
I didn't do the last backturned glitch setup that requires crouch canceling just because it was too fancy, but I'm now sure that the instructions I got through the translator is legit.
For the CC retention setup, I made Ken (dummy) stick out s.RH before Ryu's sweep to create a counterhit.
Here's the zip of all the vids I got.
http://www.megaupload.com/kr/?d=AFMYG3OG
I didn't do the last backturned glitch setup that requires crouch canceling just because it was too fancy, but I'm now sure that the instructions I got through the translator is legit.
For the CC retention setup, I made Ken (dummy) stick out s.RH before Ryu's sweep to create a counterhit.
CC that shit
I used Camtasia Codec for them, I should've encoded it to a popular format.
So here's a much smaller zip with the same vids encoded in xvid. 7Megs.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=N19R2V5O
What I did to get reversal normal was to input [roundhouse on one frame, and then forward on the next] xN using frame stepping with the game on pause.
So here's a much smaller zip with the same vids encoded in xvid. 7Megs.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=N19R2V5O
What I did to get reversal normal was to input [roundhouse on one frame, and then forward on the next] xN using frame stepping with the game on pause.
CC that shit
Crazy! Great job dude. That explains A LOT!
The next person to make an A2 combo video definately needs to include those three clips as a mini-tutorial. Make it play during the credits or during the intro or as an intermission. I don't care how it's done, but that should be mandatory.
Plus anyone who does that will get their video referenced every time someone makes a new A2 video, cuz there will always be some confused people looking for an explanation.
The next person to make an A2 combo video definately needs to include those three clips as a mini-tutorial. Make it play during the credits or during the intro or as an intermission. I don't care how it's done, but that should be mandatory.
Plus anyone who does that will get their video referenced every time someone makes a new A2 video, cuz there will always be some confused people looking for an explanation.
Kinda late now, but i ran across this cool tutorial video made by DarkOne explaining the most basic scenario: SFZ2 Bug Mode Tutorial.
Btw those KoFUnion guys are hardcore. It's a safe bet that they use emulator tools to make their videos, but every single one of their releases is top notch. If you're ever curious about the combo engine limitations of a specific SNK game, try to find a KoFUnion video for it.
Btw those KoFUnion guys are hardcore. It's a safe bet that they use emulator tools to make their videos, but every single one of their releases is top notch. If you're ever curious about the combo engine limitations of a specific SNK game, try to find a KoFUnion video for it.