This explains the odd behavior in desk’s SSF4 CMV No. 5 posted three days ago. Interesting …
notes:
Apparently SSF4 Guile’s standard turnaround animation causes him to move slightly, which turns into wobble-movement when repeated quickly. That’s what desk used to set up some of those fireball-chasing combos.
gameplay and editing by desk
soundtrack: Project Dolphin – Mikado Dreamtime (MDRemix)
released today, September 23rd, 2010
related projects:
SSF4 CMV No. 5 by desk
Um, not to be a hater, but wouldn’t this technically qualify as tool-assitance?
Well, I guess not in actual performance of the combos themselves. Also, why the hell would you even try this?!
The reason i bring it up is because there’s a lot of advanced things you can do with the Training Mode Record/Playback feature that would literally take me hours to reproduce with a programmable controller.
For instance you can record Honda doing j.MK, s.LP xx Headbutt, then play it back as you move under him to make the j.MK into a crossup. He’ll still complete the combo during playback because he’ll switch charge directions automatically.
I mean how is that not tool-assistance? Finding those direction switch points is difficult even with a program pad.
Just curious what you guys think before i label it one way or the other.
I’m just confused about the hater comment. I didn’t see anything about this not being a tool-assisted video or anything.
Using the training record option is kinda like using easy mode in super turbo revival IMO. You manually execute it, you just use something the game offers to help. I would call it tool assisted, in this case the tool is the record option.
Oh, i’m referring to where it says “All of the combos in this video were performed by hand without tool-assistance” in SSF4 CMV No. 5.
The other problem is that this glitch had no effect on any of the combos. It was just for show, with the exception of Guile’s movement of course – but he probably could’ve done the same thing just by having him backdash repeatedly.
Ha, I appreciate your fairness Maj. Though this isn’t tool assisted in the traditional sense you are making something happen that’s impossible by hand, so the label ‘tool-assisted’ for the glitch and this video, is fair enough. Though, I might argue that ‘training mode only’ is equally valid. As, anyone with the game can do it by just jumping into training mode.
Okay, i’ll label this one “tool-assisted” and leave the CMV as it is, only because the glitch didn’t have any impact on the combos performed. If anyone is confused by that in the future, hopefully reading these comments will clear it up.
Just to add, speaking to error and trying some more dummy stuff myself. I don’t think this is possible outside of training mode at all. Right now I don’t think the game actually does input down for 1 frame, neutral for 1 frame and then repeats. The record feature itself just has some really strange quirks that cause this to happen. Does that make a difference in your eyes? I think it would be an exploit or glitch if that proves to be the case and I’m not certain that I would say that it was tool assisted at all.
I don’t want to make it complicated for you though dude, I know you have to tag stuff, lol. Just wouldn’t mind putting things straight.
Hm, yeah if it’s not possible at all normally and only happens with Training Mode Record/Playback, then i would view it as a pure glitch rather than tool-assistance.
So what do you guys think is causing this strange behavior?
Well, for some reason you can record the dummy pressing forward (or back) for the same amount of time as the crouch and the dummy just walks, however, if you hold it for a single frame longer, then the dummy will dash instead. Again, if you hold any direction for a few seconds and play it back you’ll see the neutral frame at which point the dummy repeats the input. It would seem that you can input something so quickly that it overlaps the neutral frame, this would explain why it doesn’t dash when pressing forward and doesn’t simply crouch in place when pressing down.
I can only assume that it is reading both ‘neutral’ and a direction at the same time. I’ve even been able to get the dummy to perform an action that never repeats, no matter how long you leave it idle. Only happens again when coming out of the pause menu.
This might all be wrong of course. Can you get your PPad to do one frame on/one frame off at 60fps Maj? Or do you know anyone else I can rope into testing? :)
Oh Maj, when I said “Also, why the hell would you even try this?!”, I wasn’t talking about the tool assisted classification, but it was kind of more directed at desk like, why would you even think about making the dummy crouch for one frame?
How are you guys counting those frame numbers? Because i would think that if you recorded 1 frame of F and had it repeating, then it would simply turn into holding F continuously. That’s what happens if i program F (1-frame), F (1-frame) … It simply becomes holding F.
I tried having my program pad do D, neutral, D, neutral … for 1-frame each, and it seems to have the same basic effect as in your video. Characters keep facing the same way when i jump over them, and the turnaround wobble-movement thing happens if i jump over Guile.
Visually, it looks different on my screen though. I have an S-Video capture card and it’s a constant interlaced blur where it looks like the character is trying to stand and crouch every other frame.
Anyway i got the Guile thing to happen consistently in Versus Mode so it’s definitely not Training Mode only.
The thing is, i think my program pads are less precise than your Record/Playback method, because my characters actually get to deep crouch in about 3-4 seconds. That’s about how long Guile’s movement lasts and then he freezes in place. And it takes two or three superfreezes (with Sagat’s Angry Scar) to reset him.
My script was d..d..d..etc and wasn’t nearly as quick as I could get with the dummy record. I’m at 60fps refresh and it looks exactly like in desks video, with the only quick up and down movement happening after a superfreeze.
should look like this
http://www.filefront.com/17315790/sf4 backwords glitch.mp4
but I couldn’t even get the guile thing to work with autoit
Ah, cool. If it’s exactly the same then it can’t be training mode only. Thanks for trying it out dude.
Just in case anyone thinks I’m mental and was jumping to conclusions. You can get the training dummy to do one action (eg. st. strong) and then absolutely nothing else, no matter how long you leave them idle. Then if you go into and out of the training menu it will do that one action again but never repeat it. Plus, I have no explanation for being able to record it walking (not dashing) by holding forward and yet I can never get it to just crouch by holding down, it always does the weird crouch thing. Thought there might be more to it.
Okay you’ve convinced me. I’ll leave the manual/tool-assisted tag blank since we don’t fully know what’s going on here.
Personally my theory was that frame-perfect D tapping causes the character to get stuck on one specific intermediate frame of crouching. So when you jump over Guile, he gets stuck in the turnaround frame indefinitely and his movement is continuous. Then superfreeze eliminates one of those neutral frames (or a D frame) and the character’s state gets closer to crouching or turning around or whatever.
My program pads aren’t perfect, so it screws up every so many frames. That’s why Guile stops wobble-moving after 3-4 seconds and gets stuck, because eventually he gets to full crouch. Then he’s oscillating between fully crouched and trying to get up, which is a more “stable” state than fully standing and trying to crouch.
But i only have subjective observations to justify any of this, so it’s safe to say i’m just guessing. If you guys find more info, please continue to share it here. Normally i’m not a big fan of breaking games via impossible/abnormal input abuse but now you’ve got me curious to see how this ends.
I was trying this a little bit in Vanilla, and since error mentioned a script, I’m guessing it works in that version as well? I got Ken to crouch/neutral really quickly most of the time, sometimes, I’d hold down, unpause/pause and the character would just be neutral, and sometimes, the quick crouch/neutral thing would cause them to stay facing the same direction, even though they weren’t in that weird laggy state you got them in.