SF4 Unblockable Projectile/Superfreeze Setups

[Xenozip.]

(@henaki) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QNt-0d5p24

Oh god.

[Xenozip.]

(@henaki) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QNt-0d5p24

Oh god.

^ Apparently this is working with Sagat, Seth, and Rose.

Ryu EX DP doesn't escape this. Ken EX DP does. Gouki can prolly teleport. Also you have to input the escape maneuver BEFORE ultra flash, you can't react. That makes Seth's safe and Rose's a beat-all (except teleport) and in any case they can bait you into an escape and rail you anyway.

[Maj]

Does it have to do with the throw or something? I'm pretty sure i've tested that meaty projectile/superfreeze setup before and it was blocked. Then again maybe i just screwed up the timing, cuz i wasn't that interested in it.

Also, the Japanese word for "Refilll" is "Infinity"?

[Xenozip.]

I'm not sure, a lot of people are testing this right now and confirming it to be legit unblockable. Can't FA backdash to avoid it. Also add Ken to the list of chars that can do this.

You need: 1) untechable move that knocks them on their back 2) a fireball that will be meaty on wakeup 3) an ultra that connects before hitstun from fireball ends.

[error1]

I suspected something like this might be possible with superfreeze. Because the projectile and the opponent are still moving but no new inputs allowed. I never would have guessed it would work with ultra. Can dhalsim, rose, and seth all do it without using super meter?

[Doopliss]

I don't get it.

[Xenozip.]

Ok, this isn't that big of a deal with Sagat. If you wakeup crouch block it's still an unblockable fireball, but his ultra will just whiff right over your crouching hitbox. Also you can EX DP with Ryu to escape it after all so even if he's in a position where Ultra will hit a crouching Ryu you can still escape with EX DP.

I need to find a setup with Rose because the Sagat one is looking to be about useless to me.

[Maj]

To be honest, i'm not even sure how superfreeze and ultrafreeze work in SF4. You can clearly see things moving during superfreeze, but not really during ultrafreeze. I think that might be part of the issue, because this isn't possible using supers right?

You basically need frame-perfect timing (or at least a frame-perfect setup) for this to work, right? I mean you have to land the ultrafreeze on their first wakeup frame for the fireball to be unblockable?

I don't know, this is weird. I remember testing this core concept a long time ago at jchensor's house using SFA1 and it worked, though we just did a basic non-meaty setup using Charlie's LP Sonic Boom from full screen away, then triggering superfreeze right before it hit Bison and it turned out Bison couldn't block the fireball after superfreeze. I've done similar things in CvS2 as well.

[Doopliss]

I get it now btw. I was thinking about some kind of setup with Seth, for unblockable super (if that's also possible). c.HK -> whiff some attack (with good total frames), LP SB xx LP Super.

Does this only work with Akuma, Ryu and ken btw?

[Xenozip.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMn3rswLDa4

^ showing it whiffing vs crouch.

[Maj]

Does this only work with Akuma, Ryu and ken btw?

Nah i don't think it matters who the dummy character is, but you probably have to account for different rising animations. Some characters get up really weird and automatically avoid a lot of meaty attacks, or at least noticeably throw off the timing.

[Doopliss]

I know Blanka rises slower than other characters. And I believe Gen too?

[Smileymike101]

Whats the Rose one?Also talking of unblockables, it's wierd that if you da Yoga catastrophe, Fa LEVEL 3!! while the opponent is still in blockstun, he will block the UNBLOCKABLE focus attack.WTF?

[Doopliss]

lol haxx. Can't believe I haven't tried that already.

[Xenozip.]

New development http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OISGTddWu4

If you don't block until after flash, you can block it. It's the same inputs because it's the dummy recording so... I think Sagat's setup is not that big of a deal. I'm pretty sure you can just-defend it and that's that. Of course everyone else's unblockable might actually be legit, but this Sagat one is looking like trash. Midscreen Ryu can: EX DP, get hit low, or just-defend (wait till flash before blocking).

[Xenozip.]

Another development: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSxTKIPHPO0

Against Rose's setup you can't block before or after flash. So it's just Sagat's setup that is garbage (block after flash or crouch will avoid it), but Rose's is almost legit. Unfortunately against Rose's you can just backdash and eat the fireball, making her waste two stocks and/or an ultra stock for a fireballs worth of damage.

I'm guessing this means the only legit ones are going to be ones that are done in the corner, where wakeup backdash avoids the fireball but not the ultra.

[Doopliss]

What about Seth's backthrow -> MP SB -> Ultra? If it works well, it can be really useful as a mix up/reset after a long stun combo. if a reversal is the only way out of it, then it's 50/50 if they try to block the SB, or try to reversal it. if they try to block, the unblockable will beat it. If they do a reversal, I can simply wait before I do ultra.

[Xenozip.]

Cross-posting:

Well the backdash video I posted used LP-Spark, and the Spark is what tags Ryu out of the air making the ultra whiff.

So I tested with MP-Spark. Looks like if he backdashes then the MP spark will whiff entirely, meaning the Ultra will catch Ryu out of his backdash.

But there's another problem, the MP-Spark setup only seems to hit if Ryu blocks low, if he high blocks the Spark doesn't hit. I wasn't able to create a situation where it would hit him if he high blocks, the timing is just too strict for it to work consistently. It may be 100% consistent against wider characters, but it's too difficult to do against Ryu IMO.

Regarding Seth, Jinrai broke his down entirely already: http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=230101

[Doopliss]

Ok, so the guaranteed characters are Guile, Sakura and Sagat. Cammy, Rufus, Dan, Gen and Abel are guaranteed without super meter. I guess you can try it against anyone though. That is, if you're willing to risk your ultra.

[Xenozip.]

Risking Ultra against the characters that can backdash doesn't seem wise. Then again it does at least force them to eat a boom's worth of damage whether you Ultra or not.

Rose on the other hand, her LP-Spark version is pretty worthless since they can backdash on reaction to your FADC, effectively making you waste two bars of super meter. The MP-Spark version might be more useful against wide-bodied characters though.

I need to do further testing with Ken/Sagat but my hype is slowly dying already after finding out Rose's can be backdashed.

[Doopliss]

mY hype is rising, I might even be able to use this in my game. I already hit backthrow -> MP SB -> Ultra like 20% of the time.

[Xenozip.]

Yeah thinking about it, since Seth doesn't need FADC his is really the best.

Rose and Sagat I think can't really use this if the opponent can react to your FADC. And on that note, I assume it's the same for Ken, but I haven't tested his at all. I just think if you have to FADC and the FADC is reactable then it's not such a strong tactic. But for Seth though it's a really strong gimmick I think.

[Doopliss]

My main problem with Seth is getting damage after stun because of the scaling, so this is perfect.

[error1]

has anyone tried to reversal focus attack into a backdash? Seems like it might stop the inatal hit and possibly avoid the ultra with gen's focus cancel

[Xenozip.]

Yeah I tried that against Sagat's setup and the focus worked but the backdash failed. Ultra tags them out of backdash. I assume it wouldn't work against Ken or Rose either for the same reason.

But yeah Gen might be able to do that. And maybe you could armor cancel with other characters. Then again anyone with a teleport can get out. But against Seth you're still dealing with him baiting escape attempts for free.

[Xenozip.]

Gief can just lariat right through Rose's unblockable, color me not surprised. I couldn't land the MP-Spark version on him at all, hmm... who's the widest char in the game?

[Xenozip.]

=edit= false alarm, my bad.

Ok so I tested Sagat's MK-Short setup a bit more. The LK-Shot setup allows him to crouch. However the MK-Shot setup does not allow Ryu to crouch so if Ryu is holding back or downback it becomes unblockable and he eats the full ultra. However, in either case Ryu is still able to block after the flash. I don't really know why, he just can. This is not true for Rose's setup since it hits during freeze, so you can never block Rose's version if it's done right (before or after flash it can't be blocked).

[Xenozip.]

I did a quite write up http://xenozipnotes.blogspot.com/2010/0 ... ables.html

Basically Sagat's can be blocked after the flash, you just can't be blocking pre-flash. That occurs with lk-shot or mk-shot. Can't backdash either setup, but Ryu can MP-DP.

Rose's works different, it hits during flash so Ryu gets hit regardless of when he attempts to block. But he can backdash and eat the LP-Spark. With MP-Spark the spark whiffs standing/standblock Ryu but will hit crouching/crouch-block Ryu, and if he backdashes the MP-Spark whiffs and Ultra grabs him.

That's all I know for now, gunna test Seth and Ken some.

[Xenozip.]

OK I did further testing on Seth's. With his SPD setup it works exactly like Sagat's, basically if Ryu is blocking pre-flash he will be hit. If Ryu does not block pre-flash he can block post-flash.

Meanwhile Seth's backthrow setup works exactly like Roses but better. Ryu can't block pre or post flash, he also can't backdash AFAIK. In fact the only way to escape it with Ryu is EX DP. But Seth is safe if Ryu does EX DP since they recover at about the same time, and Seth can also not do ultra and just bait escape attempts for free. Regardless, if Ryu has no meter he's fucked.

[Mienaikage]

I've been doing a little experimenting with Ken's version.

It only seems to work on Sagat, Cammy and Blanka. Blanka has the slowest wakeup, Sagat and Cammy (lol) have the same amount of wakeup time, which happens to be the same amount of time Ken can execute all of his moves (I think, I haven't managed to do the Ultra too early against Sagat yet). Everyone else wakes up faster (but I don't know how much faster)

Sagat can't escape damage unless he uses MK Super or Ultra. The only 2 things that will avoid the full Ultra are focus the fireball to backdash, or EX uppercut, but the upward motion of the Ultra will still catch Sagat.

Cammy, unlike Sagat, can focus the fireball and then backdash to safety. EX Spin Knuckle will also get you out for free. Backdash you'll eat the fireball and the Ultra will whiff. HK Cannon Spike you'll eat the fake Ultra. Every other move will have you eating the full Ultra.

EDIT: OK this is extremely odd, Cammy's wakeup time is slower if you wakeup standing rather than crouching, so I couldn't block low, but I could block high O.o (the inputs were recorded on the dummy, so the timing of Ken's setup was identical)

EDIT 2: Same with Seth, standing wakeup is slower than crouching wakeup. Same recording with Ken. Fireball hits too early when I crouch block as Seth but is unblockable with standing block.