Got any Questions about SFA, A2, Z2A, A3, A3U, or HSFA?

[Dammit]

It happens that I've been developing a Lua tool that computes frame data automatically, if that's what you want.

http://lua.pastey.net/138261-d45m
Basically you save it as text, edit that game line to be sfa3, then load it from the file menu of FBA-rr. Then when you attack P2 it'll try and find the first frame when each player can jump and show the difference. You can press numpad+ to show recovery times instead of frame anvantage.

It will take some retries due to FBA being a crashy piece of crap.
And if the attacker or dummy recovers crouching, recovery is one less than shown because of the extra time to stand up before jumping.

It'll take some getting used to but might save you some time.

in some games some characters take extra hitstun for no reason (e.g. Gill in 2I iirc)

That's weird.

[Buttermaker]

LP/LK

Code: Select all

Health  Boost
144-65 	 0
64-0      +1

MP/MK

Code: Select all

Health  Boost
144-97     0
96-65     +1
64-33     +2
32-1      +3
0         +4

HP/HK

Code: Select all

Health  Boost	
144-113    0
112-81    +1
80-49     +2
48-17     +3
16-1      +4
0         +5

[Dammit]

That's interesting.
There's a similar reduction based on the target's lifebar right?

And no randomness?

[Buttermaker]

Yes, damage reduction starts at 48 health points.

I've never seen any randomness.

Specials and supers have damage boosts as well, but these are the only ones I've looked at.

Ryu's Dragon Punch

Code: Select all

Health  Boost	
144-113    0
112-81    +1
80-49	  +2
48-33     +3
32-1      +4
0         +5

Ryu's regular Fireball

Code: Select all

Health  Boost
144-97     0
96-65     +1
64-17     +2
16-0      +3

[Rithli]

Zero 2 -> Zero 2 Alpha Hitboxes

I got a hold of the "All About Street Fighter Zero 2 Alpha" book. I took some shots of the hitbox change comparisons (from vanilla Zero2/Alpha2 to Zero2Alpha) that were included. It seems like they only did this for characters that actually had drastic hitbox changes. The only thing of this nature that I haven't included in this set yet are Charlie/Nash's changes. Now you can see the real reason why A2 Chun Li players cried rivers and shunned this particular version.

[Ultima]

Hah. I've had that book for years. The biggest WTF is why did Adon, of all characters, have the most changes, almost all for the worse?

In fact, a lot of the changes didn't make any sense. Chun-li got off fairly easily, cause she's still top tier, just not as stupid as in SFA2. Ken, Ryu, Rose mostly got very minor tweaks outside of generally CC dmg reduction (and didn't Ken actually get another cancelable normal - c.s.HK - as his only notable change?). Meanwhile, Adon, Rolento, Gen, Gief, CHarlie and a bunch of other characters all got hi much worse.

[Dammit]

In 443's combo mania, Gen takes massive damage from super throws during kkk c.hp. Is there some trick to this?

[phoenix]

I just wanted to know if, perchance, anyone knew if the Alpha games had "levels" like SF2/SFIV, or was all over the place like CvS2.

Aside from calculating useful cancels, I really just wanted to calculate hit/block advantage for Alpha's attacks like I can for most of SF2, since that data seems to not exist otherwise.

Lucky you! I was just looking into this the other day.

Alpha2 has universal hitstun on 3 levels (at least for the normals)
Light attacks do 14 frames of hitstun
Medium attacks do 18 frames of hitstun
Hard attacks do 23 frames of hitstun

Also hitstop is universal. I have not looked at specials yet, or at blockstun.

What is really fascinating though that not just hitstun is universal, also knockback is universal. Or so it seems, I've only checked this with Ryu's st.lp and st.lk:
Frame 0: no knockback yet
Frame 1: 6 pixels knockback
Frame 2: 5 pixels knockback
Frame 3: 4 pixels knockback
Frame 4: 4 pixels knockback
Frame 5: 3 pixels knockback
Frame 6: 2 pixels knockback
Frame 7: 2 pixels knockback
Frame 8: 1 pixels knockback
Frame 9: 1 pixels knockback
Frame 10: 1 pixels knockback
Frame 11: 1 pixels knockback
Frame 12: 0 pixels knockback
Frame 13: 0 pixels knockback

There's lot's more to be researched on this, which I didn't take the time for. Perhaps you can do that

[Maj]

In 443's combo mania, Gen takes massive damage from super throws during kkk c.hp. Is there some trick to this?

Maybe it's version-specific? I've never seen anyone do that in the arcade version.

Lucky you! I was just looking into this the other day.

Nice! Good job sir.

[phoenix]

So, because I hope to make a nice page of framedata on Alpha2 someday, I went ahead and figured out the stun values. I figured people in here would be interested.

• Light attacks: 14 frames hitstun, 13 frames blockstun, 10 frames hitstop

• Medium attacks: 19 frames hitstun, 18 frames blockstun, 12 frames hitstop

• Heavy attack: 24 frames hitstun, 22 frames blockstun, 14 frames hitstop

• Command normal: 14 frames hitstun, 13 frames blockstun, 12 frames hitstop (Rose d/f+MK, Ryu f+MK tested)

• Command overheads: Variable, Adon & Ryu's are like medium attacks. Sakura's f+MK does 12 frames of hitstop but 24 frames of hitstun, 22 frames of blockstun like a heavy attack.

• Jump light attacks: 15 frames hitstun, 14 frames blockstun, 7 frames hitstop

• Jump medium attacks: 15 frames hitstun, 14 frames blockstun, 9 frames hitstop

• Jump hard attacks: 15 frames hitstun, 14 frames blockstun, 11 frames hitstop

• Specials: 24 frames of hitstun, 22 frames of blockstun, variable hitstop

[Maj]

Nice job sir. It's always good to have more info like this.

Hm, i doubt that command normal values are standardized though. What move did you use to test special move numbers? Those aren't standardized for sure. For example Ryu's HP Shoryuken causes 13-14 hitstop while Adon's HK Jaguar Kick causes only 6-7 hitstop.

[phoenix]

Nice job sir. It's always good to have more info like this.

Hm, i doubt that command normal values are standardized though. What move did you use to test special move numbers? Those aren't standardized for sure. For example Ryu's HP Shoryuken causes 13-14 hitstop while Adon's HK Jaguar Kick causes only 6-7 hitstop.

Yeah, I felt I had to look at that more too. All of Rose's special moves have 4 frames of hitstop it seems. I guess it's safe to say that hitstop on special moves is variable then. There might be some underlying system, but it's hard to find. It seems though, that fireballs do universally have 4 frames of hitstop.

Maybe I should add that these values are all based on the game on Normal game speed. Else the numbers would be inconsistent. Despite the game being played at Turbo 2, it's easiest to work with non-turbo numbers of course.

[Maj]

Yeah i tested under Normal speed too, but the numbers still seemed to vary by 1 frame. Not sure what to make of it.

[phoenix]

Yeah i tested under Normal speed too, but the numbers still seemed to vary by 1 frame. Not sure what to make of it.

I had a look at ryu's HP shoryu. It's 15 frames of hitstop every time. Not sure what method you used to count it, but the method I used gives a reliable image. I open up the hitbox viewer, check how long a hitbox is active on whiff (in case of HP shoryu, first hitbox is active for 4 frames), then I count the amount of frames it is active on hit (in case of HP shoryu, first hitbox remains active for 19 frames). 19-4= 15 extra frames when hitting, so 15 frames of hitstop. It is slightly confusing, as the opponent does not get knocked back the first frame after hitstop, which might have influenced your count.

[Ultima]

phoenix:

Hey thanks! I haven't gotten a chance to check sh/f for a while. Haven't had much time for anything really, between work, classes, wife+daughter+other-kid-on-the-way. But I'm glad to learn this info!

I suspect A1 is similar to A2 in the way that the hit/block stun levels work, so I'll keep those values in mind when going over SFA frame data. But I have a feeling SFA3 is completely different.

re: Gen

I think I can answer this: Gens' KKK c.HP is a double-edged sword attack: On counterhit, it does massive damage (like 250% damage I think), but if HE is CH out of it, HE ends up taking massive damage instead.

[phoenix]

So to test the hitstuns I calculated I decided to go check out if I can get combos to work that frame data predicts.

Rose's cr.mp is startup: 4, active: 7 recovery: 6. It's a medium attack so does 19 frames of hitstun. If you hit on first frame, there's 12 frames of the move afterward 19=12=+7. So the move is +7 on hit. Therefore cr.mp should easily link into itself (a 3 frame link).

Turns out, it isn't easy to link at all! With the macrolua script I tried to do the combo, and it only works on one specific frame, it's a 1 frame link. What is going on here?

Turns out after every move after the move has "recovered" the player is in 2 frames of additional recovery. After crouch attacks it's the crouch animation, after standing attacks it's the standing animation.

This 'state' cannot be canceled in any way it seems, so it's effectively 2 frames of additional recovery for every single move.

Odd huh? It seems like they wanted to avoid easy links at all costs.

[onReload]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p_pAQU-pzU

first thing i found when searching for "alpha 3 max combos", since 'zero 3 upper combos' returned nothing. is much of this stuff possible in regular A3? and as for the CvS2 imports, how much different are they?

[Keiko]

Yes, and the vast mayority of the combos showcased in the video are techable.
It's a shame that nobody make a video showing some Maki/Eagle/Yun/Ingrid VC's, they have some substantial and interesting stuff to make a movie with it.
And you gotta love Yun Throw OTG's...they just look very cool.

[Maj]

I have that game but i don't have a PSP : (

Isn't it supposed to have some weird tag-team mode or something?

[Keiko]

I play the game a lot when my best friend borrow me his PSP, and yes, the game have this "new" Dramatic Battle that i never played it.

[onReload]

Yeah and while GameFAQs has a bit about ISM-Pluses (like air chains, more guard damage, etc) that you get from certain World Tour objectives, there seems to be some I-Ism or something? Is it basically like EX Groove, where you unlock the groove, and then you unlock the individual modifiers?

Really wish they would put this on PS2 already...I still haven't tried World Tour! Also, I got the Naomi Bios and subsequently Zero 3 Upper to run on my MAME Plus and uh...yeah, it's quite laggy. I think I played one match and it took 6 minutes. Also, took me awhile to realize that Guile only has Sonic Hurricane and Somersault Strike...Total Wipeout woulda helped quite a bit IMO

[Keiko]

In the world tour mode (featured in PSX port only and MAX) you can level up your character throught different missions and unlock new ISM features like Chain Combos, Super Cancels, infinite guard gauge etc etc etc, it's pretty funny.
If you wanna play Z3 Upper i suggest you to use Makaron Naomi emulator, it works perfect, Mame sucks.

[Doopliss]

Any reason why Rose's j.HP during soul illusion can do more than 1 hit in SFA:WD? I did j.HP x2, s.HP for 17 hits...

[Maj]

That game's got all kinds of random behavior during simultaneous hits. I don't think it's ever been explained beyond that. I've seen zerokoubou do that with Bison though.

[error1]

I noticed it when I did this combo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XoFVuujEqU#t=4m19s
if you notice the j.hp after the first dizzy does 6 hits instead of the normal 3, and that's just the shadows hitting
I don't think it's a simultaneous hits thing tho because I don't think simultaneous hits can increment the combo counter in sfa
the j.hp after the second dizzy only registers 2 hits because they connect during super freeze

[Doopliss]

Btw, I just realized that Ken can do kara Hadokens in SFA:WD by pressing "QCF, neutral, MK~P".

[error1]

in the sfa games you get meter for whiffing normal moves and so kara canceling gives you more meter, so you should basically always kara cancel raw special moves when you can, it's hard with Sagat tho.

[Dark_Chaotix]

Is Cody Lvl3 super (where he does like a heap of light punches), is that a "poke" at their own game being Final Fight in how to do the infinite? Was that intended or coincidence?

[error1]

it's an intended reference

[Dark_Chaotix]

Ah nice, i only just realised that haha.