Doopliss wrote:It's probably some weird flag.
Maybe samepropperty as Kens EX SRK JP 1 Reset, as in it hits up to JP whatever (in this case 3) but doesn't raise the counter,
SF4 Biweekly TACV Series
Re: SF4 Biweekly TACV Series
Maybe samepropperty as Kens EX SRK JP 1 Reset, as in it hits up to JP whatever (in this case 3) but doesn't raise the counter,
Re: SF4 Biweekly TACV Series
Every hit causes standard knockdown, I can say that much. If first hit is removed, it still causes JP 1. I guess the second hit has SKR or something, IF JP is 0 when it hits.Pokey86 wrote:Doopliss wrote:It's probably some weird flag.
Maybe samepropperty as Kens EX SRK JP 1 Reset, as in it hits up to JP whatever (in this case 3) but doesn't raise the counter,
Re: SF4 Biweekly TACV Series
I gotta be honest, i hate these terms. Why is "SKR" necessary? Just say it doesn't increment the juggle counter. There's a hundred different ways that idea could be phrased which would be waaay more obvious and intuitive than "standard knockdown reset."
Anyway whatever, so we're saying the second hit doesn't increase the juggle counter but only if JC is 0? I'm assuming you're saying that to explain why you can do EX red FB followed by another EX red FB and the last hit of the second one whiffs.
So how would we test that?
Anyway whatever, so we're saying the second hit doesn't increase the juggle counter but only if JC is 0? I'm assuming you're saying that to explain why you can do EX red FB followed by another EX red FB and the last hit of the second one whiffs.
So how would we test that?
Re: SF4 Biweekly TACV Series
I mean, if JP is 0 after the first hit, the second hit is also 0. Then the third hit goes up to 1. Then, on the 2nd shakunetsu, first hit brings it to 2, second hit brings it to 3, 3rd hit whiffs.Maj wrote:I gotta be honest, i hate these terms. Why is "SKR" necessary? Just say it doesn't increment the juggle counter. There's a hundred different ways that idea could be phrased which would be waaay more obvious and intuitive than "standard knockdown reset."
Anyway whatever, so we're saying the second hit doesn't increase the juggle counter but only if JC is 0? I'm assuming you're saying that to explain why you can do EX red FB followed by another EX red FB and the last hit of the second one whiffs.
So how would we test that?
LP SRK -> 3 hit HP Shaku.
HP SRK -> 2 hit HP Shaku.
EX SRK -> 1 hit HP Shaku.
It all works.
Re: SF4 Biweekly TACV Series
Yeah that logic works internally, but so did the "first causes float knockdown" theory. How do we verify it externally?
Re: SF4 Biweekly TACV Series
I can't think of another solution, because:
Both 1st, 2nd and 3rd hit causes 0 JP standard knockdown on hits.
2nd and 3rd hit together causes JP 1.
Both 1st, 2nd and 3rd hit causes 0 JP standard knockdown on hits.
2nd and 3rd hit together causes JP 1.
Re: SF4 Biweekly TACV Series
Looks like you're right. Dhalsim can do Yoga Catastrophe from full screen distance then dash forward twice, and Akuma can do EX red FB so that the first two hits connect but the third gets nullified, and he can still juggle with one hit of HK Hurricane Kick.
HK Hurricane Kick whiffs if Akuma does MP red FB xx FADC, HK Hurricane Kick so that second EX red FB hit must be special.
HK Hurricane Kick whiffs if Akuma does MP red FB xx FADC, HK Hurricane Kick so that second EX red FB hit must be special.
Re: SF4 Biweekly TACV Series
Ok. Good to know.
Re: SF4 Biweekly TACV Series
Next question is, how do we know if the second hit of HP/EX red FB acts special only when it's the first juggle hit to connect?
If Akuma does meaty LP red FB xx FADC, EX red FB, HP DP, that HP DP whiffs. But that doesn't tell us anything because LP red FB knocks down and EX red FB raises JC to either 2 (if the 2nd hit doesn't count) or 3 (if the 2nd hit does count). Either way, HP DP would whiff because it only has 2 JP.
If Akuma does meaty LP red FB xx FADC, EX red FB, HP red FB, that HP red FB hits once. Now this doesn't add up. If EX red FB raises JC to 3 and HP red FB is only supposed to have 3 JP, then it should whiff. Why does it hit once?
Here are the possibilities:
1) LP red FB knocks down, EX red FB raises JC to 3, and HP red FB juggles because it has higher JP than we think.
2) LP red FB knocks down, EX red FB raises JC to 2, then HP red FB juggles once because it has 3 JP.
edit: Just to verify that that LP red FB isn't somehow screwing with the results, i tested with EX regular FB and LP DP xx FADC and both starters produced the same end results.
If Akuma does meaty LP red FB xx FADC, EX red FB, HP DP, that HP DP whiffs. But that doesn't tell us anything because LP red FB knocks down and EX red FB raises JC to either 2 (if the 2nd hit doesn't count) or 3 (if the 2nd hit does count). Either way, HP DP would whiff because it only has 2 JP.
If Akuma does meaty LP red FB xx FADC, EX red FB, HP red FB, that HP red FB hits once. Now this doesn't add up. If EX red FB raises JC to 3 and HP red FB is only supposed to have 3 JP, then it should whiff. Why does it hit once?
Here are the possibilities:
1) LP red FB knocks down, EX red FB raises JC to 3, and HP red FB juggles because it has higher JP than we think.
2) LP red FB knocks down, EX red FB raises JC to 2, then HP red FB juggles once because it has 3 JP.
edit: Just to verify that that LP red FB isn't somehow screwing with the results, i tested with EX regular FB and LP DP xx FADC and both starters produced the same end results.
Re: SF4 Biweekly TACV Series
Testing further, if Akuma does EX DP (two hits) xx FADC, HP red FB, the EX DP knocks down on the first hit then raises JC to 1, then the HP red FB only hits twice. So assuming we're right about the 2nd hit of HP/EX red FB being special, this seems to be the point where it stops being special: when it connects after JC is already at 2 or more.
In other words, the 2nd hit of HP/EX red FB can only raise JC from 2 to 3. It can't raise JC from 0 to 1, or from 1 to 2. However, it can act as a standard knockdown, so if you nullify the first hit of HP/EX red FB, then the 2nd hit knocks down and the 3rd hit raises JC to 1.
In other words, the 2nd hit of HP/EX red FB can only raise JC from 2 to 3. It can't raise JC from 0 to 1, or from 1 to 2. However, it can act as a standard knockdown, so if you nullify the first hit of HP/EX red FB, then the 2nd hit knocks down and the 3rd hit raises JC to 1.
Re: SF4 Biweekly TACV Series
Try doing LP SRK xx FADC -> EX Shakunetsu x2.
Re: SF4 Biweekly TACV Series
Yeah, same thing as
Now the only thing i want to see is HP/EX red FB whiff completely. I don't think i've ever seen that and there's a slim chance that first hit actually has infinite JP which would screw with some of our conclusions.Maj wrote:i tested with EX regular FB and LP DP xx FADC and both starters produced the same end results.
Re: SF4 Biweekly TACV Series
LP SRK -> EX Shaku -> 1 hit EX Shaku: 0... 1, 1, 2... 3. It has to be.
EX Shaku -> 2 hit EX Shaku. 0, 0, 1... 2, 3
So I guess you're right. It can only raise 2 to 3.
EX Shaku -> 2 hit EX Shaku. 0, 0, 1... 2, 3
So I guess you're right. It can only raise 2 to 3.
Re: SF4 Biweekly TACV Series
I tested all the hits of the hp and ex red fireball and can confirm that none of them give a free juggle setup. It may be like ken's hp srk tho and only provide a free juggle when your opponent is in air real
Re: SF4 Biweekly TACV Series
It's not float knockdown, I think we can be sure about that by now.
Re: SF4 Biweekly TACV Series
Well Maj, if you want to try some new things with Akuma, you can try some stuff that I was trying to include in our vid, but finally I gave up...
For example, if you make a stun (it works nice if you use EX tatsu for the final hit stun), its possible to launch a FB , that FB whiff the opponent (the FB pass over him), and you can do Px3 DP, hit the stun opponent with a HP or with you think works better, and that hit can be combo with the FB... I can remember that with the Ultra, if you can do it fast (you can!) not connect, but push the knockdown opponent to the correct position to combo with the whiffed FB... I dont know if I have explained good...
Another thing that I dont know if its a very common set up (sorry if its an usual set up, I start to make combos for SFIV too late, I havent seen all the combo vids) is that after a Focus hit, you can make an air tatsu. Maybe a diferent way to start if you want to make a similar combo like our combo against Abel.
And that is a stun combo that its not a brutal or new fantastic combo, but i was trying and trying to record and finally I desist. Like in the combo against Boxer in our vid, I think that its possible to make jHP->farHK->HP->FB->FADC->farHK->HP->FB->FADC->farHK->HP->LK tatsu->LP DP. The stun power of that combo (better using a counter hit) should be enough to stun Sagat without using the "long as fuck" combos with the farHK->LP combos... Maybe you can use it to avoid duplicate some combo parts...
For example, if you make a stun (it works nice if you use EX tatsu for the final hit stun), its possible to launch a FB , that FB whiff the opponent (the FB pass over him), and you can do Px3 DP, hit the stun opponent with a HP or with you think works better, and that hit can be combo with the FB... I can remember that with the Ultra, if you can do it fast (you can!) not connect, but push the knockdown opponent to the correct position to combo with the whiffed FB... I dont know if I have explained good...
Another thing that I dont know if its a very common set up (sorry if its an usual set up, I start to make combos for SFIV too late, I havent seen all the combo vids) is that after a Focus hit, you can make an air tatsu. Maybe a diferent way to start if you want to make a similar combo like our combo against Abel.
And that is a stun combo that its not a brutal or new fantastic combo, but i was trying and trying to record and finally I desist. Like in the combo against Boxer in our vid, I think that its possible to make jHP->farHK->HP->FB->FADC->farHK->HP->FB->FADC->farHK->HP->LK tatsu->LP DP. The stun power of that combo (better using a counter hit) should be enough to stun Sagat without using the "long as fuck" combos with the farHK->LP combos... Maybe you can use it to avoid duplicate some combo parts...
Re: SF4 Biweekly TACV Series
Just to be sure, i also tested Akuma HP red FB (one hit) xx FADC vs Rose EX FB, Akuma HP DP which only hit twice. If you time it right, Akuma's fireball will hit Rose before her fireball comes out, then it nullifies the remaining two hits of Akuma's. 100% not float.Doopliss wrote:It's not float knockdown, I think we can be sure about that by now.
So dizzy them, then throw LP FB from full screen away, F+PPP teleport toward them, then cancel s.HP into ultra demon to push them back into the fireball? Sounds really cool. Can you combo after the FB connects? I might give it a shot if i have time. Only problem is i'm racing against SSF4 now.Tigre III wrote:For example, if you make a stun (it works nice if you use EX tatsu for the final hit stun), its possible to launch a FB , that FB whiff the opponent (the FB pass over him), and you can do Px3 DP, hit the stun opponent with a HP or with you think works better, and that hit can be combo with the FB... I can remember that with the Ultra, if you can do it fast (you can!) not connect, but push the knockdown opponent to the correct position to combo with the whiffed FB...
Unfortunately i don't think LP air FB, lvl2 Focus Attack xx dash forward, air Hurricane Kick works, at least not against Seth. Anyway i don't know which way i'll go in the end, but for now i still like the way the full screen Hurricane Kick looks better.Another thing that I dont know if its a very common set up (sorry if its an usual set up, I start to make combos for SFIV too late, I havent seen all the combo vids) is that after a Focus hit, you can make an air tatsu. Maybe a diferent way to start if you want to make a similar combo like our combo against Abel.
That's true, but i think it's better if i do the long boring combo, because at least that way it adds up to a big number. Maybe i can even get in the 90-range. I don't know, we'll see. Thanks for your suggestions though.Maybe you can use it to avoid duplicate some combo parts...
Re: SF4 Biweekly TACV Series
mmmm air FB and then Focus level 2 dont work. You can use a lot of movements to combo with a far airFB, like a demon flip HP (whiff)or simply a HK tatsu but with the lvl2 Focus... An option its to make the set up with the air FB (pass over the opponent) and HK cancel Focus lvl2.Its not a common set up. I think that with airFB, you need always EX air FB to connect a focus after, too bad.
I was testing some properties of trading the jHP of Seth against EX tatsu. I dont know if after its possible to connect something.
You re right with the Sagat combo, if you can do a 90 hit combo, do it, its the better way to make a nice combo.
I was testing some properties of trading the jHP of Seth against EX tatsu. I dont know if after its possible to connect something.
You re right with the Sagat combo, if you can do a 90 hit combo, do it, its the better way to make a nice combo.
Re: SF4 Biweekly TACV Series
LP air FB into lvl2 Focus Attack definitely works. You just have to make the FB hit their toes. But they fall over faster after lvl2 FA than lvl3 FA, so you can't connect air Hurricane Kick fast enough before they become flat.
Re: SF4 Biweekly TACV Series
Maj wrote:LP air FB into lvl2 Focus Attack definitely works. You just have to make the FB hit their toes. But they fall over faster after lvl2 FA than lvl3 FA, so you can't connect air Hurricane Kick fast enough before they become flat.
Yeah it certainly is, i did it against Gen, just a LP fireball, it's actually quite easy, should have no problem with TACV?
That souns pretty cool, bit skeptical as to whether it works though, i don't recall moves having long enough hit stun to ride out the whole of a Raging Demon. Though i might be mistakenFor example, if you make a stun (it works nice if you use EX tatsu for the final hit stun), its possible to launch a FB , that FB whiff the opponent (the FB pass over him), and you can do Px3 DP, hit the stun opponent with a HP or with you think works better, and that hit can be combo with the FB... I can remember that with the Ultra, if you can do it fast (you can!) not connect, but push the knockdown opponent to the correct position to combo with the whiffed FB...
So is this the stats we're presuming here? & i think people are getting a touch confused with the terminology so i need some clarification... Are we calling standard knockdown JP0 (Kichs's style) or JP1All this HP Shaku business
Anyway
In terms of what it does: Sorry about the way this is worded, just so we don't get confused in the abyss baseless of terminology here.
For reference, these result in: LP SRK = Standard knockdown / Full HP SRK = Standard knockdown + 1 / EX SRK = Standard knockdown + 2
Attacks below HIT ON (& not more than)
LP Shaku = Standard knockdown + 1
MP Shaku = Standard Knockdown + 2
MP shaku = Standard Knockdown + 2
HP Shaku = Standard knockdown + 3
HP Shaku = Standard knockdown + 3
HP Shaku = Standard knockdown + 3
2nd hit of HP Shaku (& i would presume EX to)
On standing enemy, causes standard knockdown... [Tested by having the opp focus the first hit then doing HP SRK]
On standard knockdown... Does not raise the counter [Test by doing EX Shaku x 2 or HP shaku -> FADC -> EX shaku (Hits twice)]
On Standard knockdown + 1...Does not Raise the counter [Tested by doing LP SRK -> HP Shaku -> FADC -> EX Shaku (Hits once)]
Not sure how to test any higher than that if you get the enemy to focus your first Shaku? How many times will the second shaku hit? If it hits full we can rule out this very peculiar flag property situation. But by the sounds of it, it seems to be the only real logical conclusion.
Question is, do it's propperties change when it hits an enemy in air state... With all other moves there is no change between how a move acts in regards to whether they get hit during a jump or during float/Standard knockdown. (so long as they have the juggle potential to hit of course) So all i can think of is. Is it possible to Shaku through a standard fireball & then catch someone during a jump... Then tag them with a second HP/EX Shaku? This should confirm whether its increase of the juggle counter is due to the enemy being in an airborne state (standard knockdown) after the first hit.
Alternatively... is it possible to Air EX Tatsu -> HP/EX shaku?
Re: SF4 Biweekly TACV Series
I'm quite sure it's not possible, I tried for quite some time. And I got it to work with 1-hit air EX tatsu, so hitbox-wise, it's possible.Pokey86 wrote:Alternatively... is it possible to Air EX Tatsu -> HP/EX shaku?
Re: SF4 Biweekly TACV Series
LP air FB??? LOL Maj I assumed you wanted a FULL SCREEN FB, then some type of approach and Focus Lvl 2... Then you only can connect air tatsu with a lvl 3 FA? too bad.Maj wrote:LP air FB into lvl2 Focus Attack definitely works. You just have to make the FB hit their toes. But they fall over faster after lvl2 FA than lvl3 FA, so you can't connect air Hurricane Kick fast enough before they become flat.
mmm Pokey86, reading my post now, I think that the explanation of that combo is very bad. The Px3 DP and the Ultra arent in the same combo; there are 2 different possibilities to connect with the FB. Sorry for my poor english guys
And, only for curiosity, how many air EX FB you can connect? My limit is 3; you still can follow a combo after 3, but I cannot connect 4... Its possible to connect 4?
Re: SF4 Biweekly TACV Series
I've seen four against Blanka before. That video also happens to be my least favorite (non-ghetto) SF4 combo video to date. They include literally every single variation they can think of and over 95% of them are boring as fuck.
Re: SF4 Biweekly TACV Series
Maj wrote:I've seen four against Blanka before. That video also happens to be my least favorite (non-ghetto) SF4 combo video to date. They include literally every single variation they can think of and over 95% of them are boring as fuck.
Yeah i'm not to fond when people flog LP -> HP -> Tatsu -> SRK &then LP -> MP -> Tatsu -> SRK,as two different combos... i try to at least vary my combos, that's why i'd probably never do a single character combo video.
& they stated that's not tool assisted, i know people are capable of crazy things... but that seems unlikely to me, Akuma has probably the hardest Fireball -> FA crumple, not to mention they're pulling shit off i'd dream of doing at such a succes rate... I could be wrong though.
Re: SF4 Biweekly TACV Series
wow, I didnt know that this video exist... And it seems its old... I have duplicated some combos of that vid, or some parts... Too bad, i need to see too much stuff of this game. Thats the result of start with a new engine for me too late 
... Well, I will start from zero with SSFIV, like everyone. I hope not do the same!...
The four EX FB are great, like all the rest of the vid. Maybe too long. Not tool assist? Well, Im agree with Pokey86, Akuma is one of the hardest characters to work with, but if he says that...
... Well, I will start from zero with SSFIV, like everyone. I hope not do the same!...The four EX FB are great, like all the rest of the vid. Maybe too long. Not tool assist? Well, Im agree with Pokey86, Akuma is one of the hardest characters to work with, but if he says that...
Re: SF4 Biweekly TACV Series
I can't believe there's no way to do a sixth chickenwing with Fei Long against Abel. You can only combo HK chickenwing off counterhit s.HP and then you can't get close s.HP to combo after s.LP anymore, not even if you walk forward for one frame before hitting s.LP then walk forward another frame before pressing s.HP - you still get the far s.HP version.
counterhit s.HP xx HK chickenwing, s.HP xx EX chickenwing x4 gives you 1040 stun, which is 10 away from Abel's 1050 cap. So you can dizzy with a medium/hard attack or you can combo s.LP xx whatever. The only halfway cool thing left to do is link s.LP into flame kick.
counterhit s.HP xx HK chickenwing, s.HP xx EX chickenwing x4 gives you 1040 stun, which is 10 away from Abel's 1050 cap. So you can dizzy with a medium/hard attack or you can combo s.LP xx whatever. The only halfway cool thing left to do is link s.LP into flame kick.
Re: SF4 Biweekly TACV Series
Can't you simply do HK CW, s.HP xx EX CW x4, s.HP xx LK CW ?
Re: SF4 Biweekly TACV Series
Yeah but that's only 993 stun (with counterhit). Adding a (traded) lvl3 Focus Attack to the front of that adds one more hit but lowers the total stun to 865.
Re: SF4 Biweekly TACV Series
So you want a stun combo? Afraid I can't help you then
Re: SF4 Biweekly TACV Series
It's okay, looks like the numbers work out better against Seth. He's a better combo dummy for Fei Long anyway.