SF4 Biweekly TACV Series

[Maj]

Wow, this is really weird. If you trade with Rose's far s.LK, you can still get counterhit bonus. So like, trading lvl1 Focus Attack vs Rose's s.LK puts her in crumple stun. Too bad Seth doesn't have something like that.

[Maj]

Whose genius idea was it to make both Gen's anti-air supers and ultra cause non-knockdown trade hits? Not cool at all.

Also i'm 99% convinced that the 2nd and 4th punches of Fei Long's ultra can not hit airborne opponents at all. Like it's some kind of special coded flag that only allows them to hit when the opponent is grounded. Can't hit Dhalsim limbs, can't hit Cannon Drill, can't hit dashes, nothin'.

Wierd ... looks like Gen's PPP ultra wipes out projectiles. I was trying to interrupt his driveby pose to see if i could add some more hits, but LP Soul Spark disappears without a trace. Also it kinda sucks that his driveby super/ultra cause no hitstun. Otherwise it would be cool to do something like KKK mode c.LK xx HP super (fireball interrupt), more ground hits, KKK mode c.LK, c.LK, antiair ultra.

Doesn't even work as a KO setup cuz the super doesn't cause crumple stun like a jab or anything. Just knocks them hella far away if you trade.

[onReload]

You sure about that? I think I got all 5 of his Ultra hits to connect at various times, but only either 1, 3, and 5, or 2 and 4...but hits 2 and 4 just juggled, no finisher. I think I told you about this...oh well, can't test it right now. You can't just have someone hop over the first hit then land on hit #2 to test it? Or do you mean from something non-standard like, I think I just did varying timings on HK Shienkyaku FADC Ultra until punches 2 and 4 juggled for a 3 hit combo.

Also how do you get Gen's AA super/ultra to trade?

[Maj]

If you get that Fei combo working again, let me know.

It's pretty hard to get Gen's anti-air super to trade. I did it against random Dhalsim air limbs. You have to use the Gen's HK version because it has the least invincibility. But Dhalsim just wobbles in the air for a while then lands on his feet. Or you can use something with invincibility frames. I got Gen's anti-air ultra to trade with Sagat's EX Tiger Uppercut once. They gotta be standing pretty far apart and Sagat uppercut has to go under Gen, so you execute it after ultrafreeze.

[onReload]

Weird, I thought it was a pure command grab. I'll test the Fei Long thing a bit later.

[Pokey86]

Doopliss tested Fei longs Ultra quite strictly, & from what i recall he to was unable to hit the 2nd & 4th punches on an aerial opponent


Bare in mind these are the 2 hits that initiate the auto combo section of his ultra.

[Maj]

So i had this crazy idea for Fei Long. I was gonna do like j.HK, c.LK -> s.LP -> c.LP -> far s.LK and have that last s.LK kill the opponent as a Sonic Boom or something hits Fei Long to trade. I was gonna buffer his ultra input into the frame before the s.LK connected, hoping that SF4's ridiculously fat reversal window would make Fei do reversal ultra after the KO. If spaced right, first hit would whiff and second hit would catch them out of crumple stun, leading to full ultra animation. But sadly, doesn't work. SF4's reversal window is big but not that big.

Also tried with with a simple trade using Fei's s.LK or s.LP against someone else's light attack. But yeah, impact freeze plus hitstun takes too long. It might be possible if there was an attack in the game with under 10 frames of hitstop+hitstun, but even light attacks cause 13 frame hitstun.

[Doopliss]

What about Gen's super?

[Maj]

That causes a fair amount of hitstun too. Looks like approximately 27-29 frames of hitstop+hitstun, counting through that one Abel combo i did.

Ryu/Akuma EX Hurricane Kick looks somewhat promising but they're always airborne so it's not even worth examining. I even tried trading with Abel's final K rekka, but turns out that causes a lot of hitstun too.

[error1]

most jumping light attacks cause 11 frames of hit stun, juggling works different after ko right? so can you get the full thing that way?
You might try it with Dudley's rose, but that thing looks like it gives at least a jabs worth of hit stun
Single hits of no knockdown Ex fireballs tend to cause less then the normal 22 hitstun right? Might be able to do something with Seth FADCing so just the first fireball comes out, at best it's still going to be around 16 frames.
Might try seths lightning legs, the first hit is throw like so it might cause close to no hitstun
Can you do it with Akuma? He can ultra cancel any normal on hit right?

[Maj]

Yeah already tried it it with a jumping light attack, but that's the same problem. We'd need something that not only causes less than 10 frames of hitstun, but also causes almost no hitstop. That's what brings jumping light attacks all the way up to 19 or whatever. Fireballs are out of the question because they cause way too much hitstun in addition to i think a fierce attack's worth of hitstop.

As for juggling after KO, no you get nothing if you hit them out of the air with a normal move. Even if you did, the 2nd/4th hits of Fei's ultra would whiff because you can't even get them to juggle after an anti-air lvl3 Focus Attack. Crumple stun is basically the only way.

Haven't tried Seth's lightning legs, but it looks like it causes at least a medium attack's worth of hitstun.

And you mean cancel Akuma's light attack into ultra? Yeah Doopliss did that a long time ago.

[Doopliss]

I should really re-record that ^^'

Seth can't FADC EX SB until after the 2nd SB, btw.

[Maj]

Haha but then it would lose its ghettofabulous OG charm.

Man i can't believe Gen's upkick causes damage scaling for every hit. Seriously wtf Capcom? It's basically a combo ender. The only thing you can do after is antiair super/ultra and it's really hard to time. What the hell were they afraid of?

I gotta say, Gen is a very limited character. What's the best Gen combo out there so far?

[Doopliss]

Haha but then it would lose its ghettofabulous OG charm.

Man i can't believe Gen's upkick causes damage scaling for every hit. Seriously wtf Capcom? It's basically a combo ender. The only thing you can do after is antiair super/ultra and it's really hard to time. What the hell were they afraid of?

I gotta say, Gen is a very limited character. What's the best Gen combo out there so far?

Links with s.MP/s.MK and Hand FADCs, I'd say. See if you can combo into Oga somehow.

[Maj]

Hahaha come on now, you know me. What are the chances i wouldn't try to combo into Oga? You can do it against Dhalsim by pushing him in the corner then having him dash twice toward you, then take a step back and whiff vertical j.LP so Gen can hit it with c.LK and cancel into Oga toward the corner, then hold D to get the near dive. But it doesn't seem to create an extra juggle state and either way they fall down fast.

I meant like, what's the most number of hits anyone's seen Gen do? Because i tried looking for Gen combovids but all i could find were individual clips and over 50% of them were duplicates of the same P super, upkicks, KKK ultra combo.

[Doopliss]

It's probably something like:

Shakudan -> (c.LP (x2?) xx HP Hands -> s.MP xx HP hands xx FADC)x2 ->s.MP xx HP hands xx HP hands.

[Pokey86]

Best you'd get with a typical combo would be


Air Target -> MP -> HP -> Hands -> MK -> Hands -> FADC -> MP -> HP -> Hands -> MK -> Hands -> FADC -> MP -> HP -> Hands -> MK -> Hands -> Maybe MK

& if you're really lucky & you pray & you counterhit it might cause Stun on Seth, but i don't know. best i could do with him was the Air Target -> MP -> Hands-> MK -> Super -> Gekiro -> Ultra.

I'm pretty sure you should be able to generate a 5th bar though, what with all those normals.

[Maj]

I doubt it - too many moves before first meter usage. You're already down to 30% reduction by the time you FADC, so it's pretty much hopeless.

I don't know, Gen's got some interesting links but most of his combos end up fairly short. That's not necessarily a bad thing, as long as nobody was hoping to see fifty hit combos.

[error1]

I think you do need a large hands combo, I've seen yeb do a 20 hitter in a match before so I expect you to top that.

Just doing as many hp-> hands as you can do is probably the best you can get stun wise

Seth can't FADC EX SB until after the 2nd SB, btw.

Strange, I was pretty sure I've done that, I'll have to double check.

[Maj]

Eh, might give it a shot but i'm not all that interested in combos that show no creativity, especially since nobody can point to a specific combo to top, either. I've already got one of those long "trial and error" combos with Fei Long. Should be enough for one vid if i decide to skip Gen's mashfest.

So Gen has a theoretical combo of PPP-style c.MK, s.LP -> c.LP, s.MP but it doesn't seem to work on anyone. There's no way to modify it either, since s.LP is the only thing that links from c.MK, and you need c.LP to link into s.MP cuz nothing else gives enough frame advantage. It's hard to believe how much useless shit Gen has. Literally half his moves serve no purpose.

[error1]

Strange, I was pretty sure I've done that, I'll have to double check.

I was wrong, was thinking of Gouken

Is it possible to do a kara hands? Or any mash move for that matter? I tried every input I could think of but couldn't mange to get it out
edit: yes it is, I figured out what I was doing wrong

[Maj]

Did you guys know you can cancel LP Yoga Flame into FADC/super without the flame part even coming out? Totally useless but it does make Sim rock out a little bit. It's pretty easy to do if you buffer Yoga Flame into backdash. But yeah, it still has a hitbox even though there's no flame, so you can't whiff cancel it at point blank range.

[Doopliss]

Yep, I knew that. You can do the same thing with Gief's far s.LK. Looks like you cancel the start-up, but if youre too close, it will connect.

[onReload]

Did you guys know you can cancel LP Yoga Flame into FADC/super without the flame part even coming out? Totally useless but it does make Sim rock out a little bit. It's pretty easy to do if you buffer Yoga Flame into backdash. But yeah, it still has a hitbox even though there's no flame, so you can't whiff cancel it at point blank range.

it looks even funnier with yoga blast...mainly 'cause he looks up then leans forward. if you do LK Yoga Blast FADC quickly enough, it makes both "ex" sounds at the same time, which is cool. if you ever wanted to burn meter with Dhalsim (ha!) it would be a fun way.

[Tigre III]

Gen has been explored in 99% i think. Like Pokey86 says, that combo (with a geriko or EX geriko inside to a Ultra) can be one of the best Gen combos...
You can try to connect the cHP (crane) into Super (mantis), but isnt new
You can make a variation in the usuall hands->MP using a cHK or cHP to end (more stun) but isnt new
You can FADC the last frames of EX Jyasen to continue the combo but isnt new
You can cancel the first hit of Jyasen to Super (crane) but...
You can "parry" but...
I love Gen, but I dont know what more can be showed...

[Tigre III]

mmm I didnt know that Guile can make jHP->LP->HP->LP->HP. I like it
And If you launch a LP sonic boom after a for example cHK, against Zangief you can hit with farHK and then the whiffed SB connects... I dont know if that is useful.

[Maj]

Oh, it's not that bad. I already know pretty much how every combo is gonna look. Gen has a few interesting things still. If i get a little lucky, you might enjoy the end result after all.

[Tigre III]

If you finally make a vid with Gen, im sure will enjoy it! You always surprises me, Maj.

[Maj]

Haha thanks.

Man, i really need a better counterhit trade setup for Seth. Fireball hitstun takes too long. I think Gen could actually kill Seth if you could combo counterhit KKK-style c.HP (trade), HP super, PPP ultra, but Gen doesn't recover fast enough to combo that super after trading with a Sonic Boom. There isn't even enough time to do s.MK which is 1 frame faster.

Although ... looking at the frame data, it might be possible to just do counterhit meaty KKK:c.HP, HP super. Hmm ...

[Doopliss]

You could use teleport to set it up? Or maybe EX Hyakuretsukyaku? It has some invincibility.